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[DaGaffer]

I would not be that bothered if the Iranian regime, and it's sadistic, cultist military were yeeted off the face of the planet by large American bombs, to be fair.

A regime that exists because we constantly meddled with Iranian affairs for our own gain in the first place.

 

[Scouse]

A regime that exists because we constantly meddled with Iranian affairs for our own gain in the first place.

That's fair.

But maybe we're due a reroll eh?

 

[Gwadien]

That's fair.

But maybe we're due a reroll eh?

Again. As someone thst was so against the Iraq war I find this weird.

Saddam wasn't a popular leader hence why the insurrection was largely limited and they didn't have a deep seated hatred for the US.

Irans leadership is more popular and the people that aren't behind the leadership are certainly don't like America.

The only way it works if there's boots on the ground and it'll result in deaths that makes Iraq look insignificant.

Get some good oil tho.

 

[Scouse]

Again. As someone thst was so against the Iraq war I find this weird.

I've said this before - but it seems that everything I say just gets dumpted into a hole. Saddam, whilst a cunt, ran a secular government. Women were allowed to have jobs and weren't horribly mistreated (especially compared to Iran and absolutely Saudi Arabia that we're in bed with). I also objected to the fact that we were obviously being lied to and for oil.

It was a war of aggression, on trumped up charges. Alan Greenspan (the Fed chairman at that point) said it was to America's great shame that they weren't honest about that. And we sucked their dick. And ISIS grew out of that - we made the world demonstratively more safe.

Iran's leadership isn't more popular. It looks like they've killed potentially 25,000 people proving that. And the ones they're popular with are religious Islamic zealots and all that goes with that.

Despite that - I'm not gung ho about it. I'm still not sure it's the right thing to do. That's why I italicised maybe.

But sure as shit right now Iran is a much more horribly oppressive hellhole than Iraq ever was. It's so bad that the only thing worse than it for oppression and thought control is the NEC of the Labour Party.

 

[Gwadien]

Saddam had up to 500,000 people killed during his rule but it's okay because he was secular?

What would a war with Iran be classified as if not as a war of aggression?

 

[Scouse]

It's a fair point @Gwadien (although if you strip out the wars Amnesty puts it at about 100k).

Like I said. It's all shit. And I'm not for it. But like @Raven I wouldn't cry if the regime fell.

 

[SilverHood]

I'm all for regime change, but what will replace it? The track record of Western powers is not exactly good. I'm struggling to think of even a single good outcome anywhere.

 

[Scouse]

Funnily enough. The incumbent son-of-asshat who's prime mover is pro-Israel...

 

[Raven]

A regime that exists because we constantly meddled with Iranian affairs for our own gain in the first place.

OK.

 

[Gwadien]

Funnily enough. The incumbent son-of-asshat who's prime mover is pro-Israel...

That's because the monarchy saw themselves as a continuation of the golden era of Iran - Cyrus the Great is considered a messiah in the Jewish narrative because of what he did for the Jews.

Probably explains why when Israel lobs shit at Iran they're always like 'this is for the regime, not the people.'

 

[Raven]

Just bought 10 lego f1 cars...which I will never build.

Edit, actually thinking they might be a good investment.


View: https://www.amazon.co.uk/LEGO-Champions-Collectible-Formula-Minifigure/dp/B0DHSDJ148?crid=38HRUHC8HMYN6&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.iwhOGHeN2TunBGC4i7szI6olODVGx9S1fBoLDGIfRwE80tahu8uilHXgU0Rf2pNWXY1Mi-oXYbuUmmKYn2J4C3_LzGKI9XCJlFt1j_-C3TaA9xnC14lOG19BX1y8CymPsgCpFLPNQ8yh1GGnRgoFiNVOnVUyS12n_R4GeVImzygLZiV3GgupwXzINYJemgvShMPIvVDl9UnX2PRly7uVFoe3XX2UVC607qiEzvdvGv2tevtlQzYTSV1GexZxS1SULQGavqd6-yDYjDfK6aJ56q38CwhgkqMOOcEUoGp1hlQ.hBqvv_gyYCBN9aQOCW8CvwryQ9mzvNUByymoQ2Nf2ak&dib_tag=se&keywords=lego%2Bspeed%2Bchampions%2Bf1%2Bred%2Bbull&qid=1769713579&sprefix=lego%2Bspeed%2Bchampions%2Bf1%2Bred%2Caps%2C100&sr=8-6&th=1

 

[Scouse]

Ok. Epstein picture and question:

Spoiler

So. Who are the women?

If Epstein and Maxwell, who is, lest we forget, is a woman, are at the centre of a child sex ring, and we're going down a guilt by association route - then why are adult women getting what clearly appears to be a free pass?

 

[Gwadien]

Ok. Epstein picture and question:

Spoiler

View attachment 51476

So. Who are the women?

If Epstein and Maxwell, who is, lest we forget, is a woman, are at the centre of a child sex ring, and we're going down a guilt by association route - then why are adult women getting what clearly appears to be a free pass?

Maybe because the 'grab her by the pussy' chap isn't interested in justice, just putting other major public figures in front of him.

 

[caLLous]

Ok. Epstein picture and question:

Spoiler

View attachment 51476

So. Who are the women?

If Epstein and Maxwell, who is, lest we forget, is a woman, are at the centre of a child sex ring, and we're going down a guilt by association route - then why are adult women getting what clearly appears to be a free pass?

It's astonishing that you even need to ask that.

 

[Scouse]

It's astonishing that you even need to ask that.

Sarah Ferguson not involved?

Are women not capable of abuse?

I wasn't asking about kids - but adults. If adult women were in attendance, then they also could have evidence, no?

Please to be explaining exactly why that question is "astonishing" as it seems to me that anyone involved in potential criminality should be answering questions - regardless of their sex.

 

[caLLous]

Sarah Ferguson not involved?

Are women not capable of abuse?

I wasn't asking about kids - but adults. If adult women were in attendance, then they also could have evidence, no?

Please to be explaining exactly why that question is "astonishing" as it seems to me that anyone involved in potential criminality should be answering questions - regardless of their sex.

Of course they should but they're not censoring it according to the "no victims identified" order (even though they're so incompetent they revealed the IDs of several in this latest release). They're dragging their feet and censoring according to the wishes of Trump and whoever he's trying to protect.

Clinton's name shows up and they all start screeching for him to be investigated and to appear before committees. Trump's name is in literally thousands of files but the DOJ put out a preemptive statement with the files saying it's all lies and politically motivated and blah blah blah.

 

[Scouse]

Maybe because the 'grab her by the pussy' chap isn't interested in justice, just putting other major public figures in front of him.

That doesn't remotely answer my question. It wasn't about Trump. It was about women and why they don't seem to be on the hook for this shit too? It's often the case that in child sexual abuse cases women are co-conspiritors. E.G. Maxwell.

Is your hatred of Trump blinding you in a pursuit of justice?

 

[Scouse]

Of course they should but they're not censoring it according to the "no victims identified" order (even though they're so incompetent they revealed the IDs of several in this latest release). They're dragging their feet and censoring according to the wishes of Trump and whoever he's trying to protect.

Clinton's name shows up and they all start screeching for him to be investigated and to appear before committees. Trump's name is in literally thousands of files but the DOJ put out a preemptive statement with the files saying it's all lies and politically motivated and blah blah blah.

So my above statement really...

...for you this is political. For me this is about hatred of paedos. And when I ask about women, you make it about politics.

I can't stand the politics side of this. I only care about victims. And that must mean men AND women being interrogated.

On politics - It also means that if you bay for Trump (fair) you must also bay for Clinton.

But I don't see that. I just see you ignoring that and going "but but but Trump! Clinton is a distraction!" But if Clinton is also guilty then he's not a distraction, he should also be firmly in our sights.

It seems that justice itself is partisan.

 

[caLLous]

So my above statement really...

...for you this is political. For me this is about hatred of paedos. And when I ask about women, you make it about politics.

I can't stand the politics side of this. I only care about victims. And that must mean men AND women being interrogated.

On politics - It also means that if you bay for Trump (fair) you must also bay for Clinton.

But I don't see that. I just see you ignoring that and going "but but but Trump! Clinton is a distraction!" But if Clinton is also guilty then he's not a distraction, he should also be firmly in our sights.

It seems that justice itself is partisan.

It's not political for me, it's political. I'm not explaining how it is for me, I'm explaining how it very fucking obviously is (unless you're trying really hard to pretend otherwise).

Every one of them should be investigated and cleared or punished accordingly. Andrew should be dragged over there, kicking and screaming, to explain himself.

MAGA thought it was some massive gotcha that there might be Democrats on the list but the response has always been "fucking lock them up as well then". Everybody wants the files released in as unredacted a form as possible (while protecting the victims), except Trump and his cronies. Trump's DOJ has ignored court orders, they've still only released half of the files, they're scouring through them to remove references to Trump.

Musk was all for the release last year but now, since his name came up in a heavily suspicious context, he suddenly thinks it's a distraction and none of it matters.

Release the lot of it and investigate the lot of them.

 

[Gwadien]

That doesn't remotely answer my question. It wasn't about Trump. It was about women and why they don't seem to be on the hook for this shit too? It's often the case that in child sexual abuse cases women are co-conspiritors. E.G. Maxwell.

Is your hatred of Trump blinding you in a pursuit of justice?

no, it also addresses the wider point of guilty by association, it's pretty clear that Epstein was a very very popular person among the rich, and I highly doubt *all* of them knew about his secret goings on, unless we're going to start to subscribe to bin laden and jfk on the jungle-island thing.

We should be looking at people who have had questionable histories when it comes to women (Trump) or have other evidence of them being fucked (Andrew).

I also question the 'legal' issue at hand here - I suspect the range from 'knowledge' goes from rumours all the way to taking part/helping out (Maxwell). I suspect it's probably a better strategy to identify and go after the people who put their dick in young girls (so men). Then worry about the lesser (yet serious) issues later, as that is far more complex.

 

[Scouse]

It's not political for me, it's political. I'm not explaining how it is for me,

Calling bullshit here.

My question - go back and look at it - was about adult women, and how they appear to be getting a free pass.

You and gwadien both jumped on me, pretty hard, because for both of you this is primarily political. It's oozing out of your statements.

So, whilst I absolutely don't disagree that this is a complete shitshow politically (and have agreed) - failure to disregard the political in the pursuit of justice is an impediment to justice.

They are two separate pieces and must be separate.

So when I ask a question about women, please, give up your performative "astonishment" and tell me why adult women are, clearly, being given a pass, when they too fuck children.

 

[caLLous]

Aside from a connection to Trump or a Trump ally somehow... maybe they're: not public figures, uncharged, unidentified... any number of reasons, I suspect. Maybe they were historically victims. Maybe they were just bystanders in the background of an image, I don't think they were all taken on the island. There are probably redacted men as well and there are certainly unredacted women.

 

[Scouse]

There are probably redacted men as well

You imagine eh?

I really don't. There is well-established bias in these sorts of cases that see women as victims or innocent bystanders (they are NOT) and men as perpetrators.

Even when it comes to sentencing of guilty women they are beneficiaries of significantly more leniancy.

Nobody blinks when Branson is pictured, even though it absolutely smears his reputaton. He's "officially not a suspect" but his face isn't redacted whilst the two, adult-looking women behind him are.

In this ongoing political guilt-by-association shitshow between republicans and democrats in blatant electoral points scoring and smearing, when it's blatantly apparent people on all sides of the political establishment (and those not in politics at all) were close to Epstein and Maxwell, some of what is being lost is A) a huge and obvious bias that has implications far beyond this case and B) any possibility of real justice being reached.

It is now simply an outrageous and ugly political football. It's not going to resolve into any meaningful legal outcomes and is now, 100%, a bullshit electoral battleground between utterly partisan assholes.

WE don't need to be part of that mob-rule problem.

I'm interested in one thing only (and the thing we're not going to get): justice. Which is supposed to be blind.

 

[caLLous]

Yeah, yeah, they're as bad as each other.

The previous DOJ under Garland shit the bed in a massive way by being too cautious with it all and not wanting to appear to be using it politically but there's only one side currently using it for that purpose, whether you like it or not. The side whose boss is mentioned literally thousands of times.

Why, if not to serve as a distraction (and given that Trump is mentioned literally thousands of times), would they leak a very concentrated and handpicked set of files about Clinton and scream from the rooftops about subpoenaing/charging/investigating/etc him? Then when Trump's name crops up (thousands of times) they say, before anyone even says anything, "oh that, that's nothing, just a bit of politically motivated nonsense". You can't be this naive.

Release all the files. Investigate all the offences and deal with those involved. That's all anyone but the current US admin has been saying for years.

 

[Scouse]

Yeah, yeah, they're as bad as each other.

....and more stuff that shows I'm utterly mind-captured by the politics of it all, and not the actual criminality itself...

Yeah yeah. Trump. Etc. That's the important thing.

 

[Lamp]

Apparently this was not allowed to be shown on British TV. I love it ! And the music is spot on



View: https://youtu.be/5l97cK4W-cw?si=_UH9BxbzTC0ZpCaI

 

[Scouse]

Just to humour you on the politics side @caLLous:

I do like your assertion that there must be hundreds of people in government (for that is what it would take) who are happily colluding to cover up evidence of paedophilia without whistleblowers all over the place releasing cold, hard, evidence of who fucked who and when.

If that evidence is there (which, obviously, there must be, right?) then there's people sat on it. It's disgusting that so many Americans are willing to be paedophile enablers rather than go to the free press with the cold, hard, unredacted evidence that they've got in their hands.

Even if the evidence is only available to a small number of gatekeepers, the fact that no such evidence has surfaced (because it must exist, right?) suggests a catastrophic collapse of moral courage. We are forced to conclude that these officials are making a daily, conscious calculation: that their own professional safety and the preservation of the 'status quo' are more important than justice for victims of paedophilia.

By choosing to sit on cold, hard evidence rather than becoming whistleblowers they've become active enablers.

I find it interesting that you think the US government is chock full of these people - people who prefer complicity than routing a corrupt paedo class.

 

[Raven]

How the fuck do you find the time, ffs.

 

[Scouse]

Apparently this was not allowed to be shown on British TV. I love it ! And the music is spot on



View: https://youtu.be/5l97cK4W-cw?si=_UH9BxbzTC0ZpCaI

Channeling the Matrix much. Cool

Tho they're still a bunch of criminal emissions test dodgers

 

[Scouse]

How the fuck do you find the time, ffs.

Was sat in the bath. It's Sunday