The (Not very) Great Debates

[Wij]

You mean cameron? Although he was only a treasury advisor at the time. A lot more money was lost on that one than on the Brown Bottom incident.

The figures I had were about £3 billion for Black Wednesday and £6 billion for the gold auction.

 

[Calaen]

Cal, you've stated that you would vote LAbour because they got us out of a recession. Well firstly they have not, we are still in one. We are simply in the eye of the storm, and secondly they are the one's that put us into it in the first place.

I don't recall saying that we are out of the recession at all. And I don't think that labour are in control of all of the other countries all over the world suffering during this global not labour recession. The Tories have not even got the stones to tell us where they are going to take the money to balance the books, I'd much rather my employer took the hit over me.

 

[yaruar]

The figures I had were about £3 billion for Black Wednesday and £6 billion for the gold auction.

Last i heard the loss was just over 4 on the gold which when you take into account inflation isn't that bad, + that's an asset swap rather than just handing the money over to george soros like Lamont did.

 

[Raven]

Er, didn't Lamont and just about everyone from that era retire years ago? What on earth have they got to do with anything? Brown is just as bad if not worse than 80s torys. The difference is that he is in power now, not 30 years ago...

It is what is happening now that is important, its a mess. Nobody can seriously use the "blame the previous administration" line...can they?

As for the GDP not being at a historical low, that's not really the point is it? Its still fucked and its still going to fall further under labour.

 

[Jiggs]

Yea, tactical voting is annoying - Lab won by only 300 votes from Con where I am, Lib Dems are nowhere.

May well have to vote Con just to make sure Lab lose enough seats.

 

[Wij]

You do know that in terms of percentage of GDP our deficit is well below 70's and 80's peak levels and in global terms we are well below some of our major competitors such as germany and france.

Although people realy let rational facts get in the way of political one upmanship.

You'll notice I was talking about how borrowing was rising, not the current level of debt. Germany has been bringing its structural defecit under control. France, the UK and Spain however are seeing their debt levels inreasing at a frightening rate and credit agencies are worrying about all three.

Don't let my actual argument get in the way of demolishing a straw man though

 

[Wij]

Last i heard the loss was just over 4 on the gold which when you take into account inflation isn't that bad, + that's an asset swap rather than just handing the money over to george soros like Lamont did.

The LOSS is not an assett swap. The loss to the treasury itself was in effect handed over to gold speculators who couldn't believe their luck. Check out the status of the FoI request around BoE advice over the gold sale.

Anyway, that's 10 years ago. Plenty of Brown fuckups since then. Brown was warned about RBS. It should have been obvious anyway from the way the bank increased in value at an unprecedented rate.

I could go on but I can't believe you're seriously arguing that Brown is competent.

 

[Wij]

Also, according to OECD figures the Tories took power in 79 with a debt rate of 47% of GDP and it peaked again at 46% during the 1990 recession. What is it now ? 68% last year according to Wikipedia.

 

[Embattle]

One sided blind figures are always easy to quote but often wrong.

 

[caLLous]

Really winds me up when Brown starts an answer with "look" or "listen".

 

[Wij]

Really winds me up when Brown starts an answer without saying "I AER TEH TREEMENDUS COKK!!"

fyp

 

[Tom]

The bottom line is, if your income is dependent upon public money, don't go spending too much now.

 

[Garaen]

If only Brown had been able to read some of the economic expert's opinions here at Freddyshouse we wouldn't be in all this mess, the solution just seems so easy! Shame on him tbh.

I won't vote because it'll be the same shit with a different colour whoever gets in to power.

 

[MYstIC G]

I don't recall saying that we are out of the recession at all. And I don't think that labour are in control of all of the other countries all over the world suffering during this global not labour recession. The Tories have not even got the stones to tell us where they are going to take the money to balance the books, I'd much rather my employer took the hit over me.

Which is why you're being a prick. Put your employer out of business and then what happens to your job? Unless of course you believe that employers have a magic pixie dust shield that protects them constantly from all these hits?

Labour has fucked this country for small business, everything is a fucking nightmare to deal with and requires an interface with a bunch of retards who would clearly be out performed by half trained monkeys.

Oh and before you go all *counter argument* the latest one I'm dealing with is them trying to fine us for paying our VAT return moneys over ON TIME?!?

 

[ECA]

I don't recall saying that we are out of the recession at all. And I don't think that labour are in control of all of the other countries all over the world suffering during this global not labour recession. The Tories have not even got the stones to tell us where they are going to take the money to balance the books, I'd much rather my employer took the hit over me.

Why do you think this was something unavoidable?

Many countries avoided recession ( Australia ) , or had very light recessions ( canada ).

Brown deregulated in lockstep with the americans - causing the financial crsis.

If you want to blame any one specific thing for the crash - blame the repeal of Glass-Steagall.

Glass?Steagall Act - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The lib dems have promised to institute financial reform similar to Glass Steagal which is why I'll probably be voting for them.

 

[Damini]

Garaen - of course we're not experts. And yet, if you look back through the past few years threads on here, back to 2007, you'll see the same people time and time again calling the fact that a recession was on the way, that debt was out of control, and that the house of cards was going to fall. A bit concerning when Joe Public can see it coming, and our government either doesn't, or does and refuses to acknowledge it.

Mind you, I don't think it takes an expert to realise that you have to balance the books eventually.

Anyway, this is a good read. If a slightly worrying one.

Don't let the voters know we face bankruptcy - Telegraph

 

[rynnor]

I thought the debates were rather enlightening because it became clear that Lab and Lib Dems are going for a hung Parliament (Lab because they are not going to win outright and lib dem because kingmaker is the most power they can ever hope for).

Both attacked the Cons with scare stories on how they'll hurt the public servants and those on benefits.

The thing that annoys me is how phony all 3 parties are behaving - no-one mentions the elephant in the room (our ever growing enormous defecit) in any serious way and they spend all their time bickering over a few billions that would be eaten up in days...

I think we will end up with the IMF stepping in to lay down the law because all of our Politicians are too gutless to act in the countries interests and make hard decisions.

 

[Roo Stercogburn]

If only Brown had been able to read some of the economic expert's opinions here at Freddyshouse we wouldn't be in all this mess, the solution just seems so easy! Shame on him tbh.

I won't vote because it'll be the same shit with a different colour whoever gets in to power.

Heavy irony aside, for the larger part of my life, this has been my opinion.

This time, its different. The state of affairs is dire enough that I feel its time to join in and excercise my vote.

 

[yaruar]

The thing that annoys me is how phony all 3 parties are behaving - no-one mentions the elephant in the room (our ever growing enormous defecit) in any serious way and they spend all their time bickering over a few billions that would be eaten up in days...

Did you watch the chancellors debate it was discussed there and the main thrust of the arguments were that they needed to start getting some consensus on it and stop playing party politics, which unfortunately won't happen. TBH I've thought for years that some issues should be bigger than political points scoring, but unfortunately politic is about getting one over on the opposition first and doing the right thing second.

 

[Ch3tan]

If only Brown had been able to read some of the economic expert's opinions here at Freddyshouse we wouldn't be in all this mess, the solution just seems so easy! Shame on him tbh.

I won't vote because it'll be the same shit with a different colour whoever gets in to power.

then spoil your ballot.

I think those who don't vote should be put to community service or shipped of to a warzone.

 

[Embattle]

All you do is vote for a marketing group.

 

[Calaen]

Which is why you're being a prick. Put your employer out of business and then what happens to your job? Unless of course you believe that employers have a magic pixie dust shield that protects them constantly from all these hits?

Labour has fucked this country for small business, everything is a fucking nightmare to deal with and requires an interface with a bunch of retards who would clearly be out performed by half trained monkeys.

Oh and before you go all *counter argument* the latest one I'm dealing with is them trying to fine us for paying our VAT return moneys over ON TIME?!?

Well my my own employer will be voting labour, so I guess it's all about circumstances.

 

[xane]

Scrap trident? Are you retarded?

The LibDems are holding onto a fantasy ideology of how to deal with external threats to this country, dismissing Trident as a "cold war weapon" doesn't explain why we don't need a second strike capability, there is still no guarantee that Russia is "safe", and the numbers of nuclear armed nations with hostile intent are increasing.

The most scary policy the LibDems have is they'll "negotiate" with the Taliban and pull out of Afghanistan, they haven't learnt that (a) the Taliban were the main reason terror attacks could happen in this country, and (b) it's pretty much a historical no-brainer that you cannot "negotiate" with fanatical supremacist ideologies bent on world domination.

Unfortunately Clegg was not challenged on these topics, he was critical of Labour's military hardware screw ups and to be fair Brown did explain that sometime the enemy changes tactics and it takes a while to respond, Clegg didn't indicate he'd have the magic answer to that and no-one asked him for it.

It's a pity, the LibDems have the most capable economic policies, Cable is a genius, but their foreign policy scares me.

 

[xane]

Did you watch the chancellors debate it was discussed there

Unfortunately Clegg was happy to push the "£700 in your pocket" tax break (raising threshold to £10K), but wasn't prepared to state how the £17 billion hole was going to get filled, neither was Cable.

 

[Raven]

They don't need to, they can just pull figures out of their arse with the knowledge they will never get in power and have to back them up.

Still, anything that takes votes away from Labour is a good thing.