to all zerkers and others with knowhow about the game

Cozak

Part of the furniture
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Jan 15, 2004
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Melachi said:
For a number of reasons.

1) They might be misinformed like you.
2) They prefare to have battler/malice & SoK charges available all the time.
3) They like seeing bigger numbers on offhand damage even though its less over time.
4) They look cooler.

loads more I dont know, but it is fact that 4.1/3.5 will outdamage 4.1/4.1 overtime when celerity is not up.

Pretty shitty reasons, and your stubborness is something as well, but your sadly wrong. Only race which might, just, benefit from using 4.1/3.5 would be troll, but thats without haste and cele. Let me run thru the points again, as this is my last post because either you really dont understand or your just trying to be funny.

LA Haste dps increase is barely, if at all, noticeable these days.
The attack speed increase from using 4.1/3.5 is barely noticeable, with 10% attack speed etc etc. Even more so when hasted and with celerity (Which he WILL have)
Malice offhand gives the proc whatever you choose to use mainhand be it SoK or Battler.
Malice hits a hell of alot harder than croc tooth and when they are swinging at the same speed, which they will be more or less, due to the above points, this means more dps.
In conclusion malice is a better offhand. ^_^
 

belxavier

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Melachi said:
For a number of reasons.

1) They might be misinformed like you.
2) They prefare to have battler/malice & SoK charges available all the time.
3) They like seeing bigger numbers on offhand damage even though its less over time.
4) They look cooler.

loads more I dont know, but it is fact that 4.1/3.5 will outdamage 4.1/4.1 overtime when celerity is not up.

'when celerity is not up' as u said urself.... hence zed saying he makes use of la haste for sb (though the calcs the same not same situation!) which generally dont have celerity? :p unles some di bot nub

as for zerker with opted grp (auge healer haste and celerity running constantly in fights?) why not use 4.1/4.1 with added malice 2 charge ready to bring into play constantly if ma trained and the elite proc ofc
 

Melachi

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Cozak said:
Pretty shitty reasons, and your stubborness is something as well, but your sadly wrong. Only race which might, just, benefit from using 4.1/3.5 would be troll, but thats without haste and cele. Let me run thru the points again, as this is my last post because either you really dont understand or your just trying to be funny.

Even with 250 quickness, 20% haste, 10% toa haste, 4.1 3.5 is still (barely) above the swing speed cap.

I allready said that with celerity included 4.1 4.1 would outdamage.

Cozak said:
LA Haste dps increase is barely, if at all, noticeable these days.
What has changed that makes LA Haste dps decrease? It _still_ does increase DPS.
Cozak said:
The attack speed increase from using 4.1/3.5 is barely noticeable, with 10% attack speed etc etc. Even more so when hasted and with celerity (Which he WILL have)
its not really the attack speed increase thats nice about LA haste, its the damage increase from it. And again Celerity is not allways up, but thats for each to decide. Rather more damage when celerity is down or when its up. And mind you, the damage lost when using 4.1/3.5 over 4.1/4.1 when celerity is up, is going to be in the area of 30 damage give or take.
Cozak said:
Malice offhand gives the proc whatever you choose to use mainhand be it SoK or Battler.
Yes the Malice proc is nice, but so is croc tooths, and together they are really nasty on caster/healers.
Cozak said:
Malice hits a hell of alot harder than croc tooth and when they are swinging at the same speed, which they will be more or less, due to the above points, this means more dps.
Malice hits harder _per hit_ not overtime when its in the offhand instead of croc tooth. It does not mean more dps, it actually returns less, since LA haste increases your DPS.
Cozak said:
In conclusion malice is a better offhand. ^_^
Im not arguing Malice is the worse offhand, since its not quantifiable, since offhand choice is not soley base on speed, but also its procs, charges and what stats are on it.

You seem to be misunderstanding something.

Take a warrior using a crafted MP 4.1 Axe, using the plague style. You do realise the same warrior using the same style with a crafted MP 3.4 Axe will do the within 1% the same damage over time?

What LA haste does is maintains style damage at mainhand speed, even though you are swinging faster. So a berserker using 4.1/3.5. His styles are based off 4.1 spd, even though hes swinging at 3.8 spd, which means more dps.
 

Melachi

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belxavier said:
'when celerity is not up' as u said urself.... hence zed saying he makes use of la haste for sb (though the calcs the same not same situation!) which generally dont have celerity? :p unles some di bot nub

as for zerker with opted grp (auge healer haste and celerity running constantly in fights?) why not use 4.1/4.1 with added malice 2 charge ready to bring into play constantly if ma trained and the elite proc ofc

Well yeah if celerity is allways up which imo is never the case, since its got a short range and theres usualy only one character in a group that can cast it. From my experience of FG-v-FG fights which was pre NF/ToA, it was usualy up for the first 20 seconds, of which tanks werent actually on enemy targets for the whole 20 seconds. The times it was up for a full fight was when we were defending a keep or absoloutely smashing the other group which we would have won without celerity being up.

Also the actual damage a 4.1 4.1 setup will do over a 4.1 3.5 setup when celerity is up is small, its the difirence of base damage of a 4.1 and a 3.5.
 

Zedenz

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Blexavier already said what I was going to be I'll repeat it, LA mechanics for SB and Zerker are the same but since SBs don't have celerity available, LA haste is nice to make use of, which is was I was clearly trying to state in my previous post.

The post has gotten trivial really, those who play berserkers and mess with LA on a regular basis will know whats what.

Not replying again.

Z
 

Dracus

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Actually Wyrd on VN did a test just like this...and came to the conclusion that if procs/charges/toa bonuses arent added to the calculation then 4.1/3.5 will outdmg 4.1/4.1 with about 7% over time, unless u cap swing spd with stuff like celerity and haste. I'll see if I can find the test.

In spite of that, I'd NEVER use CTD off hand, especially as a zerk(hello celerity ;)) and coz of 100% off hand(malice debuff r0x)

Imo the charges/procs (how easy it is to cap toa bonuses) makes the battler/sok+malice combo better by far

/Dracus
 

Thornar

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Coolan said:
oi thornar come back i still gotta duel you now i got my toa kit sorted :)
Hey man. :) I'd just beat you and you know it. :D :cheers:

How's it going? Daoc still fun?
 

Chap

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Melachi said:
Well yeah if celerity is allways up which imo is never the case, since its got a short range and theres usualy only one character in a group that can cast it. From my experience of FG-v-FG fights which was pre NF/ToA, it was usualy up for the first 20 seconds, of which tanks werent actually on enemy targets for the whole 20 seconds. The times it was up for a full fight was when we were defending a keep or absoloutely smashing the other group which we would have won without celerity being up.

Also the actual damage a 4.1 4.1 setup will do over a 4.1 3.5 setup when celerity is up is small, its the difirence of base damage of a 4.1 and a 3.5.
Agreed, from an augers pow I can deffo say that celerity is NEVER allways up. Those saying otherwise have no clue tbh. Usually the tank train will charge off unless they are going for the other grp's tank train. Most tend to either go for support or casters+bg'er to begin with and if thats the case they'll have celerity for the first 15-20 secs (+6-10% duration) of the fight as I wont follow them to cast celerity every 20 secs. Range and duration is crappy and its a dream that its allways up, and IF it is up all fight you would prolly have won anyways.
 

Zedenz

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On the contrary the range is 1000 coupled with some +range which you will undoubtly have it isn't so bad. The duration is "ok", but how long does a typical fight last, a few minutes perhaps?

I guess how long you have it up is the difference between a good and bad Aug Healer. Granted it won't "always" be up but it should be for a large portion, other times you will still have the spec haste.
 

Chap

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Zedenz said:
On the contrary the range is 1000 coupled with some +range which you will undoubtly have it isn't so bad. The duration is "ok", but how long does a typical fight last, a few minutes perhaps?

I guess how long you have it up is the difference between a good and bad Aug Healer. Granted it won't "always" be up but it should be for a large portion, other times you will still have the spec haste.
If you are up against a decent grp you will either be hiding under sum rock healing or have a tank train on you. 1000 range is crap, and your tank train will be too far away from that and charging with the train would just be silly. Ask those who have actually played in fg vs fg. Imo an Augers job is often to support the speed, resists, to sum degree CC'ing and ofc healing. And if you got the time cast celerity. Often you will have either a pet or a tanktrain you have to get rid of before you can even do your primary job.
Those who have stated that celerity allways will be up must never have tried fg vs fg.
Why do you think Augers tend to get 50%+ powerpool in their template? Coz they need to spam celerity?
 

belxavier

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Chap said:
If you are up against a decent grp you will either be hiding under sum rock healing or have a tank train on you. 1000 range is crap, and your tank train will be too far away from that and charging with the train would just be silly. Ask those who have actually played in fg vs fg. Imo an Augers job is often to support the speed, resists, to sum degree CC'ing and ofc healing. And if you got the time cast celerity. Often you will have either a pet or a tanktrain you have to get rid of before you can even do your primary job.
Those who have stated that celerity allways will be up must never have tried fg vs fg.
Why do you think Augers tend to get 50%+ powerpool in their template? Coz they need to spam celerity?

well always up is probably just a bad choice of words... always available and often up not just for first 20 seconds of a fight and aug healer have good power pool so they can heal and spam celerity when possible dont mean it gonna only be up on first engageing (they should also have good spell duration 6-10 should be more 10-20% imo) tho not necessarily up non stop, however as mentioned by zed u will have spec haste and still would rather 2 x 4.1 weapons
 

Chap

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belxavier said:
well always up is probably just a bad choice of words... always available and often up not just for first 20 seconds of a fight and aug healer have good power pool so they can heal and spam celerity when possible dont mean it gonna only be up on first engageing (they should also have good spell duration 6-10 should be more 10-20% imo) tho not necessarily up non stop, however as mentioned by zed u will have spec haste and still would rather 2 x 4.1 weapons
Ok, try get past 50% powerpool, decent artifacts and decent resists and then get 20% duration. That is impossible, and not worth it for the 2 secs extra duration in celerity. I agree it is nice with CC and BoF, but hardly worth gimping other starts for it.
Have no oppinion about the 4.1 vs 3.x, but the statement about celerity is just not true. In a opted fight you are far more focused on keeping your own grp alive + keeping support free to spam celerity AND following the train.
 

Osri

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Now I can add teh ultimate weapon setup

Teh best la damage can be archieved by 1h ml10 sword (4.1spd) and croc offhand.

so you can have like:

2% melee vs player races
2% style vs player races
10% melee toa
10% style toa

ml10 % bonuses goes top of normal toa bonuses I read but not seen or tested it though.

Guess you need artys like gov/gsv, golm, scalars, croc for it.

Anyone tested this?
 

Zedenz

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Osri said:
Teh best la damage can be archieved by 1h ml10 sword (4.1spd) and croc offhand.

so you can have like:

2% melee vs player races
2% style vs player races
10% melee toa
10% style toa

ml10 % bonuses goes top of normal toa bonuses I read but not seen or tested it though.

Guess you need artys like gov/gsv, golm, scalars, croc for it.

Anyone tested this?

Yes with Bigchief and Puppet, all 3 of us had the ML10 weapons from our realms. Damage and caps did not rise above 10%.

They are just labeled differently.
 

Osri

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Zedenz said:
Yes with Bigchief and Puppet, all 3 of us had the ML10 weapons from our realms. Damage and caps did not rise above 10%.

They are just labeled differently.

nm what I said then :/
 

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