There Is No La Penalty

[garnax]

Q: I have a simple question about the damage penalty you get when using a left hand axe without any LA spec. My SB wants to use 2 1H and be a crit blade, but people tell me I must have spec in LA, else I will lose X% damage on my main hand. How much do I need in LA to get rid of this penalty?

A: There isn't a penalty. Here's what one of our lead programmers had to say when I forwarded your question to him: "That's a very odd way of viewing it. That's like saying in order to get rid of the -1000% damage penalty my level one character has, I must reach level fifty and spec to fifty in such and such skill.

"You're not under a penalty for not training left axe, you just don't get the bonus that each extra train would give you. Wielding two weapons but not putting points into a dual wield type of skill isn't really a great idea…"

Taken from the herald...So CB can use 2 1H without having any mianhand penalty of 50% as many says...

 

[klavrynd]

purely technical he's right, there's no penalty not speccing la and using an offhander, you just get the normal damage for that spec, which is rubbish

 

[Thorarin]

Originally posted by klavrynd
purely technical he's right, there's no penalty not speccing la and using an offhander, you just get the normal damage for that spec, which is rubbish

No... There is a penalty, and it's not because of what you suggest here:

I've made a little log with my level 26 Shadowzerker (26 Axe, 26 LA). Weapons used are two 95% quality level 26 Handaxes (9.0 dps, 2.4 spd), to eliminate the hastening effect from the equation:

[02:24:02] You wield the mithril hand axe in your right hand.

[02:24:05] You enter combat mode and target [marine fungus]
[02:24:05] You attack marine fungus with your axe and hit for 65 (+33) damage!
[02:24:05] marine fungus dies!

[02:24:21] You enter combat mode and target [marine fungus]
[02:24:22] You attack marine fungus with your axe and hit for 65 (+40) damage!
[02:24:22] marine fungus dies!

[02:24:32] You enter combat mode and target [marine fungus]
[02:24:32] You attack marine fungus with your axe and hit for 65 (+29) damage!
[02:24:32] marine fungus dies!

[02:24:42] You wield the mithril hand axe in your left hand.

[02:24:48] You enter combat mode and target [marine fungus]
[02:24:48] You attack marine fungus with your axe and hit for 46 (+23) damage!
[02:24:48] marine fungus dies!

[02:25:08] You enter combat mode and target [marine fungus]
[02:25:08] You attack marine fungus with your axe and hit for 46 (+23) damage!
[02:25:08] marine fungus dies!

[02:25:27] You enter combat mode and target [marine fungus]
[02:25:27] You attack marine fungus with your axe and hit for 46 (+26) damage!
[02:25:27] marine fungus dies!


As you can see, both my LA and Axe spec are identical, so if damage on my main hand was suddenly determined by my LA spec instead of my Axe spec, it would not change at all. Instead, it drops pretty drastically.

On green con mobs I'm doing +/- 53-65 damage one handed, and +/- 63-88 dual wielding, total damage, unstyled. Both my left and right hand are doing identical damage here, so that confirms the grey con test.

I couldn't be arsed to find yellow cons at that time, but it's not any different. Sanya and the mentioned pot smoking lead programmer are just plain wrong.

 

[fl3a]

what the developer seems to be talking about is the LEFT HAND and not the RIGHT HAND. there are no penalties to the left hand (not counting the weapskill penalty) but right hand damage gets cut down by some % because left hand hits each round.

the massive style bonuses on LA used to balance it out before but when DF gives you 10 style bonus it sure isnt balancing anything

 

[garnax]

the question asked on my post is if he lose any dmg on his MIANHAND...that what the answer then must be about...

I will to some tests myself using 2 1H with no LA spec then using 1 1H..and see if mainhand loose dmg and how mutch if so

 

[garnax]

did a fast test against a 2 lvl lower player...

made 3 hits only with assult style on eathc type:

2 1H

51 + miss

62 +26

54+22 critt 7
______________
1H

92

92 + 23 critt

79

 

[Vell]

The programmer was right, he just has a very odd way of looking at it.....you don't loose damage by not speccing in LA.

However, you do GAIN damage if you DO spec in it.

Therefore, if you want to wield 2 weapons, to do maximum damage, you need to spec in both your main weapon AND Left Axe.

For every point you put in LA, you get a .5% damage bonus to each weapon - ie a total gain of 1% damage for each point you put in it.

If you don't spec in it, you don't get that bonus.

 

[Thorarin]

The programmer may have been right (depending how you look upon it), but the answer to the question is wrong.
Mainhand damage is being penalized.

 

[redknapp]

Well,

From what I have seen here, the following seems to be the case:

1h: base damage

2x1h, no LAspec: Same total damage, but the LA damage is basically "stolen" from the main hand

2x1h, with LAspec: 1h does same damage as it would alone, plus the offhand does LA damage on top.

From what i can see, for a SB, un-specced LA means an extra poison/proc/imbue carrier, but at the cost of mainhand damage to make up for the damage being done by the offhand. Considering how much an unspecced LA would miss, plus the fact that PA/CD are working with the mainhand weapon, id say that its a bad idea to go totally no LA if you wanna wield two weapons.

 

[garnax]

seems true m8

 

[Carlos Bananos]

get a SB with no LA spec

Equip a 1 Handed weapon (Nothing in offhand)
hit a lvl 1 mob, note dmg cap.

Equip an offhand weapon
hit lvl 1 mob, not lower dmg cap.



There is a penatly.

Even with 39+13 LA, my cap with a single 1 hander is lower than duel wielding...

 

[Carlos Bananos]

Originally posted by redknapp
Well,

From what I have seen here, the following seems to be the case:

1h: base damage

2x1h, no LAspec: Same total damage, but the LA damage is basically "stolen" from the main hand

2x1h, with LAspec: 1h does same damage as it would alone, plus the offhand does LA damage on top.

From what i can see, for a SB, un-specced LA means an extra poison/proc/imbue carrier, but at the cost of mainhand damage to make up for the damage being done by the offhand. Considering how much an unspecced LA would miss, plus the fact that PA/CD are working with the mainhand weapon, id say that its a bad idea to go totally no LA if you wanna wield two weapons.

posiblly, but offhand dmg is based on DPS and speed of offhand weapon, not spec

there is definatly a penalty to mainhand dmg, the dev just seemed to answer the 'wrong question' (either theres no penalty to offhand dmg, or you get the appropriate dmg for that spec..ie 1spec = shit dmg working as intended etc)