To: Lvl 40 + Minstrels

[old.chesnor]

I agree Torin. I havn't managed to group with many spiritmasters, but those that I have played with have been awesome in a group. Sadly, they are a dull class to play (at least I thought so when I took one to lvl15), and are not particularly great in RvR. The problem Midgard has (and other realms I guess) is that the user base is now aware of which chars rock in RvR. This is the endgame for most people, so in midgard the frontiers are filling up with skalds, hunters etc..The classes which are painful to play in RvR are becoming much less common in PvE ( healers, as a classic example )

Basically, the RP system atm is biased towards those classes that can solo RvR great (either stealth OR speed) and discriminates against those classes that can't solo effectively (like my healer with zero offense whatsoever, apart from non-speccable hammer and a laughably poor self dmg add buff)

 

[Insurrextion]

bah minstrels aren't a danger to you cause you're a damn healer insta-stun + insta-mez + 2 insta-heals to save your ass

don't really know about SMs ... gathered that they were quite gimped from the posts on the US forums, as are shamans and wardens

 

[old.chesnor]

The instas healers have are all on timers. With all my instas up I am not easy to take down by almost any class, but without them I am a sitting duck......Sadly, as these instas are my most powerful tool, they are rarely all up. With no offense and no or only some instas I get wasted pretty quick.

 

[Zill]

I still believe Minstrels need to lose one of their attributes, Stealth remains my personal choice and declare them a Fighter class as opposed to a Rogue one. Skalds and Bards don't get Stealth, so why should Minstrels? I appreciate they're a fun class to play and there are no rules to rvr, but nothing will change my mind to the fact Minstrels are unfairly unbalanced to other classes. At least if I hit someone the enemy has a chance to escape or even kill me if I fail to execute my best moves correctly.

 

[Khalen]

I know you it is sometimes pretty hard playing a healer in RvR. But what I can remember from beta was that I made so many friends that those friends let me in their teams for RvRing (they could always use a healer) and that way I got a lor of RvR points by doing almost nothing Sometimes when I was close I healed my m8s and if I couldn't get close I could ress them anyway l8er on. Furthermore I healed all the members who came back from the fields so they would be ready with full HP when a counter attack was made

Ok I don't get much of the action that way, but think about 200 people bashing into each other.. the lag is enormous then so you won't do anything there anyway.. Then I'd rather stay back, heal my m8s and get free points.. And furthermore I see 2 kinds of Clerics (taking albion chars for instance) 1 who is good in buffs, healing and 2 a good smiter. I gave the healer RvR action before. A smiter would be more something like a caster. Saves his mana for his own spells and doesn't do any much healing (so he/she can saves his mana for smites, which he rather uses for personal gain then to help others.. In my eyes a cleric is a person who helps other especially.. but that is my opinion about clerics).

I'm playing my good old cleric again and gonna lvl that one to lvl 50 also I think (after my armsman is lvl 50). Most points going in rejuvenation and enchancements. Sure a little bit in smite for the 2nd area damage spell but not gonna spec further in it..

Furthermore a lot of classes aren't working very well against other classes. Like I could be mezzed by a runemaster and then get nuked to death, I could be debuffed like a wussie and get spanked by a champion, I could be critically shot by a ranger/hunter and get killed, I could get slammed by a hero(shield) and get killed, etc. etc. etc. Most people who get caught are usually alone or far lower lvl then the minstrel. The balance is not found in a class alone it is found in the entire class structure for a realm.. at least this is how I see it.

 

[Shaki/Aeis]

Originally posted by tilde
Many classes are very unbalanced, so is the game. Remove mez COMPLETELY from the game imo, unless u want a distance-rvr or "the one who mezz's first wins". Because, sadly its like that now, and i dont like camping pk's either. Atleast i go back to wall and wait

What will the midgard healer do if their mezz and stun is gone in RvR? stand and ress/heal only?
If the mez is removed completely and the healer get nothing else in return there wont be many midguardian healers left.

 

[old.chesnor]

Originally posted by Khalen
I know you it is sometimes pretty hard playing a healer in RvR. But what I can remember from beta was that I made so many friends that those friends let me in their teams for RvRing (they could always use a healer) and that way I got a lor of RvR points by doing almost nothing Sometimes when I was close I healed my m8s and if I couldn't get close I could ress them anyway l8er on. Furthermore I healed all the members who came back from the fields so they would be ready with full HP when a counter attack was made

Presumably you enjoyed playing a mobile field hospital sooo much in beta you decided to create an armsman and cleric in retail

I just think when you look at the skillset a minstrel or cleric has, then compare that to a healer, its is clearly we need some loving ( I don't neccessarily think Minstrels or clerics need whipping with the nerf stick). Sure you get various encounters during RvR which leave you munching dirt, but remember....Healers get no offence. Just nice mezz (soon to be nerfed), useless (for RvR anyway) healing, poor buffs and the ability to res (and remember, high level shammys are like rocking horse poo in midgard, leaving healers to do most of the ressing).

 

[old.Pooky]

Zilly Stealth is the class defining attribute of a minstrel.
Skalds damage output puts ours to shame, Bards can heal, rez, single mez, One Minute Ten Second AoE Mez now tell me thats a fair spell lol?
Without stealth a minstrel is a gimped skald.

Sure we have more options to escape, but due to the plethora of crowd control spells in this game its still damn hard. Practicly every class in hibernia has some sort of root/mez/stun or ranegd attack which interups run song/stealth. My main form of escape is stealth not speed, so I escape probly only as often as your average scout or hunter does.
At the moment some Root spells arnt on timers, I dont know if this is a bug or intented but Runemasters and a hib mage class (dunno which) can repeatedly root you over and over without a timer. Making it hard to escape

 

[old.Finster]

midgard players, hail your healers. only times battles even against _massively_ outnumbering middies go against me and my lot is when Liv or Xanatea stop me dead in my tracks with instamez. otherwise the PB AoE mez going off between all these tightly packed skalds and thanes would doom them.

true. sklads have a good single target instamez as well, although most of them somehow seem not aware of this.

spiritmasters are by now way underpowered. Ruk is one worthy opponent dishing out mez and root and nuking for decent dmg.

minstrels are pretty much solitary hunterkillers, chaotic and brilliant. things get real ugly when they team a small group. they are uber, as they are the only class with speed+stealth giving them unlimited mobility. add mez, dd and somewhat decent melee ability and they re the bane of any loner or medlevel group.

 

[Pfy]

Originally posted by Pooky
... main form of escape is stealth not speed, so I escape probly only as often as your average scout or hunter does ...

True, the amount of times I've shot someone and had to make a quick sprint and stealth are countless ... although, I usually end up running over some stealthed assasin type, or into an aggro mob, damned F11!

 

[Riddler]

Originally posted by Insurrextion
- our shouts take a HUGE amount of pow AND endurance to cast compared to other classes with shout spells ... usually after about 5 shouts my pow bar is empty and end bar is 1/2 empty

and u really think we have it any easier?, usually when i encounter enemies in rvr, i first instamez, use like 10-30% of my mana, depends on con on target (usually red/purp), then 2dds and i got a new one at lvl 34 which takes extreme ammounts of mana, then i change quickbar to turn my battlechant song on, back to 1st bar and snare if they run (now im usually out of mana and only 30% end left) ...yeah we really have it easier eh?

- they can use 2 songs like dmg chant & speed AND they don't require an instrument to do that (i think)

no, we can only have one song active at a time like minstrel and bard, either speed, dmg-chant or rest-chant

- have u ever SEEN a minstrel's interface? it's not a pretty sight

yes, played one in beta, and yes, its ugly

 

[Riddler]

Originally posted by Finster
true. sklads have a good single target instamez as well, although most of them somehow seem not aware of this.

those not aware of that are either very low lvl and new to skald or fools

its been a great tool helping me to rank 2 at my lowish 34lvl's

and now i wont rvr again until im atleast 40

 

[old.Saen]

Minstrels are a fairly well rounded class with lots of abilities none of which they do exceptionally well. Really once they sort Charm I think minstrels will be a complete class eg they do all the things they are supposed to but are not greatly overpowered - clerics are another near complete class IMHO

All the classes through the realms are not the same and nor were they meant to be.

The bard and skald may have the same songs but the bard is more of a healer type - the skald more of a fighter - the minst is the rogue type with stealth

1v1 stealth is great of course it is if you play a caster and wander around on your own expect some stealther to kill you and btw we had about 1 month of Teza sat in the trees outside our PK do dont be complainin Certain classes can solo in RvR certain classes cant thats the way it is if you need a group form one and I guarentee minstrels wont come near you - scouts and infils are another story

Oh and btw the minstrel interface is horrible - I use 3 full hotbars and I need to use all 3 during an attack.

Saen

PS - try /send sonya and co to come back from our milegate to kill the stealthers at PK

 

[old.Lythande]

Originally posted by Khalen
Like I could be mezzed by a runemaster and then get nuked to death.

Ehm, no. RMs don't get mezz, we get a singletarget root. Have you tried to save your ass by trying to root 15 furious enemies steaming toward you by casting a singletarget root? I have, it doesn't work


Lythande lvl 42 Runemaster <Angeli Mortis>

 

[old.krane]

Actually there is a good combo with which u can solo a yellow con fighter as well with a minstrel...but it HAS TO be done perfectly in order to do it..

1. Start mezzing from stealth
2. 2 DD shouts while mezz is landing (before mezz landed, very important not to brake)
3. wait for DD to recharge
4. /kiss to troll
4. Use the DDs again AND the Stun shout
5. get the remaining Hps with mellee with a few Amethyst slashes (100-200 dmg per hit)
6. /dance with the dead troll

Another thing...

Getting killed by a goddamn caster from almost 1 (!!) nuke (820 dmg by tylar) is NOT balanced in my opinion..
And ffs...i couldnt disturb his casting cause he actually casted his root quicker than my 2.5 sec weapon..that sux..

 

[old.Stix]

rofl Insurrextion.

Mythic want realm equivalency, so yes, comparing a minstrel to a bard isn't really fair.

However, suggesting that a class that possesses the three most powerful and important abilities in the game is not overpowered, but that others need 'fixing', is a bit of a joke. Speed, stealth and mez = uber, as Finster says.

e.g Cleric smite is also unbalanced - my option would be to reduce its damage; would yours be to 'fix' all the other classes by doubling their HP?

And yes, tilde, I also think that all mez should have been removed from rvr (though that will never happen). In any case, upcoming patches will drastically reduce the power of mez.

Stealth is also way too powerful.

 

[old.XanateA]

Only been killed by assassins once...

and one time by mallus.. but she was red so it does not count..
No assassin yellow/orange can beat me in melee

I aint no gimp
usually always kill yellow minstrels 1on1 in melee aswell even tho they have DDs

 

[old.Saen]

Stix you could just as easily say speed + stealth + range is uber step forward all you Hunters and Rangers.

Each class works well and appears uber in certain situations (with some exceptions) - some of these situations are easier to manufacture which is why some classes seem better.

This game will come down to grouping as more n more people obtain the higher lvls and leave lvl'n for more RvR. Hopefully this is where the realm balance will come into play.

Saen

 

[old.Pooky]

bah stix If were gonna compare to other unbalanced classes then you have to look at the archer. From a rvr pov the most unbalanced class imo.
Gonna be sweet days for all you archers when realm abilites come into effect. With your 100s of thousands of easily gained rp/rank.

If it pleases you us minstrels do have some nerfs coming to us in 1.50 not that we deserve them tho

 

[Feldegast]

Im with the healers out there, when the mezz gets nerfed what do we have left...

I have no instas (by that I mean stun, insta mezz, root, snare) , 1 crappy DD shout, notes of death, no armor (rf ;/), evade 2 (only class with rf or equal that dont get evade 3 in the patch) so I guess that I try to land that 3 sec AoE Mezz to get 5 of the 15 invaders who rushes me as I am lit up like a beacon (atleast if I want to help my group mates the slightest bit)

I WANT SOME DEFENCE!

Counter Idea from lots of U im certain: U have speed U can get away.. Well what fun is that, lets go RvR;ing then U can run away when the battle starts.
If I even want a chance to do some use Im dead about the time when the first mezz lands..

Are ministrels the only class who get stealth and plate (or equal) ?

And also the classes with insta mez in Hib are 1 (Mentalist due to quickcast) Insta stun most (mages) get, but nothing as showstopping as an pbaoe stun/mezz... insane

Also I really hope they (mythic) gice confuse another use then killing of Theurg pets with cause that sux..

 

[Danya]

Minstrels get chain not plate. Plate is 34% absorb bad vs crushing, chain is 27% absorb bad vs thrusting. Yes it's the only stealth class with chain, archers have studded (or equiv), assassins have leather.
I'm not sure about in future patches but minstrels currently only get evade 2 and small shields, not exactly wildly defensive...

 

[Goku TheWarrior]

I h8 the stealth+mez combination.
I all so like it when u minstrels mez me then sit down, all tho i dont think alpha will do it again because last time i slammed him sitting down and killed him in 2 hits .

 

[Feldegast]

Ok still that chain and stealth shouldnt be a possible combo from a logical view, try sneaking around wid a chainmail
And ministrels having the same evade and better armor seems a bit strange

Also ministrels and skalds have that little edge I am looking for, and insta stun/mezz of course its no use if its 15 peeps rushing at u. But I know Mythic dont want to give any more classes any insta showstoppers so I hope they come up with something else-

btw:


HEALS WONT BREAK MEZZ, WEEEEeeeeeeeEEEEEEeeeeEEEe

Edit: Lost my point in the first version.. redid it

 

[Subbiz]

The longest rvr scirmish fights are those where there are no mezzing done. (period)

 

[Insurrextion]

Riddler i never said skalds had it any easier did i? i said this was a problem that the minstrels faced, and obviously so do the skalds ... the shouts take a ridiculous amount of pow to cast (55 pow compared to the cleric PBAE mez which costs 28pow for example) AND also cost valuable end too

i thought skalds could have 2 songs running i was wrong at least they dont get those damn swirling notes and they dont need instruments (which are a CHORE to use)

Stix i made no comparison of a minstrel to a bard ... if u call speed + stealth + mez = uber i think speed + stealth + range = more uber

smite clerics arent unbalanced - they sacrifice their rejuv/enhance a lot when they go for the usual 48s/23r/9e template ... yes they get their 2 insta-heals but they can't heal well in PvE and thus are a lot harder to level than rejuv/enhance clerics ... also their loss on higher lvl enhancement buffs mean they lose about 100+hps if u dont like those smite clerics u meet stock up on spirit resist (lots of stuff give that in albion dunno bout middie and hibbie tho) ... toning down dmg a bit would also be a solution (but i can imagine the huge whine by clerics )

we get stealth cause we are rogues and not fighters ... we have rogue damage and hp tables ... stealth is not as useful to us as it is to other rogues (it is not useless but NOT as useful) ... other rogue classes DO have the chance to 1 shot kill AND remain stealthed when they do so ... minstrels have no chance in hell of 1 shotting anyone cept a lvl 15 lurikeen maybe unlike archers meleeing for us is almost a necessity in most battles that's why we get chain to compensate for our average hitpoints ... also keep in mind other rogues have higher evade than us (assasins get evade 7 which means they evade more than 1/3 of the enemies swings)

skalds will beat a minstrel in a duel 1v1 about 80% of the time ... it's probably a 50/50 if the minstrel catches the skald while stealthed ... and you dont hear anyone whining bout overpowered skalds do u? we get stealth & 6 sec insta-stun & a broken charm while they get parry & 30 sec insta-mez & grp dmg chant & they get to choose to use 2h or S/S when they only spec in ONE line ... their 2h weapons do huge amount of dmg (150-250 easy on me) while minstrel's melee abilities are average at best

i'm not saying that minstrels are weak .. we are a balanced and fun class to play and it would be better if they fixed all the damn bugs we are very strong in duels/1v1/small grp encounters but are not very useful in large encounters/stand offs at MFGs ... to those who think minstrels are overpowered go roll on on prywden and see how 'easy' we are to play

 

[Feldegast]

Well fights dont last long at all IMO ever, except in the case of Keeptaking, wich is the fun part.

Open field battles need some tweaking because its the game layout and not the mezzing thats making the battles short.
Well with the new realm abilities battle should be a bit longer I hope

 

[Torin]

As soon 1.50 patch will come to Europe - i will stop playing RvR with my Healer, only will take him to Reids or Guild events.

IMHO Healer can do NOTHING without mezz/stun. If mezz/stun will be SO nerfed healer will have no weapon against others ...
His buffs are worse than Shammies, He is weaker (str) than Troll shammi, he can heal and rezz - thats only what he can do better than shammi, but shammi have Cave also .... pitty.

 

[old.Paranoid]

you all forget that a minstrrel has its down falls, even if a minstrel can mez, its only targeted mezz, we could never solo a tank class of equivlent lvl, our weapons skills are genrally poor, our evade is shit, and our shields are crap...

We have 27% absorb.. you know why... cos we are the only stealthing class that is required to come out of stealth for a long time to do any real ammount of dammage... snipers come shoot and stealth, assasins sometimes dont even unstealth, we are mini tanks, our stealth is genrally for the purpose of hiding on a hill.

 

[tilde]

Torin: thats how a Paladin feels

heal and rez, and crappy hp and dmgoutput - and crappy chants for rvr

 

[Torin]

Originally posted by tilde
Torin: thats how a Paladin feels
heal and rez, and crappy hp and dmgoutput - and crappy chants for rvr

Hehe, Who's talking In Macha usually i see following messages:
XXXX was slained by Tilde
XXXX was slained by Veeshan
XXXX was slained by Jazheira
XXXX was slained by Mallus (havent seen hem for couple of weeks though)
XXXX was slained by SUKA

Basicly that's whom i can remember