The Third Reich: you've fought the war, now eat the curry!

[Chronictank]

Were did I say I didn't want free speech?
I'm perfectly aware of Sharon's crimes, I am a member of the Irish Palestinian Solidarity Movement and have visited the middle east as well as raised money for Palestinian families.

I have said on at least 2 occasions in this thread that Trash has the right to be trash.
So don't try to paint me as someone who wants something banned simply because I do not agree with it.

apologies in that case, you didnt come across that way to me,

 

[tris-]

Tris: It's not about the jews caring. It's about completely ignoring the symbolic value of Hitler. Associating Hitler (and thus nazism and the holocaust) with something acceptable and enjoyable (going out for dinner) is wrong. References to such cruel things do not belong in such a context.

i see your point, but in the grand scheme of things does it really matter at all if this one restraunt is called hitlers cross?

maybe when you looked, you immediatley associated it with these things. me personally, those things didnt come in to my mind. i really dont care either way what its called but i will stand up for the fact that i think its ok to call it that.
you cant be blamed for that. im sure when most people see something like this they will imediatley think of the bad shit.

but untill he starts cooking up flame grilled jews on a bed of ham, i dont see a problem.

should probably add i dont support what hitler did with killing jews and what not. what i do respect was his level of intelligence and the other qualities people dont give a shit about when the person did wrong.

 

[old.Tohtori]

Tooo much stuff to quote and respond to...hell..this would probably need atleast three different threads.

But, let's try.

Aitael,

About the crimes you mentioned, each country has done the same thing to a degree. Most recently the United States is doing a bit of invading in the name of "freedom".

About starting a "hug hitler club", i do believe his good points are often forgotten by the bad things he did. Not saying he was a "good guy", but certainly had some good points.

To noblok, As you saw from the immidiate reaction from Aitael, you really couldn't discuss the good points without being branded..well...a hitlerhugger.

Funny how that turned out.

But i do understand where you're coming from, both of you.

Aitael thinks it's trash, simple as that.

noblok believes this is a wrong context to put the hitler brand on.

It doesn't mean that it's the right opinion, 'cause there really is none.

 

[Aiteal]

Tooo much stuff to quote and respond to...hell..this would probably need atleast three different threads.

But, let's try.

Aitael,

About the crimes you mentioned, each country has done the same thing to a degree. Most recently the United States is doing a bit of invading in the name of "freedom".

About starting a "hug hitler club", i do believe his good points are often forgotten by the bad things he did. Not saying he was a "good guy", but certainly had some good points.

Believe me, I am no fan of US foriegn policy to say the least, I abhor imperialism wether it be propagated at the end of a gun or at the end of an economic gun, its all the same shit.
I'm sick and fecking tired of seeing people in the middle east blown to pieces with bombs that my taxes pay for.
I'm retch when I hear Bush say that muslims are "willing to kill civilians to further their political aims" without a hint of irony.
I almost cry when I hear them talk about overthrowning dictators is a good thing and then train and arm Islam Karimovs death squads just so they have airports to bomb Afganistan from.

His "good points" are forgotten because they are so far outweighed by his bad points.

I'll just say this and no more.
I don't think the restaurant should be closed down, if people want to go there that is up to them, I for one, find it crass and insensitive and wouldn't cross the road to piss on the place.

 

[noblok]

Tris: Yes, it doesn't cause any harm, but that's not what's wrong about it. It ignores the symbolic value and that's a bad thing in itself. By ignoring the symbolic value of things, you undermine all morale or at least the correct interpretation of it.


Tohtori: I agree that Aiteal's reaction was ad hominem, but this is bound to happen when you discuss things people feel strongly about. It doesn't mean that it's wrong to discuss such things, it merely means he disagrees with your opinion. There's a difference though between saying "Yes, Hitler did terrible things, but he did have decent economic politics" and opening a restaurant called Hitler's cross. In a discussion you take the scientific point of view, which means that things are reduced to the facts and the symbolic is overlooked.

(Note that the scientific point of view and the moral point of view are two different points of view which can't be assumed at the same time.)

 

[Levin]

If you want to go into symbology,
The swastika is an ancient good luck symbol associated with Hinduism, Buddhism and a multitude of oriental traditions far before the Nazi utilised it, by continually using it in reference to Nazi Germany you are ruining its true meaning. but then good luck doesnt sell papers

So you're saying the restaurant owner is ruining the true meaning of the swastika then, by reminding us that Hitler kind of used it and exposed it about a billion times more than any aztecs ever could?

I think the comparison with the Muhammed drawings is a decent one. However, I was never against the right for the muslims to complain about those drawings, just like jews and others complain about using Hitler's name. I defend the right of the restaurant owner to keep the name, but i also defend people's right to be upset about it, as long as they don't break any laws (such as burning the place). Let the man's bad taste speak for itself - the food there probably sucks!

 

[Cozak]

So let me get this straight, Jews all over the world are doing their very best to make sure no-body forgets the atrocities that happened during the holocaust and then when somebody does something which, evidently, makes people remember the holocaust its the worst thing to ever happen? ...riiiight..
Its a restaurant name, he gave reasons to why he chose it in the article (conquering the world thing) if you dont like it then you dont have to go. Its marketting genious imo.

 

[Dreamor]

Wasn't the Swasticka (sp?) a religous symbol before the Nazi's used it?
So technically having Hitler on it may well be the only real issue, but i agree... who cares.
Theres worse things happening in the world than worrying about a name above a place.
Agree on the marketing part, its like the Nintendo White (the whole "White is coming") - everyone is talking about it = missions accomplished.

 

[old.Tohtori]

Aiteal, fair enough andd that's nothing i can really dictate or say against.

You're not really against me anyway. And everyone has the right to choose their crap of place. Or place of crap.

noblok, you're quite riht alos. I do take a less emotional side of things. Probably because i don't have such high(not a bad thing) and strong(not a bad thing also) moral thinking.

when i'm so loose in my morals and ways of life, science is really the only discussing method.

Glad to see people ain't going little kid of year 5 here and can actually discuss SUCH an issue.

 

[Tasslehoff]

probably cos they feel pressurised into it now.

they have to be PC or all the countries will stop buying their danish bacon and what not

Yep, in Denmark we have an agreement to further our standing with other nations so we can sell more bacon, you got that right!

dont see any argumet for taking it down tbh en-light of rescent events

You go on about people defending the danish cartoon-drawers rights are hypocrits by defending this, but you were the one whining about the cartoons and now you're saying putting up a hitler-cross is fine!
Hypocrisy in it's finest form!

 

[Garok]

I think were missing the real point here though.. would Hitler have approved of haveing a curry house after him ??

 

[old.Tohtori]

I think were missing the real point here though.. would Hitler have approved of haveing a curry house after him ??

Actually that's one helluva good point.

He would've probably killed all who tried to force him to eat at a foreign diner.

He sure did love his zauerkraut and bratwurst

 

[Lamp]

If ppl wanna use this thread to air their antisemitism, go take it to your nearest Combat 18 web site pls. I dont wanna read that shit here.

 

[Chronictank]

Yep, in Denmark we have an agreement to further our standing with other nations so we can sell more bacon, you got that right!


You go on about people defending the danish cartoon-drawers rights are hypocrits by defending this, but you were the one whining about the cartoons and now you're saying putting up a hitler-cross is fine!
Hypocrisy in it's finest form!

read the thing you quoted me on...
rather silly trying to flame me when you answer yourself on the bit you quote making yourself look like a muppet.
I didnt say in any of my posts it was fine, i simply put forward the argument that if one is ok then so is the other

If ppl wanna use this thread to air their antisemitism, go take it to your nearest Combat 18 web site pls. I dont wanna read that shit here.

your not actually reading the thread anyway, this was covered a few pages back

 

[Tasslehoff]

It's fine you call me a muppet, but I just didn't figure I'd be seeing you saying there were no arguments for taking down the restaurant after you were all over the other thread saying freedom of speech was supposed to be followed with respect and so on.
Just didn't think you were one of the people saying "either full free speech or no free speech".
But I may remember wrongly!
Never mind, couldn't care less about arguing with someone who has to put in a "you're a muppet" or some other namecalling in their arguments.

 

[Chronictank]

It's fine you call me a muppet, but I just didn't figure I'd be seeing you saying there were no arguments for taking down the restaurant after you were all over the other thread saying freedom of speech was supposed to be followed with respect and so on.
Just didn't think you were one of the people saying "either full free speech or no free speech".
But I may remember wrongly!
Never mind, couldn't care less about arguing with someone who has to put in a "you're a muppet" or some other namecalling in their arguments.

firstly i said you made yourself look like one for the above reason i didnt have to call you anything (once again not reading properly, soryr to be harsh but thats how its coming across to me),
you dont have to believe in something to see the other side of the fence so to speak, the fact of the matter is the Danish cartoon was supported therefore so should the name of this resteraunt regardless how distasteful it is and how many people it offended.
i said all or nothing in this thread, in support of the sign because of rescent events, it could say "all x should be shot" and it should still be allowed to be left alone because of the whole cartoon issue which has created the attitude that it is perfectly ok to offend whoever.


i personally believe that freedom of speech doesnt come without responsibility, but thats digressing from the point as in reality it is fine to piss off whoever you want by printing/publishing whoever you want. This is the society we live in

 

[Raven]

If ppl wanna use this thread to air their antisemitism, go take it to your nearest Combat 18 web site pls. I dont wanna read that shit here.

as usual dare to disagree with a particuler minority group and you get labeled a racist. boring, old and very patronising.

 

[Raven]

A little insensitive imo. Try telling that to a Holocaust survivor "Sorry, you whining lefty, can you stop going on about your family getting gassed. Get over it".

i am not talking about holocaust survivors, i am talking about whining lefties who have nothing better to do than read the guardian and complain.

 

[Aiteal]

i am not talking about holocaust survivors, i am talking about whining lefties who have nothing better to do than read the guardian and complain.

maybe so
but it wasnt it Indian Guardian Readers assosiation that brought this to peoples attention.
It was the Indian Jewish Assosiation.

So its probably safe to say that jewish people find it offensive, and to agree with them does not make one a whiny lefty guardian reader.
If anything it displays a little empathy for people who find this offensive with good reason.

 

[Huntingtons]

ah finally this guy is talking sense why didnt you do this all the time in the past?

no one has really given a good argument yet why this shouldnt be allowed.

"its insensitive" - so is everything else we do in life but no one really gives a fuck about that. having christians ram shit down my throat that i cant bone a slut before im married or i will goto hell. i find that insensitive, because what they are telling me is im worthless.

"its offensive" - jesus, everything is offensive these days isnt it. dont say black board, dont say brain storm, dont wave a st george flag, dont say "black person". what can you say and do these days?

"the place is using hitler and the swastika to make money in the wrong way" - why does no one remember hitler didnt only kill thousands of people. maybe some of you should go get a history lesson or read wikipedia.

"the jews dont like it" - heck, do the jews like anything? apart from blow jobs and pieces of gold ofc. if one set of people dont like something does that mean it shouldnt exist anymore? :-\

to me you seem a bit antisemitic. you say thousand of people, but its around million? (i got a few anti semitic friends, i know how they sound) i agree on some of it tho, people get so easily offended etc. but that doesnt, imo, justify the usage of the nazi swastika (yes its the nazi coz they turned it xx% degree, its not the original swastika). It is perfectly legal to use it, and he's smart that he does for the free pr. but you have to remember that india is a muslim country, and muslims arent exactly penpals with the jews. this is such a widespread subject (the jew part) and cba to go into details now

and i could imagine that many of the people here defended dk's freedom of speech now is against this like already mentioned well, im against both, but i found both amusing.

 

[Chronictank]

but you have to remember that india is a muslim country, and muslims arent exactly penpals with the jews. this is such a widespread subject (the jew part) and cba to go into details now
.

its not at all, India is a predonminantly Hindu country.

Hindu 77.69%, Muslim 16.20%, Christian 2.31%, Sikh 1.85%, Buddhists 0.77%, Jains 0.41 %, Others or not stated 0.76% (2001 Census)

Pakistan is a predominantly muslim country which is on India's border

 

[tris-]

If ppl wanna use this thread to air their antisemitism, go take it to your nearest Combat 18 web site pls. I dont wanna read that shit here.

lamp, what the mother fucking hell is wrong with you? no one has been anti-semetic here. for fuck sake you cant say anything or someone will label you this or that.

am i anti-semetic because i admired hitlers intelligence and the good things he did?

jesus fucking christ and jahova (before someone calls me anti christian )

to me you seem a bit antisemitic. you say thousand of people, but its around million?

for fuck sake. now you get a number wrong and you obviously hate every single jew with a passion. i really am sick of defending my self to the mother fucking PC brigade.

OO DONT SAY ANYTHING, IT MAY OFFEND SOMEONE.

guess what, they can suck my cock.

but now the jews, because they can only suck the cocks of other jews.

(see there, thats a joke before you jump on my back and stab a 12" blade through it)

now if the anti cannabis brigade will excuse me, im going to chill out.

 

[tris-]

i rememberd something else i wanted to mention too. people get knocked for making jokes about jewish figures. yet one form of jewish humour is speciffically about mocking them selves and others and the things within their religion.

yet we cant do the same? how weird :/

 

[Huntingtons]

Could probably get away with a Stalin Fast Food joint.

Bolshevik Burger easy on the pickles....

Less Colonel Sanders and more Comrade Sanders.

now thats something i could see happening.

its not at all, India is a predonminantly Hindu country.

Pakistan is a predominantly muslim country which is on India's border

yeah in my original post i wrote that they were hindu, but had a great minority of muslims, but i pasted something else and lost it

for fuck sake. now you get a number wrong and you obviously hate every single jew with a passion. i really am sick of defending my self to the mother fucking PC brigade.

im sick and tired of jews, but you just seem to have been over the edge (could of been of sheer typing madness who knows, but sounded very antisemetic)

 

[Huntingtons]

Quite right. Like i said, a Truman deli would be a-ok in people's books...even though the bugger ordered not one, but TWO a-bombs.

now the difference is that, truman does not imply that you're a a-bomb loving warmonging sick fuck (he wasnt, but it sounded nice). Now if it was called Truman deli and pictures of hiroshima and mushroom clouds outside, that would offend people. Hitler is a well known name, and when people hear the name, they normally think of nazi's. thats why it offends people.

If you want to go into symbology,
The swastika is an ancient good luck symbol associated with Hinduism, Buddhism and a multitude of oriental traditions far before the Nazi utilised it, by continually using it in reference to Nazi Germany you are ruining its true meaning. but then good luck doesnt sell papers

if you want to go into symbogy (is it called that). yes the swastika was that. but the nazi swastika (turn x amount of degrees) is associated with holocaust, with death of millions of jews (this can be discussed on holocaust denial forums, or here if any wants), the invasion of whole europa and much of russia ++. you see the differene?

 

[Basic_X]

Seems like the resturant need to change its name after all:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/5275866.stm

 

[Svartmetall]

Seems like the resturant need to change its name after all:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/5275866.stm

Not colossally surprised by that move

 

[Lamp]

Seems like the resturant need to change its name after all:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/5275866.stm

Good

 

[old.Tohtori]

"The opening of a restaurant with such a name has shocked us and all right thinking persons around the world,"

Kinda narrowminded to say.

Anyhoop, what's the new name? Would love if he called it something like Jewkebabs just to f*ck with them

 

[Lamp]

How about The Asshole ?