The Proposed Midgard Frontier

[old.Ramas]

Originally posted by Driwen
or get a group of people who want to solo and get a boat.
.......
actually when mids keeps are under attack most mids come to the keep with a fg at a time, so you can get to the keep to defend it.
...........
than avoid the canyon with tank based group?

On the first point you make an interesting case, and I look forward to seeing soloers trying to find a boat group to travel with and then split up on destination. Either that or big increase in stealth zerg whine threads. Which do you think? As for whether it will take more than 1 person to move a boat - having a minimum of 4 is significant design choice within ToA (and with only 4 the boat moves rather slow), so while it could change, I'd be surprised.

Swimming with ToA potions might be more practical than you might imagine though.

On the second, that's all very nice, but running around the forest will be quicker. Do 1fg of albs making their way to HW go directly through the mountain drake spawns in the centre of the pennines? Of course not.

Finally, on the third point, the fact that gank groups can simply ignore terrain that is unsuitable to them (since they have no particular reason to to visit anything bar the largest open spaces for most efficient rp accumulation) is a problem, not a solution imo.

 

[Hercus]

but will this new expansion replace the curent frontiers, cozz how it looks like it is :x

 

[old.Ramas]

Yes.

 

[Stallion-]

one of the best parts, is that albs will become better by this...
and mids... (but most of em alrdy make balanced grps) I think this frontier will balance the game overall.. the realms are FORCED to make good grps etc to make an effort to move there, as hibs have it today when moving to emain... albs will no longer be able to zerg as they do, neither will mids when they do... albs will start roaming alone & fg fights will be easier to get.

\o/ this is what ive been waiting for ... albs/mids/hibs getting the same distance to teh same frontier.. or am I misstaken?..

 

[Flimgoblin]

Originally posted by old.Ramas
As for whether it will take more than 1 person to move a boat - having a minimum of 4 is significant design choice within ToA (and with only 4 the boat moves rather slow), so while it could change, I'd be surprised.

one of the later 1.66 revisions made it 2 people to move the small boats, 8 for the big boats... and they go at full speed at half-full.

Also swimming with potions is probably faster That said the classic client can't handle underwater (ToA and SI can), so whether there'll be anything _under_ water is probably up for discussion.

 

[Flimgoblin]

Originally posted by old.Ramas

2) The lameness of archers camping the canyon ridges so that tank based gank groups have trouble getting through.

maybe group a caster or a scout

(or a thane - look a reason to be a thane... block the arrows, nuke the archer)

 

[Herbal Remedy]

Originally posted by old.Ramas

2) The lameness of archers camping the canyon ridges so that tank based gank groups have trouble getting through.
.

hum no offence but guard and engage > archers seriously doubt any tank groups gonna get owned by archers

 

[Alpha Male]

Originally posted by jox

A fg rr 7+ maxbuffed snipers with toa-equipment working in perfect cordination...oh, how sweet.

Dont forget there will be no portal keeps....dunno where your gonna park all your BB's, but it wont be easy =)...or safe fpr them.

Im surprised no ones said this yet, but buffbots will be a bit of a problem....one which im sure will be overcome, but the ideal solution isnt an obvious one as of yet.

 

[old.Ramas]

Originally posted by Flimgoblin
maybe group a caster or a scout

(or a thane - look a reason to be a thane... block the arrows, nuke the archer)

Don't get me wrong; I don't think it's a bad way to set up a battle.

I'm just saying, that if there is no realm objective justifying and reinforcing a battle for these areas, people will start whining that they aren't the open spaces that everyone appears to prefer in emain.

The design Mythic have published is one suitable for a game based on taking territory, kill-of-the-hill, or capture-the-flag play.

The problem is that DAoC goals are currently based on none of these things, they are solely based on scoring kills. Keeps don't matter a whit in the current design.

Therefore if nothing changes most of the content this map promises will either be ignored or whined about.

 

[jox]

Originally posted by Alpha Male
Dont forget there will be no portal keeps....dunno where your gonna park all your BB's, but it wont be easy =)...or safe fpr them.

Im surprised no ones said this yet, but buffbots will be a bit of a problem....one which im sure will be overcome, but the ideal solution isnt an obvious one as of yet.

Do not worry Alpha, a harder life for bbs would include economical losses and that will not happen. Why not place your cleric here;

22, 23 - Border Keeps. The border keeps are where people zone into the frontier from their homeland. These keeps are designed to allow access across a wide area, both outside and inside the relic defense wall. This forces relic raiders to blockade two areas to stop reinforcements during a relic raid.

 

[Stormm]

Originally posted by old.Ramas

The problem is that DAoC goals are currently based on none of these things, they are solely based on scoring kills. Keeps don't matter a whit in the current design.

Therefore if nothing changes most of the content this map promises will either be ignored or whined about.

exactly what i was saying .. top of the page

 

[Driwen]

Originally posted by old.Ramas
On the first point you make an interesting case, and I look forward to seeing soloers trying to find a boat group to travel with and then split up on destination. Either that or big increase in stealth zerg whine threads. Which do you think? As for whether it will take more than 1 person to move a boat - having a minimum of 4 is significant design choice within ToA (and with only 4 the boat moves rather slow), so while it could change, I'd be surprised.

as it seems 2 people can row a small boat and 4 for full speed. It seems that duo'ing atleast is still possible. Atm we have no idea how big that ocean is, so we dont know wether rowing with 2 people is worth it.

Swimming with ToA potions might be more practical than you might imagine though.

However the sojourner ML, that makes you swim faster+breathe under water doesnt work outside ToA atm. So I doubt potions do either, so unless they change. You might be forced to either get Mastery of Water or get a boat.

On the second, that's all very nice, but running around the forest will be quicker. Do 1fg of albs making their way to HW go directly through the mountain drake spawns in the centre of the pennines? Of course not.

depends on how it works. I think mythic will make it so that you can find a pathe, but that it will be a small one. However I do know stealthers will prolly take this path, as I always take the path through the drakes as a stealther. However we will have to see how they will implement this or even if they will implement it at all. Its just a sketch and their idea is to make it able for small groups to get through, but not for big zergs. So they will try to program it that way.

Finally, on the third point, the fact that gank groups can simply ignore terrain that is unsuitable to them (since they have no particular reason to to visit anything bar the largest open spaces for most efficient rp accumulation) is a problem, not a solution imo.

than we have an area where there will be no gank groups, so the not fotm groups can RvR there savely. The frontier is now setup to be more tactical and that also means that if you have a certain setup that you will have to avoid certain areas. Besides we have little experience of how our RvR groups look like after ToA, let alone what other changes will be made in this RvR expansion.

Unless there is a big amount of archers up those hills you can probably bodygaurd your sorc than make him mezz them and move on?

I am pretty sure this wont be the only change as mackey seemed to be sure that there wont be long delays between you searching for a fight. But as we only have this picture, we will have to wait and hope that they will have changed the way we RvR.(maybe give people some rp per minute for keeping a tower?)

 

[Kicks]

anyone else notice the 2 dungeon entrances - 2nd ent to the existing frontier dungeon or is one of them new? - Also placed handy relic escape route areas.

 

[old.Ramas]

Originally posted by Alpha Male
Dont forget there will be no portal keeps....dunno where your gonna park all your BB's, but it wont be easy =)...or safe fpr them.

If it really is all directly connected with no zoning/porting, then you can leave the BBs in Lyonesse where you can simultaenously use them to rez the matter cab you are using to accumulate gold and PL a thrust merc while waiting for a soloer to approach your solo stealther if you wanted .

That said, if all the realms are connected without zoning I imagine you'd also have to rotate all the home realms around to fit them together (they can't all have frontiers in the North), and of course the server would proabably grind to a halt. So you probably do get zoning after all.

 

[Flimgoblin]

Originally posted by Alpha Male
Dont forget there will be no portal keeps....dunno where your gonna park all your BB's, but it wont be easy =)...or safe fpr them.

Im surprised no ones said this yet, but buffbots will be a bit of a problem....one which im sure will be overcome, but the ideal solution isnt an obvious one as of yet.

hopefully it'll make the buffbots less likely to be "immortal" which is their main advantage in group battles at the moment...

 

[Flimgoblin]

Originally posted by old.Ramas
The problem is that DAoC goals are currently based on none of these things, they are solely based on scoring kills. Keeps don't matter a whit in the current design.

Therefore if nothing changes most of the content this map promises will either be ignored or whined about.

Got a good point there hope they've got something interesting up their sleeves.

If it really is all directly connected with no zoning/porting, then you can leave the BBs in Lyonesse where you can simultaenously use them to rez the matter cab you are using to accumulate gold and PL a thrust merc while waiting for a soloer to approach your solo stealther if you wanted .

the frontier will be one zone - but it'll be a separate one to the three homelands - that or the servers would die as they'd have to run alb mainland+hib mainland+mid mainland +3 frontiers all off the one machine

 

[Driwen]

Originally posted by old.Ramas
If it really is all directly connected with no zoning/porting, then you can leave the BBs in Lyonesse where you can simultaenously use them to rez the matter cab you are using to accumulate gold and PL a thrust merc while waiting for a soloer to approach your solo stealther if you wanted .

That said, if all the realms are connected without zoning I imagine you'd also have to rotate all the home realms around to fit them together (they can't all have frontiers in the North), and of course the server would proabably grind to a halt. So you probably do get zoning after all.

there is zoning into the frontier zone. The borderkeeps are where you zone into. So now instead of classicdaoc +realmsfrontier being one zone you will have the classicdaoc being a different zone than the frontier. So you can leave your buffbot at relickeep or if the place where you zone in is safe you could leave him there. Also you dont need to bring your bot along with you if you change the realm you are fighting in now.

 

[Flimgoblin]

Originally posted by Driwen
there is zoning into the frontier zone. The borderkeeps are where you zone into. So now instead of classicdaoc +realmsfrontier being one zone you will have the classicdaoc being a different zone than the frontier. So you can leave your buffbot at relickeep or if the place where you zone in is safe you could leave him there. Also you dont need to bring your bot along with you if you change the realm you are fighting in now.

Thinking one thing it might affect though is how likely you are to die and be ressurected far from home (and buffbots)...

i.e. if there's something like a "release to nearest friendly tower" ala Planetside you'll not be getting those buffbot buffs unless you bring the BB with you...

so either you have an (almost) immortal buffbot that loses its advantage if you should die or a buffbot you take with you and leave in the nearest safe-ish spot which is possible to kill.

Either way it makes it a lot fairer.

 

[Driwen]

I cant believe mythic would nerf buffbots .

I dont think you can release to a friendly keep as that makes the way they designed keep C and area 5 unlogical, it would be easier to suicide and then port to the keep. Allthough it might be hard to believe you would need to walk all the way back from your borderkeep to the enemies realm though.
So maybe keep A can be sort of a rezz keep, if you die in midgard as Alb/Hib and your realm has keep A in hands you get to release to that keep?.

 

[sebi]

i don't think people would drop buffbot just because they are not so gr8 nemore coz u can still use them even if only till 1st death when u cba to come back 2 them.

and they will still b very usefull in pve, so the no might not increase but i don't think it will drop that much either.

I think its a good step forward and at mo they doing wat they said they were intending 2 do.

lets w8 and c about balancing RAs etc...

keep up the good work i'll say, whine can always come l8er

 

[Sichama]

Too many cahnges, i hope all will be for the good, between TOA, the Style review and this the game changes drastically which is good as it has become a bit dull.

I see better days for the stealthers, but only for those that enjoy playing their class, it will be much more challenging, and i think that stealthers or stealther groups will start having places they will claim as their own, not to mention that the ruins seem like a very fun place for stealth wars. They removed the problem of milegates as a single choke point but they have added more places for stealthers to camp this seems good too. Especially the first days will be extremely fun as you might find someone practically everywhere while people explore. Stealth groups will become very common though.

Full groups, its very hard to say what will happen, the mindless running up, down, left and right is a stupid way to play the game but people do it because there is no reason to do otherwise, something more is needed to give reason to players to battle in a more tactical way and have different group setup's be effective in different places. The terrain does seem to help though as it seems at this point groups that only understand or are only capable of battles the way they are done today will have limited space to play.

Buffbots i don't care the slightiest what will happen with them, as long as i can or can't do as my opponents can or can't it's fine with me. It seems though that it will be easier for people to keep their BB at their home frontiers making the defenders stronger and invaders will need to group or risk their BB to hunt in enemy teritory, fine with me it should be like that anyway.

The whole deal seems promising the least, i hope Mythic is ready to handle this larger game they are making.

 

[Thorarin]

Originally posted by Flimgoblin
That said the classic client can't handle underwater (ToA and SI can), so whether there'll be anything _under_ water is probably up for discussion.

Mythic plans on phasing out the classic client some time next year, after that happens nothing should stop them from adding things under water?

 

[old.CrazyMuppet]

Originally posted by Sichama
I see better days for the stealthers, but only for those that enjoy playing their class, it will be much more challenging, and i think that stealthers or stealther groups will start having places they will claim as their own, not to mention that the ruins seem like a very fun place for stealth wars. They removed the problem of milegates as a single choke point but they have added more places for stealthers to camp this seems good too. Especially the first days will be extremely fun as you might find someone practically everywhere while people explore. Stealth groups will become very common though.

The whole deal seems promising the least, i hope Mythic is ready to handle this larger game they are making.

100% agree!!

My first thought when seeing those ruins was: stealther's arena