The TL report for SBs

[jox]

http://vnboards.ign.com/message.asp?topic=53154697&replies=60

In short words(from Mythic to all Left Axe Users);

We dont want you as customers.

 

[zmurf]

more la whine thread's, boy we missed these ... :/

 

[Pin]

The first thing I would like to comment on is poor baby Emma crying again.

Her screenie here: http://www.thevortex.demon.co.uk/lol-balanced_my_ass.jpg

Which is apparently showing how overpowered her FoTM slash inf is, doing 268 mainhand damage with Diamond Slash...


Well, if you look at the screenie you'll see "Krydd is defending wholeheatedly again." That's from the Reaver absorb debuff dropping (from my Reaver), so of course she'll hit hard while that's up, it adds like 30% damage to all melee.

 

[Carlos Bananos]

rofl we got owned ;<


tbh SBs are fine, only thing that 'maybe' needs looking at is armor tables, and possibly the debuffing disparity etc.

 

[Driwen]

they had the la nerf in testing for a long time and have seen several logs of how big it was. Do you think they would undo that within a few patches?

Even if it was to large, they would need to wait to see what effect their changes have. The change was rather large and now they will have to wait for the dust to settle down. Which is also what they said, we will watch this closely over the next 4-6 weeks.

Mythic has no grudge against midgard or vs any class or realm. They however wont change something and then immediatly undo it partially or fully. They will need to wait and be able to see what state the sb's are in now. Besides SB's will need to change templates and see how they work out, on the US server every active sb would have done that. But it will take some time to get the tactics right. Besides the SB in the usa is still not a real underplayed character and doing reasonable on the average last weeks rp's.

 

[Carlos Bananos]

Originally posted by Pin
The first thing I would like to comment on is poor baby Emma crying again.

Her screenie here: http://www.thevortex.demon.co.uk/lol-balanced_my_ass.jpg

Which is apparently showing how overpowered her FoTM slash inf is, doing 268 mainhand damage with Diamond Slash...


Well, if you look at the screenie you'll see "Krydd is defending wholeheatedly again." That's from the Reaver absorb debuff dropping (from my Reaver), so of course she'll hit hard while that's up, it adds like 30% damage to all melee.

Emma is a whining fotm fucktard.

LA rlly isn't as bad postpatch as ppl seem to think....so my comebackl dmg cap gets reduced from 560ish to 350-400.

 

[minime_]

The thing about dex/qui debuff poisons sounds good :>

 

[Pin]

Seriously, I see nothing at all wrong with the responses from Mythic. The responses look exactly the same as the responses to almost all other TL reports.

They basically say "we have no _specfic_ plans for this, but will be looking at the whole area in general". This is how all public-service replies are structured from just about all companies. Otherwise you get bad feedback saying that you promised something to the customers.


Mythic will look at things in general. At ALL style lines. TBH, I would be heartened to read that they are now considering looking at the enervating debuff disparity.

 

[Haldar]

"we will do nothing now. we will help u later. maybe. thx for playing dark age of camelot".

and Pin, ur absorb debuff imho is not an issue. look at last line - only half of which is shown. i'm sure that bonus damage listed there is (+82) or (+92), which is more than (+75) 2 rounds earlier.

Carlos Bananos, i wouldn't say Emma is "whining fotm fucktard." She fights for postnerf SB parity too - but from other side of the barricade - trying to show that infis are much stronger "than intended" (c) Mythic. i've never landed a mainhand swing of 268 on 50 lvl Infiltrator without str relics.

 

[jox]

Originally posted by Carlos Bananos
Emma is a whining fotm fucktard.

LA rlly isn't as bad postpatch as ppl seem to think....so my comebackl dmg cap gets reduced from 560ish to 350-400.

Comeback 560? plz be serious, I have seen some of your posts when you hit people in equal level fr 500+ but that aint you beeing uber, its a bug that appears from time to time, Ztyx have a couple of screenies with that kind of damage too. In fact, it happend to me too recently; I backstabbed Osrim for a absurd amount of damage that was way over my cap for bs.

I have talked to Goa about it and they are "looking in to it".

But yes, from time to time we do insane damage on people but thats becasue they are Lvl 47 unbuffed saracen wardens with epic that hardly can find there way to amg. Take a look on the damages when you hit "serious" targets instead...

It aint the laxe thats need a nerf its the relics. When the albs had the relics I could loose against low-rank-infils just becasue I hadnt Purge up.

And yes Pin, Enervating is twice as powerful on sbs :/ I loose 462 hit points and my weapon skill in a blink of an eye.

But this wasnt meant to be whinethread, I just wanted to show fellow sbs the report. It is like it is, and there is nothing I can do about it except to try to adapt or reroll. Its just a bit tragic that the char you like get weaker and weaker for every patch, its supposed to be the other way around.

 

[Pin]

Originally posted by Hroft[BC]
and Pin, ur absorb debuff imho is not an issue. look at last line - only half of which is shown. i'm sure that bonus damage listed there is (+82) or (+92), which is more than (+75) 2 rounds earlier.

The spell is a PBAE pulse. It gives no message when it pulses (every 5s), or when it takes effect on a target, only when it drops. I would put money on it having pulsed again between the message and her second Amethyst. (No real indication of what else was going on at the time either, as most of the messages have been filtered).

Originally posted by Hroft[BC]
Carlos Bananos, i wouldn't say Emma is "whining fotm fucktard." She fights for postnerf SB parity too - but from other side of the barricade - trying to show that infis are much stronger "than intended" (c) Mythic. i've never landed a mainhand swing of 268 on 50 lvl Infiltrator without str relics.

The only posts I have read from her have been completely biased, giving half-information, inaccurate data, or just plain lies. This is just another example of trying to base an argument on half the information.

 

[Runolaz]

Well at least they said they will look at the styles in genaral /point @ Dragonfang/Diamondback and I wouldn't be surprised they got a swing of the "nerfbat" in the near future. They also took notice of the effects of Str-debuff that hits SB x2 hard as INF/NS speccing Thrust.

 

[Ironfoot]

Originally posted by Pin

The only posts I have read from her have been completely biased, giving half-information, inaccurate data, or just plain lies. This is just another example of trying to base an argument on half the information.

This may be the case PIN but these half lies and bullshit were all it really took to get SB's nerfed in the 1st place..

whats the matter ? getting scared that you may be next ?

 

[Pin]

Originally posted by Ironfoot
This may be the case PIN but these half lies and bullshit were all it really took to get SB's nerfed in the 1st place..

whats the matter ? getting scared that you may be next ?

Firstly, if you really believe that classes or speclines are nerfed due to public opinion and vocal whiners, then
Mythic spent months analysing logs and data before making any changes. It was not based on VNboard whines.


Secondly, which of my chars would I be scared of getting nerfed? If you are meaning my Infiltrator, then so what? I haven't played him for 5 months due to him being too easy, too boring, and the class being far too heavily populated. If you mean my Wizard of Reaver, then... ¿Que?

I'm not in the habit of rolling a class to beat everything. I play the game to have fun and if it's too easy it's not fun.

 

[mirak_naijmi]

I wont comment anything of this disscussion anymore since im not sure whos right and wrong. All you say makes sense Pin but if i think logical...

The rr6 infils that run around buffed(which means they should be the same as me) i never beat with like 90% HP left exept in extreme cases(i get PA in or get them stunned or something which the might happen to me to) its actually more like an equal fight(sure there are people that are gimped ). And the times i beat them its with like 10-20% left. And if they then reduce my damage with 40%(ok say 20% cause thats about what we loose in reality) Then im suddenly at 0% all the even fights right?

I dont know what i think, maybe this is a good thing since i have myself got these extreme 3-shots with just dfrost which feels wrong. But when i get it its on like wardens unbuffed and with like crit on every hit. And i remember myself as a lowrr unbuffed sb getting 3-shotted by guess who? Pin! I will wait and see before i whine

Favorite:

The one line respec provided as a result of the Left Axe reduction is problematic in changing to another viable template in some cases, due to the number of speclines and the highly interdependent nature of said speclines. This results in a player not able to fully adjust their spec to a new one after the LA reduction.

*We understand the situation but do not plan on offering additional respecs. *

 

[vintervargen]

Originally posted by minime_
The thing about dex/qui debuff poisons sounds good :>

sure, so archers yet again becomes the loosers

 

[Haldar]

http://vnboards.ign.com/message.asp?topic=53193965&replies=6

 

[Ironfoot]

Matt Frior can suck my dick

 

[vintervargen]

are any SB's in US actually complaining of their reduced dmg or are they doing ok

 

[Haldar]

most have quit.

 

[Ironfoot]

or rerolled SM / BD / Savage

 

[vintervargen]

Originally posted by Hroft[BC]
most have quit.

guess only the ones that likes the class and got a playingstyle that fits the SB class will stay then. the "i-want-to-pwn" guys will roll savages.

 

[Pin]

Originally posted by mirak_naijmi
The rr6 infils that run around buffed(which means they should be the same as me) i never beat with like 90% HP left exept in extreme cases(i get PA in or get them stunned or something which the might happen to me to) its actually more like an equal fight(sure there are people that are gimped ). And the times i beat them its with like 10-20% left. And if they then reduce my damage with 40%(ok say 20% cause thats about what we loose in reality) Then im suddenly at 0% all the even fights right?

Well, firstly when trying to estimate what damage reductions you'll see you need to consider that the nerf was not a 30/40% across-the-board damage reduction. It was a ~40% reduction to style bonus damage only. This distinction is very important for Shadowblades in particular.

What it means is for those characters who were relying on style bonus damage to do the VAST majority of their damage, they will see the largest drop in damage output (up to 35%), the chars whose damage came from other sources will not be as effected (as low as 10%).

The ones who are most effected are ones who have the highest LA skill and the lowest Quickness. In other words, low-qui Zerks and Shadowzerks will see a large reduction.

Most Shadowblades spec to 39 LA for Frosty Gaze. This is 11 points lower than most Zerks spec, and 5 points lower than most Shadowzerks. Thus have lower style bonuses.

Most Shadowblades max their Quickness due to evade and do more damage over time but with lower single hits and style bonuses.

Most Shadowblades spec for PA and CD to do damage. This is unaffected.

Most Shadowblades spec for poisons. Damage from DoTs and benefits from other poisons are unaffected.

A Shadowblade in 1.62 is still a dangerous character, can still kill most, and is still too easy to play (like all assassins).

I don't know if you can stomach actually reading some of the US boards, but if you were to read through them you'll see an occasional SB saying that very little has changed for him, that he still kills lots, etc... Unfortunately these tend to be completely drowned by the fotm whiners who constantly cry and cry cos their rattles have been taken away. Then there are the ones who make a big song and dance about having sold/cancelled the accounts, etc. Mostly those boards are full of wankers.

Originally posted by mirak_naijmi
I dont know what i think, maybe this is a good thing since i have myself got these extreme 3-shots with just dfrost which feels wrong. But when i get it its on like wardens unbuffed and with like crit on every hit. And i remember myself as a lowrr unbuffed sb getting 3-shotted by guess who? Pin! I will wait and see before i whine

Yes, I'm not going to disagree that Infs are too easy to play aswell. It's one of the main reasons I quit. Even if you are completely clueless and skillless you can rake in RPs and hit RR6 in a couple of months. I work full-time and only play a few hours in the evening, and on weekends, but I consistently made 250-300k per week and if I hadn't got completely bored and quit I would probably have about 8 million on Pin now. There's just no challenge.

And because there is no challenge in it, there are far too many people playing assassins. Currently there's probably 10x as many as I would consider a sensible number. Anything that reduces the number of assassins playing is good for the game as a whole and is good for the assassin game in particular. Myself, I don't want to be 'just one of the crowd', and as the crowd is not going to go anywhere anytime soon, I left instead.



I would say that if you are truly playing an assassin because you enjoy the class and are good at playing the class then you'll stay and do well. If you are only playing an assassin because it's easy and to OMFGWTFPWN everyone then you'll probably cry a river and/or quit.

My advise is to listen to people who are rational, not the ones who are obviously whinging kiddies and 'fotm fucktards'.



(And yes, I think SBs should probably have been given 2 single-line respecs... but there are many ways to get a respec stone in the current US version)

 

[vintervargen]

pin you r0x so much im gonna put you in my sig

 

[Haldar]

according my my calculations, my own damage will drop by 23.5% unbuffed and slightly less % buffed (too lazy to count)

i mean total damage over time ofc.

 

[Pin]

Originally posted by Hroft[BC]
according my my calculations, my own damage will drop by 23.5% unbuffed and slightly less % buffed (too lazy to count)

i mean total damage over time ofc.

what's your spec? what's your stats? what do you mean by total?

 

[Haldar]

total damage = base + styled

i am 5-spec

37+11 axe, 39+4 LA, 34 cs, 36+11 stl, 33+11 env.

i am RR6 now, but i dont remember new values, so im basing it on RR5 with +4 to skills

52 ax 47 la 38 cs 50 stl 47 env
WS 927 with 173 str

unbuffed, my DF cap was 427, my unstyled - 177, which means 250 styled damage. LA styles have been reduced in dmg by approx 40%, so this will give me 250*0.6 = 150 new style bonus, with 327 damage total. and 327 is 23.5% lower than 427.

if i am buffed, the % of decrease will be lower bcoz of higher qui-->faster swings-->lesser part of styled damage in total damage.

btw, those numbers correspond nicely with reality. One of SBs wrote on Midgard Rogue Forum that before nerf his DF cap was 42x and it became 321 after patch.

 

[Pin]

Originally posted by Hroft[BC]
total damage = base + styled

i am 5-spec

37+11 axe, 39+4 LA, 34 cs, 36+11 stl, 33+11 env.

i am RR6 now, but i dont remember new values, so im basing it on RR5 with +4 to skills

52 ax 47 la 38 cs 50 stl 47 env
WS 927 with 173 str

unbuffed, my DF cap was 427, my unstyled - 177, which means 250 styled damage. LA styles have been reduced in dmg by approx 40%, so this will give me 250*0.6 = 150 new style bonus, with 327 damage total. and 327 is 23.5% lower than 427.

if i am buffed, the % of decrease will be lower bcoz of higher qui-->faster swings-->lesser part of styled damage in total damage.

btw, those numbers correspond nicely with reality. One of SBs wrote on Midgard Rogue Forum that before nerf his DF cap was 42x and it became 321 after patch.

Okay... Firstly, why haven't you capped +skills on your gear? You would get a MASSIVE gain to your current damage if you did.


But anyway... As I pointed out above, you are not looking at total damage there. You are merely looking at melee damage done with your mainhand. If you add 90 points for offhand (I don't know what your offhand cap is) that's 417 vs 517, which brings it to 19.4%. If you then count poisons, weapon procs, damage adds/shields, etc, it's a smaller percentage. And as you said, getting quickness or haste buffed greatly reduces the percentage again.

When saying 'total' you cannot just look at your mainhand damage. If you win a good fight with 20% health left now you will still win that fight next patch, but maybe with 5-10% left.

You have NOT had your total damage reduced by 20%+.

 

[Haldar]

i havent capped all skills bcoz this is 1.54 suit. I was one of the first SBs on Exc to drop epic armor and make SC. So no SI jewelry, no TG items, 99% qua armor pieces....but armor is nice anyway. 72+ to all stats, cap melee, body and matter resists, 200 hp, +11 axe +4 LA + 10 stl/env.

I have a new suit of armor ready, got almost all caped on it. +11 to all skills, 200 hp, stats 75+ except qui which is 72, all resists 26% except 3 which are 25%.

my offhand cap was 77 at RR5, 78 now.

and yes, u are right about all extra damage which left unaffected by LA styled nerf. Throw in the extra power of buffbots with the cap removal - and the future will not look so grim. Tho "8 SB disadvantages" should be corrected anyway.

Time will tell....

 

[old.Emma]

Originally posted by Carlos Bananos
Emma is a whining fotm fucktard.

LA rlly isn't as bad postpatch as ppl seem to think....so my comebackl dmg cap gets reduced from 560ish to 350-400.

You sir are an asshole.

Hardest ive hit a level 50 Infil for with my SB is using comeback which did 359 dmg that was an extremely lucky hit and something that doesnt happen often. Not sure how i managed a hit like that either he sat down cos he was loose`n or i hit a poor piece of his armour.

http://www.thevortex.demon.co.uk/sshot051.jpg

That is a bit much tbh, was a very hard hit against a level 50 but it happens rarely.

Now look at this.

http://www.thevortex.demon.co.uk/48inf-vs-50rr5zerk.jpg

Post nurf SB`s LA damage will be pathetic and any infil worth his weight in gold will be able to kick there ass's, those that do remain playing will either respec to some gimped 5-spec variation (high weap/cs little to no LA spec) or go CB. neither of which can compete well with an infil that has specced well.

SB`s spec to kill other assassins (SZ) some spec as allrounders (5-spec) and a very small number spec as CB.

Spec an infil to kill other assassins and im sure they will do fine. Sxx seems to do pretty well, i dont seem to have much trouble in 1 vs 1 fights.

If a cookie cutter Thrust inf gets there ass handed to them by a SZ. What can you expect you specced for CS attacks, cant expect to go into a fight and win without using your CS attacks when the SB is specced for pure melee.

And Pin public opinion on a class does have a large impact on wether or not a class gets "looked into"