To: Goa GM's, about Prydscal cluster change as mentioned in the chronicles.

[Asha]

I don't understand how you guys can say GOA should make the germans play in English. We had two english servers and they are dying. If you MAKE Germans play in English, won't they just go play their other chars on another server? I dunno... seems stupid to punish the Germans because both our English servers failed.

 

[Leahc]

Happy new year all!

What about if we only got clustered with the NF zones of some German servers? That would dramatically increase the action in NF, and maybe, bring some of those trying their luck on US servers back.

Ofc there is drops and quests in NF, but if the "home server" handles this then it wouldnt be much of a problem.

/Leahc

 

[Bahumat]

www.DaocsReallyGonnaDie.com

 

[RS|Phil]

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[Ingafgrinn Macabre]

Ingafgrinn. I'm sorry I didn't reply earlier. I've actually been thinking about this topic and trying to come up with a way of explaining it that doesn't require me to explain in boring detail how the game works.

Thanks for replying that fast and thorough

I didn't have time to check freddy's much last few days, or reply to this thead due to social commitments etc, and can't really atm either, but I'll write something up tonight.

Hope you (and y'all) have had a good NY's eve and still have all digits in the right place

 

[charmangle]

First off, I have to say that I am truly impressed and glad to see your openess and willingness to discuss the issues here. Its the first time I have really gotten the feeling that the customer base gets a good flowing feedback.

I know how strenious it can be to try and answere questions like these on a public forum...what ever you say, the questions will never end, but you create a feeling for us that what we say do matter and for that I for one am happy!

It isn't a simple operation and there are at least as many disadvantages as there are benefits. I know that the combined databases for the game are in the order of several hundred GB at least (or they were when I last asked a couple of years ago) I will admit to not knowing how much of that could be condensed for a client side application.

Considering how long ago the server base code was created, and the desition to make the European servers multilingual, its a fair assumption to make that its a very heavy task to remake it into a client based multilingual game now. In the end you do have to take into account the cost vs the possible benefit.
Im pretty sure that it would have been a simply task to make it a client based multilingual game from scratch, but its hard to think of such things in advance. Especially when its an American based game and not European.

But Its great that you are actually activily working on some brilliant solution to it! That gives me hope...."May the force be with you!" or something roleplaying like that!

Sharkith, you are putting too much weight in conspiracy theories. Firstly there has not been a significant shift in numbers following the TT incident.

I disagree with you here Req. You are probably right when it comes to the general population (which are in my mind about 75% of the population), those who just enjoy PvE, the world, and the occational great large siege RvR event. (my own guild is a very good example of that). They never read the forums, they dont know the ongoings around the RvR scene etc, they just play the game. But even they have noticed the amount of important drop outs latly. Active RvR guilds, Guildmasters and RvR/PvE-bgleaders in general. They ask questions to people who do read the forums.

And in my opinion a vast majority of those feel that the TT case wasnt handled correctly. It was more a matter of principle, rather than the punishment in it self (since ofc, it wasnt very severe). But it is never good to make examples instead of give a warning when it comes to a hobby. And in this case it most certainly wasnt clear cut as you have said yourself, and therefor it would have been better if you had just issued a policy statment about it instead of making it into a presidence.

That is also how many of the more PvE oriented part of the playerbase (the majority I spoke off earlier.) feel when they get an explenation to why there was such a sudden drop in the more RvR active guilds.

So when the cluster was in such fragile state to start with, the TT action did have a noticable affect on the playerbase in my opinion. (but ofc not irreversible!

To allay some concerns:
We aren't going to let Pryd/Excal get to the same point as Glastonbury was at before we move. We are looking into the options that will be available to us when the time comes to act.

And again, you are great in this thread mate! Love the willingness to keep us informed. I disagree with other posters about you beeing vague. I think you are giving us clear policy direction answers, that are very informative and spiritlifting.

You are aware of the situation, you are keeping it under close scrutiny, and you are thinking of solutions. Its great to just know that there are possible solutions to consider!

Since I dont think multilingual clustering is a realistic solution. The german community is healthy and happy, they are also the majority, so there really is no fair way to cluster them with minority english clusters, in any other language than german. And clustering an english server into german language will probably make more people leave than it saves.

Char moving might be good from alread dead servers to declining servers but I doubt that will boost populations, since people either just move chars they like to the server they already play and have chars at, or they move them to high pop servers, which means even lower population on the servers in trouble.

200 people mid week at a traditionally low time is not evidence of a serious issue.

Hmm, Im guessing you have skilled trend analytics at the company, so you have already checked the overal statistics?

Just checking amount of accounts in the frontiers might not really say that much about the situation. There might be 200 albs and no mids or hibs. It might be about 50% of them that are comming from the same IP, that might suggest that half of them are bbs. Etc etc...but as I said above I guess you have already looked at the overall statics with crossover charts with IP, area, realm, activity, and comparison charts from last year or so. And just used it as an example here showing that there are no clear trends atm.

But it sure seems like its a huge change in activity, in mid and hib atleast, over the last 2 months. I think all that play ingame feel the same. It might be an illusion, and we have just gotten less organized, more fragmented and therefor it feels like a big dip in population. But Im sure your charts will tell you the true story in the comming couple of months. Just dont wait to long to react once you do notice a negative trend!

Anyhow, I'm off for the weekend. Have a good new year and I'll see you all in 2007.

Thanks alot again for the informative posts and hope you had yourself a great new years eve!

/Charmangle

 

[Sigidil]

To allay some concerns:
We aren't going to let Pryd/Excal get to the same point as Glastonbury was at before we move. We are looking into the options that will be available to us when the time comes to act.

All I'm doing at the moment is squashing rumours that the English cluster is going to be clustered with a foreign cluster or moved to a different language soon. That absolutely isn't the case, it doesn't mean that we aren't keeping an aye on the situation and formulating plans for the future. All I'm saying is that the rumours going around aren't true.

At the moment there's a normal population dip that we see every year around this time. Despite that, the primetime population is still healthy and we'll keep an eye on it as time goes on.

Looking at the posts, there is a problem on the excal-cluster. Even if you deny it Requiel. Why wait longer and longer and let more people leave... ? Most people that are quitting today is for 1 and the same reason. Population to thin!

Instead of cluster servers that are "in trouble" with people leaving for those reasons, what do you do: .....

Cluster Avalon with Lyonesse!?!?! Why would you cluster 2 of the most populated servers together when prydwen/excal cluster is hanging arround somewhere behind with more people quitting/going avalon each day? I really can't understand that... . It can't be customer-wise thinking tho... .

 

[Bracken]

it would have been better if you had just issued a policy statment about it instead of making it into a presidence.

I agree with this.

However...

Just checking amount of accounts in the frontiers might not really say that much about the situation. There might be 200 albs and no mids or hibs. It might be about 50% of them that are comming from the same IP, that might suggest that half of them are bbs. Etc etc...but as I said above I guess you have already looked at the overall statics with crossover charts with IP, area, realm, activity, and comparison charts from last year or so. And just used it as an example here showing that there are no clear trends atm.

But it sure seems like its a huge change in activity, in mid and hib atleast, over the last 2 months. I think all that play ingame feel the same. It might be an illusion, and we have just gotten less organized, more fragmented and therefor it feels like a big dip in population. But Im sure your charts will tell you the true story in the comming couple of months. Just dont wait to long to react once you do notice a negative trend!

From what I've experienced in game the last few weeks it doesn't feel like there's been a huge change in activity. There has been some reduction in that there are clearly fewer dedicated fg running but in terms of large scale rvr it's no different from 3-6 months ago - if anything there's been more activity. The last few times I've logged on (albeit at prime time for only a few hours) the frontier bg has had 80+ people in, the mids have been out in good numbers while the hibs, albeit low in numbers are still putting out enough to cause problems. That may not be perfect but it really is not much different from say 3-6 months ago.

There are 2 basic arguments being put out at the moment. 1 is that GOA wouldn't admit there is a problem because it would mean they were "wrong". 2 is that many people still playing the server are saying it's still healthy and fun to try and convince themselves that it's so. Much as I hate to disappoint the conspiracy theorists neither is, in my experience atleast, true. The reality from what I've seen at primetime is that the server is still alive and kicking at present although a significant reduction from present levels would cause a problem (which has actually been true for some time). As a result, GOAs line which is that they will monitor the situation is spot on.

 

[Eleasias]

You are deluding yourself into thinking the server is active, sure it might not be dead but its not even half the size of Avalon, and Avalon is getting clustered, the activity levels are just so much different. 330 on UK cluster compared to Ava+Lyo's 1300...

 

[Bracken]

You are deluding yourself into thinking the server is active, sure it might not be dead but its not even half the size of Avalon, and Avalon is getting clustered, the activity levels are just so much different. 330 on UK cluster compared to Ava+Lyo's 1300...

I'm not deluded at all - I've got absolutely no reason to be. I'm pointing out that it's not much different from 3-6 months ago. Not sure where you get 330 from - last few times I've been on (which is all I can talk about) it's been between 500 and 600, with the frontier as I described above. As we speak there are 350 on, and that's in the middle of a week day. Again, not at the same levels as some other servers but enough for there to be plenty going on and really not much different from many months ago. I'm sorry if that doesn't suit you but that is my experience. Of course it might have been different at the times I haven't been on.

 

[Pirkel]

Maybe "active" is a term that means something different to different people? Maybe there isn't a cut off point at which point everybody is bored. Maybe some people will greatly enjoy a server that is "active" with 330 people online and other people will feel a server of 1300 isn't very "active".

 

[Eleasias]

I'm not deluded at all - I've got absolutely no reason to be. I'm pointing out that it's not much different from 3-6 months ago. Not sure where you get 330 from - last few times I've been on (which is all I can talk about) it's been between 500 and 600, with the frontier as I described above. As we speak there are 350 on, and that's in the middle of a week day. Again, not at the same levels as some other servers but enough for there to be plenty going on and really not much different from many months ago. I'm sorry if that doesn't suit you but that is my experience. Of course it might have been different at the times I haven't been on.

The numbers were those that were online when I made the post, but I guess your and mine "plenty going on" is quite different.

 

[Pirkel]

but I guess your and mine "plenty going on" is quite different.

*shock*

*horror*

Holy revelations Batman ...

 

[charmangle]

There are 2 basic arguments being put out at the moment. 1 is that GOA wouldn't admit there is a problem because it would mean they were "wrong". 2 is that many people still playing the server are saying it's still healthy and fun to try and convince themselves that it's so. Much as I hate to disappoint the conspiracy theorists neither is, in my experience atleast, true. The reality from what I've seen at primetime is that the server is still alive and kicking at present although a significant reduction from present levels would cause a problem (which has actually been true for some time). As a result, GOAs line which is that they will monitor the situation is spot on.

Well Im not sure I would put that much significance with the theory from one person, that GoA is deliberatly letting time pass to cover up something. (I do understand his trial of thought, but its a money making company and they do what they think is best for the company at all times. And that is almost always to have the highest possible amount of subs payed per month. And thats what they base their decitions on in my opinion, as they well should too.)

I have never claimed it isnt alive. Its okayish, but thats not what people
really are putting forward. What they are saying is:
"Its dangerously low, and we are afraid that if you keep monotering the situation without taking actions for to long, it might be to late to do any thing about it."

I dont subscribe to this. I agree with Req on this (hey Req thers gotto be a frist time for everything!, there isnt enough clear evidence that the server as a whole is in any crisis. Even though there might be some indications pointing in that direction, its just to early to cry wolf.

Thats for 2 reasons:
First of all, as Req said in an earlier post, when Prydwen dropped in population a year a go or so, there was an easy way of giving us a larger population without any big obvious drawbacks, clustering us with Excalibur. Giving both servers a fun revitilazation.

But there isnt any such easy fix this time around. There are ideas, and Im sure GoA/Mythic are working hard to iron out the kinks in those ideas as we speak. But what ever they come up with is going to make a part of the population really unhappy. (unless they succeed in rewriting the entire source code of the client/server applications to make the language handling client based instead of server, but thats a longshot at this time im betting.)

So rather than going out halfcocked, declaring a crisis, without solid proof and no real solution, they opt to work out something that can be accepted by a majority, and meanwhile they are also establishing the extent of the population problem with statistics, if any. And thats really the only thing we can demand of them at this point.


Regarding the perception ingame of how the population situation is atm, I do not agree with you. You are probably right in what you have observed ofc, but you seem to be looking at it from a way to small perspective. Checking the RvR population is one thing, but you need to check classes out in all realms, realm ranks, amounts of bots, check the change in PvE etc etc etc.

In mid for example, there is a serious problem with getting a group to PL with. Before the summer it was almost always a PL group standing in Moderna from 10.00-02.00 or so. The last 2-3 months I havent managed to logon and find ANY group going at any time. Ofc I might have missed them sometimes, but ALL the time? Same goes for large scale Raids on Mid. Before the summer you had atleast 4-5 different raids a week. Now you have a hard time finding ANY...and those few you find have to cancle out because no one shows up.

Same goes for alliance populations of the different realms. All these facts has to be looked at, and then you can base a decition on weather or not the server is healthy. And in my opinion it is leaning towards, Not Healthy at the moment, but im waiting for the official GoA investigation results before I carve that in stone!

/Charmangle

 

[SkarIronfist]

I don't understand how you guys can say GOA should make the germans play in English. We had two english servers and they are dying. If you MAKE Germans play in English, won't they just go play their other chars on another server? I dunno... seems stupid to punish the Germans because both our English servers failed.

Eh I don't think you quite understand. What we want, what we really really want. Is to be clustered with a German cluster. Where all the text we see from the server is in English (Quests/Mob names/Items/Combat messages etc). Where all the text they see from the server is German (Quests/Mod names/Items/Combat Names)

At the moment if they were to cluster the English clusters with the German clusters. The servers only support 1 lbase language. Now obviously they (GOA) will not go and switch a German cluster to English, and piss off a far larger number of German players than what the English clusters currently have.

Neither can they just switch the English cluster to German, since that would efffectively mean GOA has no English language server. What would be ideal is a multi language setup. Which "currently" is not available.

I hope that clarifys everything. We will get a spike in players when LotM turns up. But the only thing to make the server soar again. Is to offer a vibrant RVR and PVE setup, which we (Excal/Prydwen) no longer have the players to support.

 

[Dafft]

Requiel has probably taken a loooooon weekend off like most UK people >< (lucky sod).

Although clustering with US servers would be ace - it's highly(if not unlikely) not to happen - we'd probably get told due to such and such reasons - it can't happen. (Even if Mythic clusted the Japs servers iirc)

Charcopy would be nice - but with different languages, it's unlikely to happen - in the US all servers are english.........

 

[BloodOmen]

Requiel has probably taken a loooooon weekend off like most UK people >< (lucky sod).

Although clustering with US servers would be ace - it's highly(if not unlikely) not to happen - we'd probably get told due to such and such reasons - it can't happen. (Even if Mythic clusted the Japs servers iirc)

Charcopy would be nice - but with different languages, it's unlikely to happen - in the US all servers are english.........

Its 100% possible... if a japanese/chinese server can be clustered with the usa servers theres no reason why an english one can't be nooooooo reason.... just going to have to wait and see what mythic/goa do.

 

[Mauness]

Its 100% possible... if a japanese/chinese server can be clustered with the usa servers theres no reason why an english one can't be nooooooo reason.... just going to have to wait and see what mythic/goa do.

wasnt the japanese/chinese server already hosted by the US anyway? hench why they could cluster it.

 

[Raven]

yes it was, its no different from the EU classic server cluster.

 

[Icebreaker]

Sharkith, you are putting too much weight in conspiracy theories. Firstly there has not been a significant shift in numbers following the TT incident. Some people, primarily from the FGvFG scene moved, the vast majority of people stayed where they were. The perception that I see expressed on the forums that 'half the server left' isn't borne out ingame.

I don't see how us taking action over low population can be construed as an admission of anything other than low populations. We aren't going to make a kneejerk reaction, we are going to make sure that we make the right decision based on all the data and not fly into a panic because someone on a forum says that their friends have rerolled on a different server. There were 200 people in NF on the cluster last night, there's a healthy population despite what the doomsayers would have you believe.

In any case, when Prydwen had a low population, there was a clear and obvious solution available to us - the cluster with Excalibur - and we had clear data showing a gradual and consistent decline in population. The situation now isn't as clear cut, there are many temporary and seasonal factors affecting the cluster population and we'll get a much truer picture of what is happening after the new year.

After the TT incident the Hibernia average population dropped from 200-230 to 100. My Guild who had about 15 active members went inactive. There is noone there anymore. (And no most of them didn't quit, they just moved to another server) All moved away.Iam not blind and saying the population is stable and healthy is far away from reallity.

The new year arrived and nothing has changed. And i don't want to know what happens in the summer where even less people play.....

And really 200 people from all 3 realms in the whole NF is a joke (atleast for me).

 

[Varmuus]

After the TT incident the Hibernia average population dropped from 200-230 to 100.

As it seems I've missed something "big", I'm curious... What is this TT incident ppl are refering to?

And really 200 people from all 3 realms in the whole NF is a joke (atleast for me).

Ofc it's not enough... This is a MMORPG! There's nothing describing "massively" anymore, not at least when looking player amounts. Even thought I've been very loyal player serverwise, this isn't the way things should work and even I'm already thinking about taking US account. I got ppl in my guild (and what a lovely bunch they are!) Desaevio, but still I'm always wondering when I'm logging on: "Why did I reopen my acco, this cluster is dead..."

Sigh.

Think I'm going for US too.

 

[Ogrelin Blodig]

It would be interesting to know if just the fronteir-zones could be clustered with a german/frensh- server. I could live with that very easy.

I tried to play on Avalon but I didn't stand a chance to complete even shortest quest since I didn't understand a thing.

 

[Thadius]

Dip seems like a Bigger Dip than you think Requiel server numbers have dropped into the abyss.

I can understand when server population has dropped over years but we talking a lot of players within last year Requiel believe Goa need to be looking at a viable solution now rather than later.

Can understand that Glastonbury is thriving atm but believe you will find that has to do with more of the German population being able to play 2 realms rather than the 1 nothing to do with Glastonbury players coming back.Looked other day and glastonbury had more people playing than Excal/Pryd had online nothing to do with English players boosting that number.

Goa need to be looking at it now Requiel as more and more players are ditching this server of Excal/Pryd everyday.

Soulja

Quite true, playing the US servers is great compared to Excal. I doubt i will ever come back to Prydwen, if its clustred with the french/germans I will never return. Prydwen was always the English speaking server, changing to server to German/French speaking would just confuse and annoy a lot of people.

 

[Thadius]

On the subject of bbs which I just read(cant remember the poster ), they killed off a lot of the casual player base long ago. Having a buffbot to compete in rvr pretty much sucks, shame Mythic/Goa didnt do anything about it back then. They just let it be, smiling as the coffers filled up with 2 paying accounts. Now the players are leaving in droves, taking with it(mainly to the US) thier paying subs. I have only seen a few people with a bardbot/druid on stick in Hib on the Classic servers, rest seem to be all solo

 

[Kami]

I did have a second account on the US servers but cancelled it after I managed to get a decent guild and some groups going for leveling, there's just no need for it on the classic servers

 

[Mundokar]

I suggest GoA starts thinking a lot harder about a solution for the excal/pryd problem. Rvr is pretty fucked up nowadays and PvE is totally dead.

Btw German is no option...