The slow & painful death of a scout

[korhal]

well all my scout mates i'm sad
i just hit level 20 so happy and all (soon 21 !)
but till i saw this webpage =\
i dont know that i should do

http://gt7.net/daoc/death_of_a_scout.html

guys read..and learn *sniff sniff*

we will get nerfs like hell !

GOA please do some thing =\

 

[Verena]

Don't worry, the guy who wrote that is one of the posters on the IGN boards and we all know we shouldn't take the IGN posters too serious.

Yes scouts are no longer the solo RvR gods they used to be but they are still a VERY viable class. Ooh dear, you're forced to group, that must mean they totally nerfed you and you lost all viability. NOT.

Problem with this guy is that he started his scout right in the early days of DAoC when scouts were completly, utterly uber. Yes it must suck for him to loose his uberness but that doesn't mean a scout is no longer good to play. Don't believe everything you read, especially not from US players.

 

[SilverHood]

Ooh dear, you're forced to group, that must mean they totally nerfed you and you lost all viability. NOT.

Try playing as a scout, and see how easy it is to group

 

[korhal]

well..

i dont know what about him
but i love to group and pull mobs...really fun and you meet new people
and its hard to solo anyway

about RVR...i dont know what i should do with stealth..
i guess i will max anyway
who knows..

and after i saw all the feedbacks i feel bad
but hey i have time till GOA gonna translate all the versions =)

but anyway thanks =)

 

[old.mattshanes]

scouts will never die they are dam good fun

 

[Verena]

Originally posted by SilverHood


Try playing as a scout, and see how easy it is to group

I ment grouping in RvR, scout PvE viability is nothing wrong with. I've seen lots of scouts in groups and I've had em in my own group too lots of times.

Yes, when there's allready another scout in group you might get refused but that goes for other classes as well. Even with my minstrel it happens.

 

[old.Wicoa]

Ohhh noooo not this link yet again.

You know why this guy in the link is ranting and raving, one reason cause the muppet took stealth to level 50 now he complains about getting caught by an assasin.

For a scout stealth yields no skill like it does for an assasin (Infiltrator e.g climbing walls) all it does for us is increase our chances of loading stealthed and not being caught by high levels.

Archers and Assasins will be exceptional soloers in rvr for a heck of a long time to come, even with assasins being able to see you, who says you can't hide and shoot from a distance. Here's a novel idea <rolls eyes> take a couple of other stealthers perhaps even one with stealth detection.

My stealth is at 20 with bonuses its close to 28/30 and I have had whole mid armies (high cons) run through me about 3 times. Not that I liked it, one occasion was when I just logged in, had to push that stealth button damn fast.

So hmm now I can put my spec points in other things like well erm weapons, shield for slam and longbow.

Stealth to 50 even with 1.45 for a scout = Gimped Character

Play the game how you want, no-one gets massively gimped, (except clerics 50% off damage is rough <lowers head to smite clerics>)

Cheers
Wicoa

 

[Uncle Sick(tm)]

True- it is hard to find a group as an archer (hunter in my case)... but if you spec properly, in other words not neglecting your melee skills, you can still solo yellows and low oranges.

And one doesn't need to group after hitting level 20. It is just going a little slower... that's all.

True- archers will never die. Too much fun playing them little lurkers

Yours,

Troll

 

[SFXman]

Well I for one am not ditching stealth due tot he upcoming see hidden but I am also most certainly not taking it up to 50...
I was thinking 45-50 bow, 42 shield, 36-40 stealth and 18 thrust... I still find stealth useful, not like assassins will be everywhere anyways. One thing I do regret is that EVEN NOW assassins kill scouts VERY VERY easily... I noticed this on the last BG with my L35 scout. I didn't even see the damn assassin although I was going right towards him... all of a sudden I get all this damage and poison, rendering me completely helpless. I begin to wonder why they even need a separate see hidden because if you ask me they are already pretty damn good... in other words scouts will be nerfed and assassins made better and already: assassins > archers. I fail to see the logic tbh... but anyhoo, still fun to play.

 

[korhal]

hmm

am i doing right ?
i mean the spec

maxing longbow
maxing stealth
10 to shield
and rest to thrust

thats good enough ?


well could be nice if we will have TrueSight against assasins...

 

[SFXman]

Uh... 10 shield and rest to thrust. I really do not recommend this mate
First of all, you are not going to kill anything in melee (trust me ) and at 18 thrust you get a de-taunt which will be useful in PvE if you are pulling (as you might know a purple will down a scout in no-time if it attacks). So 18 thrust really is enough...
About maxing stealth.... well the thing is that, like was said earlier, the scout doesn't gain anything from stealth, just more chance of not being seen and a smaller "bubble" in which he can be spotted... SO taking that into account the item stealth bonuses give you this and thus 36-40 stealth is easily enough (items + realm ranks will get you very near or to 50).
Maxing longbow is fine... you will get the maximum damage output possible and since you opt for low thrust (useless anyhoo) you need all the damage you can get to possibly down the target with your bow already.
42 shield is a very good thing... if someone does get right up to you, you may then use the stun move which you get at L42 shield which may be used from any direction at any time... this move will give you time to move back and get a few normal arrows in which should kill the target since you already battered him earlier with your bow... BUT if you were suprised and the target has full health you may stun him and run away after which you hide.

Just my opinions on the matter....

 

[Verena]

The problem with scouts and grouping is that when scouts were still completly uber every account had an alt scout in it. I still see a lot of scouts and I think that's also a reason why they don't get groups that easy, there's just too many of them. Same goes for minstrels, I reached a point in my early 20's where it was hard to find a group due to the fact that there were soo many minstrels around my level at that time. I've outleveled them lucky enough so I'm back to the point where there's always demand for a minstrel somewhere in Lyonesse.

Allthough scouts can tank pretty neat against yellows/oranges, against purples they are either gonna die real fast or drain the clerics of their power. When you have a nice setup with a few tanks/cleric/mages then scouts are always very welcome for the fact that they're extremly nice damage dealers as long as they don't take agro on the wrong moments.

I just don't buy that, "hard to find a group and it's all everyone else's fault" stuff anymore. Bring stealth to 50 and you'll gimp yourself and groups will notice that too. The only reason why someone will bring stealth to 50 is cause they want to be a RvR god and when you choose to gimp your char for RvR then accept that you're gonna suck in PvE and indeed add nothing to a group.

/rant off

 

[korhal]

ahh..

i want to be god in rvr

and well SFX man is kinda right
i will go for bow max
stealth 40
thrust 18 and
shield 42

hope its good enough in RVR...

 

[Alrindel]

He does have a point that the archer class's role as hidden scout will have been all but removed from the game. Yes, we are still useful in keep raids (I can deal out a lot of damage fast to keep guards without all the running around that the tanks have to do, I can interrupt casters and enemy archers on the wall, and in between I can stand well back and plunk arrow after arrow into the door). Sure, we are still deadly at sniping and picking off stragglers and loners running around in the frontier. Yes, in a group we can contribute high ranged damage to help our tanks fight (although that is usually very frustrating too... pick a target, draw bow, waiting to fire... oops, too late that one is dead, shot cancelled. Pick another target, draw bow, waiting to fire... oops, too late... the times I do manage to get off a shot before the tank makes the kill it often feels like killstealing ) But sneaking around to report on enemy positions and numbers will be the sole domain of the assassin class, and I think that's too bad.

My level 40 ranger has 25 stealth +5 items +1 realm rank for 31 at the moment, but it doesn't really seem very effective - I get uncovered and targeted a lot by enemies. Given what is being said about the see hidden realm ability, I'm certainly not wasting any more points in stealth now, and I'll probably respec most of that into pathfinding, weapon and celtic dual when respeccing is implemented, especially if the emphasis from Mythic really is to "encourage archers to group in RvR". But then we're just paper tanks with a powerful ranged weapon, and that's not quite what I wanted to be when I made my ranger.

 

[Flimgoblin]

ARcher types are still invisible to most of the classes of the game... so stealth ain't entirely useles..

it's not the complete focus of the class though.

The main problem with stealth was that invisibility + range is a ridiculously powerful combination. They should have foreseen that from the beginning but I guess they have to make amends now (and piss off a lot of people on the way).

Anyway to the guy who wrote his death of a scout page I have but one thing to say:

 

[old.The McScrooges]

Trouble grouping?

Don't friggin kill task to level 20.

Get out meet your realm mates, group, chat and get known.

Don't decline a group if you're on a kill task or if you've a bubble before leveling and you want to go train.

Reputation carries a lot of weight in this game, so try and make a good one before your lone wolf attitude leaves you only with soloing.

I hope these nerfs kill of a lot of the scout alts and less dedicated players, because I love my scout, my highland meleeing scout.

 

[old.chesnor]

Haha, another Death of a Scout thread...

<dons flame retardant overcoat>

I'm not saying anything this time

BUT, I have registered www.death-of-a-skald.com and will open bidding at 2 groats and a Flagon of Ale.....start bidding Skalds

 

[Spudgie]

yay can Pffft throw the towel in too

 

[talen_sun]

Well... knowing all this 'negative' energy flowing out about Scouts, I thought, sod it, i'll try one and see for myself....

So, I made level 14 this morning, as here is what i have found so far....

1) I have trouble soloing yellow mobs...
2) um....
3) i think thats it
4) yep, thats all....
5) no, wait i thought of somehting else....
6) nah, wasnt important....in fact i lied so I could put in number 5.

now, I have read up on all this see hidden stuff, and have tried to find it on the web. The nearest thing I found was a realm ability which allows you to see hidden for 60 secs, and is on a 30 minute timer. Can anyone confirm if this is right or wrong.

If wrong, can you please post a link or quote the actual way it works please.

If right, then hey, there are 3 possible characters who could get this ability, and 1 of the character types is on your side, so there are 2 types of characters who can have this for 1 minute in every 30 mins, pretty good odds if you ask me....

The size of the 3 frontiers is pretty big, so, use some intelligance and stealthed or not, you wont get spotted.

I have designed my scout to be a sniper, and, as such, i have max longbow, and max stealth (please dont critisise this, and tell me i have done it wrong, i am doing it the way I want too, not way anyone else tells me)

I knew when I started this character that stealth gets me NOTHING except a smaller bubble to hide in, and that longbow keeps fumbling etc. (For reference I think out of 14 levels i have fumbled twice, maybe 3 times. From what I have read, I think this chance will increase as i gain levels. again, is this correct??)

Now, I have to admit, I LOVE my scout, and, having my stealth max, allows me to run through orange and red mobs, and not get spotted AT ALL!! (ok, maybe I have been lucky too...)

As for RvR, at this moment, I really don't know how it will work out. As I mentioned earlier, if my research is correct, the odds are still on my side, and hopefully, once I get 20, i can test out my little baby scout in the BG's to see just how effective i really am. Now, don't try and put me off by posting, you'll be crap etc... I will find out for myself...

Anyway, there are my views, I am sure this debate will still be floating about in a week or so, and I shall add my RvR BG comments as and when I get there...

Thanks for listening all,

Metallica Black, Scout of the DDS aka....

 

[Belsameth]

straight off the Realm ability page from the www.camelotherald.com

See Hidden
Passive
Automatically detect stealthed characters that don't have the "Detect Hidden" ability: Scouts, Hunters, Rangers, and Minstrels.

personally I think archers should get a skill that either grants them "see hidden"or be able to get a skill that allows them to see infi's

 

[old.Wicoa]

Hmmm

You should be able to drop yellow cons easily, you probably need to buy better arrows and make sure you have a tip top bow. If you were using the trainer arrows they gave you then you'd be lucky to not have been scalped by a blue con.

Maxing stealth is a complete waste for an archer at lower levels. You need to max longbow to get every critical shot until it hits 25 (last critical shot) then decide whether you want to take it further.

If you like running around red and purple cons I suggest that you re-roll as an infiltrator, Nighty or Shadowblade.

Even assasins leave stealth till later, dropping the odd point in it.

But hey its your char, your game play it the way you like but these are the reasons why you are finding yellows and high con blues difficult to tackle.

A good template for a scout is Longbow 50, Sheild 42, Weapon 15 and stealth 39. However mine is different, stealth stays put at 20, longbow to 45/50, shield to 42 and rest in weapon to rip apart what I can.

 

[Gef]

Well I personally dont see myself still playing this game in 4 months time when all the Scout nerf's get patched in. So i'll just enjoy myself till then.

As for the stealth thing, 20 stealth on a lvl20 char - a lvl30 will see you from miles away. 20 stealth on a lvl50 char .. different story. A lot of people say 20 is good enough at 50, I can see how that could be true. I have 26 at 40 and yellows just walk past me without blinking. You only need max stealth when you are a lower level and want to hide from those nasty purple geezers.

Personally i'm going for 30 stealth, 42 shield, 50 longbow and 25 thrust. Yeah I know maxing longbow is supposed to be pointless after 45 but that extra 5hp might save my life one day!

 

[Brannor McThife]

Wicoa.

I think people will start changing their character paths now that BG's are here. Taking a L20-24 Assassin into BG1 without any stealth makes you pretty much easy prey for others, not to mention what would happen at the latter levels.

I aggree that you shouldn't worry about stealth initially, but once you get to 20, if you want to sneak around without crawling like a snail, best get that stealth up.

-G

 

[Gef]

Originally posted by Brannor McThife
I aggree that you shouldn't worry about stealth initially, but once you get to 20, if you want to sneak around without crawling like a snail, best get that stealth up.

I had a race with someone with 40 stealth once and the speed difference isnt that great. (I had 25)

 

[old.Wicoa]

When I say low level I meant <20 and a stealther should put the odd point into it below these levels its just better spent on more important things like Longbow or Critical Strike.

+ if you can bare forcing the auto training you are doing well, couldnt do it myself, if I ever had training points left over I popped them into stealth to slowly build it.

And Gef no worries mate I still havent decided on 45 bow or 50 bow yet. I need to have a tinker with catatombs again.

+ Brannor I read talen_sun's max stealth part, thats why I said what I said about stealth. <shrugs>

As talen said its up to him. Even if you want to max stealth its better to get weapon to the level you want it to be first.

 

[Gef]

Yeah I know what you mean Wilcoa, that extra 5 could get thrust up to 35 odd .. worry about it when I get there I guess

 

[Alrindel]

Just to keep this thread on topic, I'd like to cause Aussie some slow and painful death, preferably with that bow of his stuck up his bottom. I'm tired of being 2-shotted by that sneaky bugger.

 

[talen_sun]

For reference, about having trouble taking down yellows...

Equipment wise, my armour has now turned Blue, so I WILL be having words with my armour crafter soon!!

Bow, is yellow to me, a player crafted oaken longbow with has been enchanted...

Top of the line arra's thanks to funding from Talen (can't remember the name, but the ones that cost 76s)

And a crappy little sword...

Leveling isn't really an issue, thanks to my guild, who are always happy to powerlevel me if needed, not that I have asked yet!! (Maybe I should!!)

But my reasons for trying him is cause, I like that I can take out people from a distance and not have them reach me, (and no, I'm not a fan of playing a caster, so don't suggest that!! ) I wanted to find out what all the fuss was about, and various other things (like our guild was short of scouts, now theres LOADS!!)

But mainly for something different from going toe to toe with Talen.

My main point was that I am enjoying playing the scout, nerfs or no nerfs. I can understand that if you had started the scout right from the beginning and having things taken away from you can be fustrating, annoying etc., but I am enjoying, doing things how I like to do them and not really having much trouble with him at all...

Thanks for your input though guys, the more info the better is my policy, and good hunting to you all...

Metallica aka...

 

[old.Jadow]

I'm hoping that this was a joke, but just in case i'll reply anyways.

Quote:

"personally I think archers should get a skill that either grants them "see hidden"or be able to get a skill that allows them to see infi's"

Erm why? The whole point of an assassin is that they err.. assassinate. I.e. sneak up to an hitherto unaware opponent and stick to magic, poisoned daggers into their kidneys (speaking for infs really here, not sb's).

Scouts womble around the countryside pretty well hidden, but they are -never- going to be able to outhide any assassin class. It would ruin the whole point of the assassin class.

Jadow
Lvl 46+ Infiltrator
The Order of The Knights Templar

 

[SFXman]

See Hidden
Passive
Automatically detect stealthed characters that don't have the "Detect Hidden" ability: Scouts, Hunters, Rangers, and Minstrels.

But what I find EXTREMELY disturbing about this is that it is PASSIVE!?! I mean ffs??!!!! Why could it not have some 5-15 minute timer and certain duration because I for one have noticed on the last BG with my L35 scout that assassins see me already quite often (they do see farther even in this version) and I quite often do get killed by them like all other scouts I have seen in the BG #3... then an infiltrator already had quite damn high RPs and he was level 34 I think, in the BGs for what, two days now? This just shows that the assassins are already good enough.
I suppose some damn assassins in the US kept on whining and whining thus finally got given this god-forsaken PASSIVE see hidden.. IF it was not passive I would be fine with it but now it is just insane tbh.