This little thing I found..

[DavidH]

Took this little thing off another website forum, and it made me think.. Please, do not trash this thread with stupid posts going "olol, religion really rawks, yarly".

---

Party;

The biggest party ever is when you get through the gates of heaven. Because you will be living eternally with God.

Jesus also said if you deny me in front of your friends i will deny you in front of my Father

You know the number 666 is not a trend. Its the mark of the beast and thats not cool. Lately being evil is scene! DUMB!!! I dont judge people for what they like but dont give me that 666 crap.

98% of teens won't stand up for God.
Say aye if you are one of those 2% percents.

 

[Mikah75]

pure athiest im afraid

 

[Chosen]

olol, religion really rawks, yarly

<3<3

 

[Bugz]

I may be the only one in this slight circle of stupidity but what is the 'aim' of this thread?

 

[echome]

Religion is the opium of the people - Karl Marx

Sorry but I like my life raw with only one person to blame and ask for help, me.

 

[DocWolfe]

Reminds me of some Nine Inch Nails lyrics:

God is dead/No-one cares/If there is a Hell/I'll see you there!

 

[Mikah75]

Religion is the opium of the people - Karl Marx

Sorry but I like my life raw with only one person to blame and ask for help, me.

oooh im impressed love that quote
the other quote love by Engels and Marx is that marriage is glorified prostitution

 

[echome]

Reminds me of some Nine Inch Nails lyrics:

God is dead/No-one cares/If there is a Hell/I'll see you there!

The one "God is dead" came from a very famous philosopher called Nietzsche.
(Just extra info, sorry)

 

[DavidH]

The one "God is dead" came from a very famous philosopher called Nietzsche.
(Just extra info, sorry)

Nietzsche wound up talking to his horse. ^^

 

[Thorwyn]

So, obviously those words made an impression on you. Otherwise you wouldn´t have posted them.

Sorry, I can´t see anything new here. The usual "We promise you eternal life and endless supply of beer, but if you´re not a good person, we´re gonna smack you in the face.. your call". If God is allmighty and ominiscent, why is he so keen on the faith of a couple of his own creations? Why does he feel the urge to punish people who´re not showing blind faith? And even more important: how is it possible for an allmighty unit to create something as imperfect and "buggy" as human beings? Was he practicing?

I don´t want to step on your toes, but to me, this kind of "message" is so worn out and meaningless like an advert for a shampoo on TV. If there is a God and he really feels like he has to punish me for not believing his pretty stories, then let him. HE gave us our free will (according to him).. so he´s got to live with the consequences.

 

[Raven]

i fall into the nocare group, couldnt care less if there is a god or not. If he/she/it exists and wants me to bow down to him then he can suck my wang.

 

[MesS°]

Religion is so last century.

Do you still believe in Adam and Eve David?

 

[TheBinarySurfer]

Religion is the opium of the people - Karl Marx

Sorry but I like my life raw with only one person to blame and ask for help, me.

/agree
marx got a number of things wrong, this wasn't one of them

Edit: Also, anyone know what the word for someone telling you to "do this or there will be consequences that I will inflict on you" is? Its called blackmail - and that's the essence of the bible and this omnipotent beings supposed rules - do as i tell you or suffer my eternal wrath and torture in the firey pits of hell...Basically.

Anyone fancy trying to convict god of blackmail?

Edit2:If you want to believe in religion thats fine i have no problem with it and the above isn't intended to personally insult the thread starter or anyone religious. I just think you need to think about where, and in what faith will be most rewarding to you. Speaking from experience i find people with a lot of faith in religion usually have little in themselves...

 

[Pirkel]

I would stand up for god. If he entered the bus and there were no seats.

But no, athiest here so I guess I'm really in that 98% group.

I do envy people who can believe in god I bet it gives them a lot of peace of mind. But in the end I'm afraid they're just fooling themselves and isn't it worth more if that peace of mind is based on reality?

 

[Thorwyn]

On a lighter side, here´s a quote from a Pratchett book that fits pretty well:

"This is very similar to the suggestion put forward by the Quirmian philosopher Ventre, who said, "Possibly the gods exist, and possibly they do not. So why not believe in them in any case? If its all true you'll go to a lovely place when you die and if it isnt then you've lost nothing right?" When he died he woke up in a circle of gods holding nasty-looking sticks and one of them said, "We're going to show you what we think of Mr Clever Dick in these parts..."."

 

[Mikah75]

haha, thats brilliant

 

[Jeremiah]

I've just finished reading Monstrous Regiment by Mr Pratchett, which talks about a land with a God who "supposedly" makes certain things an abomonation to him. Such as blue rocks, and jigsaw puzzles with peices missing Its a great read!

I just wanted to dispel a few myths here, but I promise I wont preach hehe

Christianity isnt about doing right or wrong. The only thing you can do to be saved is to believe that Jesus was the Son of God. And that is a free will choice, and the only "check" on the sheet. And at the end of life, Christians (as well as most faiths) believe there will be Heaven or Hell as a reward. To say that "you must believe in Jesus or you will go to hell" is blackmail is like saying that "You must walk on the pavement, or you will end up being hit by a car" is blackmailing you to walk on the pavement.

And Pirkel, my peace of mind is based on reality. I'm a scientist by trade, so I'm naturally sceptical of everything until I see the evidence or proof of things. For me its a natural step from "What created the universe?" to then believe in a creator. True, we could then ask "Did something create the creator?" but that question doesnt rule out that there must have been a creator does it? Then you can look at things on this earth that must have been created - the biggest example being the human body. There hasnt been any sound theories about how we came about, and to me Creation does seem the most plausable

 

[Thorwyn]

Yeah, I guess the christians will find a semantic backdoor in any of their twisted arguments.

As for the scientific aspect... there´s something you can´t fully explain i.e. the human being. And because you can´t explain it, you believe it´s made by something you can´t explain either? People in ancient times used to thing that lightnings are actually gods on a rampage. Then, someone came up with an explanation and boof... no more gods needed.
The more we know, the less we need a god and the earlier we´ll get rid of this phantom we call religion, which is just a source of evil, the better. Enough people have died unter the sign of the cross and the half moon and the great white rabbit.

 

[Jeremiah]

Its not a back argument - its a choice like anything else in life. But hey, if you believe theres no God, then the choice is meaningless as there wont be a heaven or hell, so its a non-issue. Its not even worth worrying about

On the human body side, the more science is discovering, the more it points to intelligent design. So I dont see it being a problem to go with this theory.

I agree with you tho, religion does cause a lot of evil things in the world. People shouldnt be killing, threatning or removing basic human rights because of what they believe. But I believe religion is faith gone wrong.

 

[Lethul]

And Pirkel, my peace of mind is based on reality. I'm a scientist by trade, so I'm naturally sceptical of everything until I see the evidence or proof of things. For me its a natural step from "What created the universe?" to then believe in a creator. True, we could then ask "Did something create the creator?" but that question doesnt rule out that there must have been a creator does it? Then you can look at things on this earth that must have been created - the biggest example being the human body. There hasnt been any sound theories about how we came about, and to me Creation does seem the most plausable

strange, people who are scientist by trade usually find religion/gods creation etc pure humbug.

im a pure atheist aswell btw!

religion is the root of all(almost) evil in this world

 

[Thorwyn]

Its not a back argument - its a choice like anything else in life. But hey, if you believe theres no God, then the choice is meaningless as there wont be a heaven or hell, so its a non-issue. Its not even worth worrying about

I don´t say there´s no god. I don´t know, maybe there is one. I won´t have a chance to find out until the day I die I guess, so I´m not gonna waste my time with the question. The thing is, that I doubt that a god would act in the way the christian religion is trying to tell us. I simply don´t believe the dogmata of catholic church, because I´m absolutely sure that they´re just a construct to implement fear into the minds of their followers, making it easier to control them. Take a look at the history of the church and you´ll find this mechanism over and over again.

And no, it´s not a choice like anything else in life, because the difference between a car that´s hitting me because I don´t walk on the pavement is a separate and independant threat, while the unit that´s saying "believe in me, or I`ll deny you in front of my father" is in charge of both sides. I have the choice to not believe him, he has the choice to not deny me.

Anyways, it´s a futile discussion.

 

[echome]

/agree
marx got a number of things wrong, this wasn't one of them

Don't get me started here... I am, as someone else said, a commie.
I belive in the thoughts and ideas of Karl Marx about a "perfect" world, where we would all be equal. I DO NOT belive in the way Stalin or Lenin were trying to put his ideas into the world - for me they were no better than Hitler.
Some may say it is utopia... I say we aint trying hard enough.
But this discussion we can have some other day if anybody like(Really enjoy talking to people about their belives and view on life). Therefor I also respect other peoples religion and/or belives, though I don't support them or think they are right.

I do envy people who can believe in god I bet it gives them a lot of peace of mind. But in the end I'm afraid they're just fooling themselves and isn't it worth more if that peace of mind is based on reality?

I am with you on this one mate... Would be sooo much easier if we could just sit back and think "All is good 'cause God got my back"... But sadly I can't do that

 

[TheBinarySurfer]

Christianity isnt about doing right or wrong. The only thing you can do to be saved is to believe that Jesus was the Son of God. And that is a free will choice, and the only "check" on the sheet. And at the end of life, Christians (as well as most faiths) believe there will be Heaven or Hell as a reward. To say that "you must believe in Jesus or you will go to hell" is blackmail is like saying that "You must walk on the pavement, or you will end up being hit by a car" is blackmailing you to walk on the pavement.

Just plain wrong sorry - you're assuming the car is unable to avoid the pedestrian - just as youre assuming that this omnipotent being is compelled to send you to hell if you don't believe.

If he's truly an omnipotent and (according to most tenets) a loving, beneficent god as the bible and the Christian faith as a whole claims then why would he do that?

Sure if he's omnipotent he can do it but the religions in question centre around a caring, loving god that only wants humanity to believe and behave right.

One other point - if you choose to stand in the road and a car driver runs you down, he/she is still responsible for hitting you regardless of if you were wearing black on a dark night and jumped out at the last second.

Saying "you must believe or go to hell" is not a choice - its tantamount to the old offer of "Plato o Plomo" - lead or silver. Accept the nice choice/bribe in front of you, believe what i've told you, or get punished accordingly. (Its a (Edit:Meant latin)Latin phrase meaning literally take a bribe or get shot).

If i tell you you can step out in the road and die, or stand on the pavement and do like youre told - why do you think people still follow religion.

Religion has always been a tool of control ultimately - church and state has only seperated out in the last few hundred years (and still not completely if you believe a lot of the reports about the vaticans influence today), they were the same thing before - how convenient that the religious tenets tell people to behave in a way that makes (on the whole) for an easier controlled and more docile, accepting populace that works together and shares a belief that it is right. (And check the history on this should you think this is untrue)

I accept religion is a nice spiritual crutch for those unable or unwilling to form their own views and beliefs and moral code - however for the rest of us with the mental fortitude or flexibility to create our own it has no use. For those of you that believe, thats your choice - however blind faith is tantamount to ignorance - if you question your beliefs constantly and still come out believing then i wish you the best of luck in life and your chosen moral structure / code.

Edit: I'm not slagging religion off - you want to believe thats your business. The above is my opinion, granted slightly leaning opinion

 

[Lethul]

Don't get me started here... I am, as someone else said, a commie.
I belive in the thoughts and ideas of Karl Marx about a "perfect" world, where we would all be equal. I DO NOT belive in the way Stalin or Lenin were trying to put his ideas into the world - for me they were no better than Hitler.
Some may say it is utopia... I say we aint trying hard enough.
But this discussion we can have some other day if anybody like(Really enjoy talking to people about their belives and view on life). Therefor I also respect other peoples religion and/or belives, though I don't support them or think they are right.

communism seems great, i could play daoc 24/7 and still collect my monthly paycheck or?

 

[echome]

oooh im impressed love that quote
the other quote love by Engels and Marx is that marriage is glorified prostitution

Hihi they were indeed great men with big thoughts both of 'em... and still with a sense of humour:worthy:

 

[Jeremiah]

Just so you know, I dont adhere to anything the Catholic church practises that isnt in the bible. I'd agree that a lot of their stuff could be seen as forged to control people. I know a lot of people who dont believe in anything, but will still say they are Catholic - it does seem a rather controlling institution - so I would agree with you on that.

I cant pretend that "Christianity" hasnt been used to justify some really horrific acts, the same way the Islam is being abused these days. But true Christianity (like I'd imagine other faiths) really isnt about "Do this or I'll smite ye from the earth", its all about love (aww). Here I'll depart from my ramblings

 

[echome]

communism seems great, i could play daoc 24/7 and still collect my monthly paycheck or?

Yes you are one of the people who would ruin this idea, 'grats.

By being selfish and not doing your work for the state, and thereby not helping your fellow people, you would be the rotten apple that would infect all the others.

 

[Lethul]

Yes you are one of the people who would ruin this idea, 'grats.

By being selfish and not doing your work for the state, and thereby not helping your fellow people, you would be the rotten apple that would infect all the others.

sadly humans are by nature a selfish animal, just like the rest of the earths habitants.

 

[echome]

sadly humans are by nature a selfish animal, just like the rest of the earths habitants.

No no and no. We are born being social and caring but raised being selfish.

That is where the problem is and that is what we must change to start the creation of a perfect world without poverty,

 

[Jeremiah]

Just plain wrong sorry - you're assuming the car is unable to avoid the pedestrian - just as youre assuming that this omnipotent being is compelled to send you to hell if you don't believe.

If he's truly an omnipotent and (according to most tenets) a loving, beneficent god as the bible and the Christian faith as a whole claims then why would he do that?

Sure if he's omnipotent he can do it but the religions in question centre around a caring, loving god that only wants humanity to believe and behave right.

Ok, I will try to write true to what the bible says about this all. The bible teaches all deserve hell, because we are born into sin (as a result of Adam and Eve) and sin seperates us from God. Those who believe in Jesus are redeemed from the curse of sin. That doesnt mean we are any better than the rest of humanity, but it does mean that we can be forgiven of our sin, because of Jesus dying on the cross. Those who dont believe in Jesus therefore cant be forgiven, as we can only be forgiven through Jesus. Therefore the sin of mankind condemns them to hell.

One other point - if you choose to stand in the road and a car driver runs you down, he/she is still responsible for hitting you regardless of if you were wearing black on a dark night and jumped out at the last second.

Saying "you must believe or go to hell" is not a choice - its tantamount to the old offer of "Plato o Plomo" - lead or silver. Accept the nice choice/bribe in front of you, believe what i've told you, or get punished accordingly. (Its a (Edit:Meant latin)Latin phrase meaning literally take a bribe or get shot).

If i tell you you can step out in the road and die, or stand on the pavement and do like youre told - why do you think people still follow religion.

Maybe the car was a bad example. Think of it in another way. There is a punishment for crime, we call it justice. If I stole a car, I would be punished, as there is a consequence to my actions. At some point I made the choice to break the law, and steal the car. Before the choice I was innocent of any crime, and after the choice I was immediatley guilty. If I chose not to steal the car, I would still be innocent.

Now, if I knew of the consequences of the choice before hand, stealling = guilty, and not stealling = innocent then I have an informed choice. If I chose to not make the choice (stay with me here ) then I would remain in the state I was before, i.e. innocent.

The choice between believing in Jesus is like this example, except the states are opposite. We start off being guilty (of sin). We all then get the choice (I believe). We can choose to believe in Jesus, and therefor become innocent (in God's eyes) or choose not to believe and remain guilty. If we choose not to choose, then we remain in the state before hand, which is guilty. And being guilty brings punishment. This isnt a bribe or be killed situation. You have the free choice. Just because one result of the choice would mean an eternity in hell doesnt make the choice unfair (I think it makes the choice rather easy). You either gain Heaven or Hell. You make an informed choice, no one is twisting you arm. (if they are, give them a slap).

Religion has always been a tool of control ultimately - church and state has only seperated out in the last few hundred years (and still not completely if you believe a lot of the reports about the vaticans influence today), they were the same thing before - how convenient that the religious tenets tell people to behave in a way that makes (on the whole) for an easier controlled and more docile, accepting populace that works together and shares a belief that it is right. (And check the history on this should you think this is untrue)

I accept religion is a nice spiritual crutch for those unable or unwilling to form their own views and beliefs and moral code - however for the rest of us with the mental fortitude or flexibility to create our own it has no use. For those of you that believe, thats your choice - however blind faith is tantamount to ignorance - if you question your beliefs constantly and still come out believing then i wish you the best of luck in life and your chosen moral structure / code.

Edit: I'm not slagging religion off - you want to believe thats your business. The above is my opinion, granted slightly leaning opinion

I've already posted how I feel about religion, its an evil thing used to control people by fear. I dont believe in that. Christianity isnt about following rules to get you into heaven. Its the doctrine of man that forces people to act a certain way.

Jesus saying "if you deny me, I will deny you" isnt forcing us to do anything. If you believe in Jesus, you wont deny him - because you know of the amazing thing he has done for the world. What he means is that if you deny that he is the Son of God, who died for the world - then he cant forgive you on judgement day.

I'd agree that any faith brings with it a moral code, but I dont see why you think this is for weak people. If anything, you'll probably find that your moral code and my moral code are similar. And with all respect, I dont understand why you insinuate that people who believe are any less capable of judgement. We are all human after all who have the same thought process. Maybe those who do believe are just better informed about what they believe in, hence when they examine their faith, it stands up to scrutiny?

I just want to say, I really dont like debating this kind of stuff because I know how much people enjoy the free speech of FH (including me) So please dont give me negative reps for this I really will stop now


Oh, and the disclaimer! What I've written is entirely what I believe - I can understand why topics like this wind people up so much, so for the record please dont take any of this personally. I agree everyone is entitled to their own opinon, and they should be able to voice it without flame (as long as they do it nicely hehe)