To all those who don't believe in God....

[old.Tohtori]

What is the point then? Or is this where you somehow twist your wording to change the meaning?

F*ck off, right f*cking off. Don't you dare go with that cop-out bullsh*t again

How are you so sure they do not know why they are fighting? Examples? Al Qaeida (sp?) fight for a reason. Hitler fought for a reason. It was all for a reason.

Hitler fought for power.
Stalin etc. to an extent fought for power.
Dictators fight for power.
Al Qaieda fight for religion.
Many radicals fight for religion etc.

Did they get other people to kill for them? No - they initiated the killings themselves.

The fact of the matter is Seel - you are either chatting crap or you suck at putting across what you mean because what you said there is not true.

Just because you get things like you do, doesn't mean i'm in the wrong. Hitler didn't do the killing personally, LIKE I SAID, he got others to kill for him. Stalin, Osama etc etc etc. The point isn't about their motives, but about them not doing the killing and using other people to do so.

About not knowing why they fight, well, like i said "rarely" and the common soldier just fights 'cause he's told.

 

[swords]

Religion IS power.

 

[Chronictank]

Hitler fought for power.
Stalin etc. to an extent fought for power.
Dictators fight for power.
Al Qaieda fight for power
Many radicals fight for influence etc.

Corrected for you

I am sure there is some nutjob who fights for religion alone, but then i bet there is some nutjob who fights for "democracy"

Al-Qaeda grew from the 1980's when the soviet union tried to invade Afghanistan, they fought under the banner of Islam, and declared a Jihad against the soviets in an attempt to get help from neighouring regions.
Religion had nothing to do with al-queda other than a tool for foreign support and a recruiting method.

Under Bin Laden they forged close relations with the Taleban (who are a different organisation, these are the ones who originally used suicide attacks and targetted civilian targets in Sudan), and became increasingly radicalised
Their aim is to remove the US for the region and join Islamic Governments in an attempt to reconcile the Islamic Empire (as in the Ottoman Empire)

 

[Bugz]

So if the whole of history argues against you - you are not in the wrong? Icic.

Ofcourse, you getting as picky as 'they themselves as individuals didn't commit the killing personally' is a statement of opinion rather than fact. The whole of the world argues against you in that respect - since Osama is very much a wanted man even if he didn't kill anyone 'personally.'

On one side Seel - you are arguing that you cannot put the killing of individuals personally on the leaders hands, yet on the other you are saying that the soldiers/terrorists are simply doing 'what they are told.' So who in sweet fuck is responsible for the killings?

 

[Golena]

On one side Seel - you are arguing that you cannot put the killing of individuals personally on the leaders hands, yet on the other you are saying that the soldiers/terrorists are simply doing 'what they are told.' So who in sweet fuck is responsible for the killings?

No he's not.

 

[old.Tohtori]

So if the whole of history argues against you - you are not in the wrong? Icic.

Ofcourse, you getting as picky as 'they themselves as individuals didn't commit the killing personally' is a statement of opinion rather than fact. The whole of the world argues against you in that respect - since Osama is very much a wanted man even if he didn't kill anyone 'personally.'

On one side Seel - you are arguing that you cannot put the killing of individuals personally on the leaders hands, yet on the other you are saying that the soldiers/terrorists are simply doing 'what they are told.' So who in sweet fuck is responsible for the killings?

Like Golena said, no i'm not.

I'm not shifting blame, nor am i making some "anti history statement". Ofcourse the f*ck it's a statement of opinon, it¨'s my opinion isn't it?!

How about you see the f*cking tree from the forest, because there's no deep emotional or informational thing BEHIND my post,m it's just what it says on the tin.

 

[Chronictank]

So if the whole of history argues against you - you are not in the wrong? Icic.

Ofcourse, you getting as picky as 'they themselves as individuals didn't commit the killing personally' is a statement of opinion rather than fact. The whole of the world argues against you in that respect - since Osama is very much a wanted man even if he didn't kill anyone 'personally.'

On one side Seel - you are arguing that you cannot put the killing of individuals personally on the leaders hands, yet on the other you are saying that the soldiers/terrorists are simply doing 'what they are told.' So who in sweet fuck is responsible for the killings?

what history? you just made the comment up
Relgion may be used as a tool for recuruiting but it is by no means the aim for the organisation as you claim it is
If "history" is so clear cut how about coming up with some examples of where religion is the sole purpose behind killing people instead of innacurate sweeping statements

 

[Bugz]

Corrected for you

I am sure there is some nutjob who fights for religion alone, but then i bet there is some nutjob who fights for "democracy"

Al-Qaeda grew from the 1980's when the soviet union tried to invade Afghanistan, they fought under the banner of Islam, and declared a Jihad against the soviets in an attempt to get help from neighouring regions.
Religion had nothing to do with al-queda other than a tool for foreign support and a recruiting method.

Under Bin Laden they forged close relations with the Taleban (who are a different organisation, these are the ones who originally used suicide attacks and targetted civilian targets in Sudan), and became increasingly radicalised
Their aim is to remove the US for the region and join Islamic Governments in an attempt to reconcile the Islamic Empire (as in the Ottoman Empire)

I am not too hot on Al Qaeida but as far as I am aware, they have an objective for a new Islamic caliphate.

So I guess you can class that as religious.

 

[Bugz]

Relgion may be used as a tool for recuruiting but it is by no means the aim for the organisation as you claim it is
If "history" is so clear cut how about coming up with some examples of where religion is the sole purpose behind killing people instead of innacurate sweeping statements

Religious influence for Al Qaieda etc. is present - I never claimed it was the aim, but it does have a part to play in the puzzle of war.

Edit - anywho - this is a very sketchy topic in which I do not want to get too deep into. I merely wanted to point the flaws in Seel's logic. Take what I said with a pinch of salt.

 

[Olgaline]

Bugz wake up, they are messing with you in a bad way....
altho i do belive they are seriouse but still...

 

[Chronictank]

Bugz wake up, they are messing with you in a bad way....
altho i do belive they are seriouse but still...

how so, he made an unfounded comment and i called him up on it
Although he explained what he meant afterwards

 

[old.Tohtori]

how so, he made an unfounded comment and i called him up on it
Although he explained what he meant afterwards

Hey hey, don't you know, that's something that i do and it's frowned upon by many!

You can't explain yourself in these forums, if others misunderstand, it's YOUR fault

By the way Bugz, there was no flaw in it as it was only a partial logic anyway. As in, no defining theory or fact, but a slice of the pie so to speak.

 

[Bugz]

By the way Bugz, there was no flaw in it as it was only a partial logic anyway. As in, no defining theory or fact, but a slice of the pie so to speak.

Well no harm done then.

Just you have a habit of saying things in such a manner of fact way, as if it is the sole defining factor. Hence why people pick up on you alot.

It's probably more to do with how you explain things - rather than what you mean.

Now who's up for tea and cookies?

 

[old.Tohtori]

Well no harm done then.

Just you have a habit of saying things in such a manner of fact way, as if it is the sole defining factor. Hence why people pick up on you alot.

It's probably more to do with how you explain things - rather than what you mean.

Now who's up for tea and cookies?

Partly yes, could very well be that i don't come off clear as the day, but also one defining factor is that what i say are not definitives and are just an opinion. But, people often take them as attacks, definitives or absolutes

 

[Chronictank]

Now who's up for tea and cookies?

Sure if you're buying
although chocolate digestives which you put in the fridge for 30 mins ftw

 

[Bugz]

Sure if you're buying
although chocolate digestives which you put in the fridge for 30 mins ftw

What happens when you put them in the fridge? (apart from being colder ofc).

 

[Chronictank]

What happens when you put them in the fridge? (apart from being colder ofc).

they become harder
try it for chocolately goodness

 

[pikeh]

they become harder
try it for chocolately goodness

or buy bourbons and dip them in tea. mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

 

[Lamp]

Tim Tams (or if you can't get them, Penguins) are great for slurping tea through