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Sharp Thing
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- #31
nice sum up
edit; look ppl that actually dont whine about a change like this: http://vnboards.ign.com/message.asp?topic=41949528&page=1
^^
nice sum up
edit; look ppl that actually dont whine about a change like this: http://vnboards.ign.com/message.asp?topic=41949528&page=1
^^
C
censi
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- #32
The real point is,
An enchanter roaming around (on PVP I guess) see's another character.... No debait, no thinking, no weighing up his opposition, no nothing... he knows he can easily kill it no matter what class.... in fact as soon as he has targeted and set pet its game set and match most times (unless its a stealther who stealthed b4 pet got lock)
Not many other classes out there can say that....
assasins?? (get battered by pretty much all half decent tanks)
skalds?? (yer there good but far from uber and again skalds struggle versus pure tanks and other classes)
Archers?? (no comment)
Non pet mages?? (dead meat)
CC classes?? (maybe tougher to kill or catch but they aint gonna do too much to you, its more a case of if you can kill them b4 they mezz and run)
Mincers (piss weak now)
etc etc etc (no point going through other classes)
this is pretty common knowledge, hence the 1000's of little luri chanters roaming around on PVP, and hence the KOS code most guilds have....
I tested a chanter on pvp and its so easy to kill things... I have the same lvl infiltraitor and all I can say is its about 10 times harder to kill things, and a lot of times you get owned....
imo archer classes should have the chanter speed thing... this would make me a happy little luri, and the more I think about the more I like it! /wakes from dream
FACT: Enchanters are about the only solo class on PVP that are viable (without buffbotts) ((though some might argue a case for Skalds))
An enchanter roaming around (on PVP I guess) see's another character.... No debait, no thinking, no weighing up his opposition, no nothing... he knows he can easily kill it no matter what class.... in fact as soon as he has targeted and set pet its game set and match most times (unless its a stealther who stealthed b4 pet got lock)
Not many other classes out there can say that....
assasins?? (get battered by pretty much all half decent tanks)
skalds?? (yer there good but far from uber and again skalds struggle versus pure tanks and other classes)
Archers?? (no comment)
Non pet mages?? (dead meat)
CC classes?? (maybe tougher to kill or catch but they aint gonna do too much to you, its more a case of if you can kill them b4 they mezz and run)
Mincers (piss weak now)
etc etc etc (no point going through other classes)
this is pretty common knowledge, hence the 1000's of little luri chanters roaming around on PVP, and hence the KOS code most guilds have....
I tested a chanter on pvp and its so easy to kill things... I have the same lvl infiltraitor and all I can say is its about 10 times harder to kill things, and a lot of times you get owned....
imo archer classes should have the chanter speed thing... this would make me a happy little luri, and the more I think about the more I like it! /wakes from dream
FACT: Enchanters are about the only solo class on PVP that are viable (without buffbotts) ((though some might argue a case for Skalds))
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inuyasha
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- #33
Sigh....
That you complain about the LOS thing is completly understandable....since its the only thing a chanter can do close to a keep, its what we do, so no wonder you notice that alot.
However....remove the snare? Move what did you say? stun to spec line??? and HEAT debuff in the ENCHANTMENT line????
Not really sure what you think you are talking about mate =)
The enchanters specs are the most limited of all mages in the whole game, we pay dearly for that pet, so to remove slow from it would be rather redicelious, since it would render it just as useless as the other pets are in rvr.
Our specs is:
Light: DD, attack speed decrease, area attack speed decrease.
The debuffs is resisted alot even on equal con MOBS, so its more or less useless (and i have +10 light)
Mana: Pbaoe, heat resist debuff (pbaoe is energy), pet damage shield. (it demands consentarion, meaning you cannot blast, move or change target while you are using it)
Enchantment: 3 sets of pet buffs, only reason people choose this spec even in a small degree is for stable pet heals, or for powerleveling. (powerleveling damage add is about to be nerfed)
The rest is the same as all other mages in hib.....
The idea some of you got that debuff+main line spec = light spec is a TOTAL myth, and if you think about it, you should know.
The stability and mana usage of the sun spec blast is in the light focus/specs, and the others are in mana. Once you have debuffed a target, you "can" hit for up to 4/5 of the light blast when you have the best heat debuff, BUT you then, unless you during the fight change to a +light focus staff, use more then 3 times the mana a light user does each blast. Also, unless you have totaly insane +s to light, your blasts varies from like 50-700 on low resist targets where light is about 500-800 on the same ones undebuffed. Alas, the light spec mage hit for about 700-1000 on this target IF the target have the heat resist on it, and on this point heavily outdamage the mana blast.
As i hope you can see now, no specced enchanter is: "insane", you either get a ok blast and pbaoe, or you get a insane blast period. The pet is what we pay for when we do not get any form of mess/root/slow/lull/debuffs/buffs/cc at all ourself.
Im not really sure why a theurgist for one, wants to nerf either of the specs a enchanter have, when he at level 50 can get all the best spec pets, pbt, area mess, area root, single target root, good blasts (not insane like light). You have runsong and damage add in your main line as well, why in the ages should we not get a runsong??
Tbh the "remove snare from pet" thingy is from meleers who walk alone, and if you think any meleer in hib would survive meeting a theurg any more then any of yours survive to meet a chanter you are wrong (yes, i have played a theurg as well)
And....only minstrels have a chaanse against a chanter? rofl =)
In alb, mages have a fair chanse (most of all theurgs, again), i get slaughtered en-mass from your infils and ranger wannabees, minstrels totaly own us, sorcs can beat us... If you start to mix in any class, then all steatlers in the game can own us, and skalds/healers/clerics and thanes rarely have any problem beating me either =)
Enchanters do off course own a single (or a dozen single) melee only targetes, but mages is supposed to do that. Just like stealthesr are supposed to take the mages, and the meleers are supposed to own the stealthers again =)
Leave my class alone, and while you leave the door, by all means bring the LOS bug with you, won't miss it =)....i think its a quite more serious bug that my pet can go straight through walls and such, but at least it don't get stuck in them =)
Point: 43,5 ench
Inuyasha: 42 hero
Time: 35 eldrich
Roflmario: 23 ment
Goldragon: 27 theurg
Instantkiller: 22 minstrel
Goldragon: 27 enchanter
Member of Red Dragons of Wrath! =)
That you complain about the LOS thing is completly understandable....since its the only thing a chanter can do close to a keep, its what we do, so no wonder you notice that alot.
However....remove the snare? Move what did you say? stun to spec line??? and HEAT debuff in the ENCHANTMENT line????
Not really sure what you think you are talking about mate =)
The enchanters specs are the most limited of all mages in the whole game, we pay dearly for that pet, so to remove slow from it would be rather redicelious, since it would render it just as useless as the other pets are in rvr.
Our specs is:
Light: DD, attack speed decrease, area attack speed decrease.
The debuffs is resisted alot even on equal con MOBS, so its more or less useless (and i have +10 light)
Mana: Pbaoe, heat resist debuff (pbaoe is energy), pet damage shield. (it demands consentarion, meaning you cannot blast, move or change target while you are using it)
Enchantment: 3 sets of pet buffs, only reason people choose this spec even in a small degree is for stable pet heals, or for powerleveling. (powerleveling damage add is about to be nerfed)
The rest is the same as all other mages in hib.....
The idea some of you got that debuff+main line spec = light spec is a TOTAL myth, and if you think about it, you should know.
The stability and mana usage of the sun spec blast is in the light focus/specs, and the others are in mana. Once you have debuffed a target, you "can" hit for up to 4/5 of the light blast when you have the best heat debuff, BUT you then, unless you during the fight change to a +light focus staff, use more then 3 times the mana a light user does each blast. Also, unless you have totaly insane +s to light, your blasts varies from like 50-700 on low resist targets where light is about 500-800 on the same ones undebuffed. Alas, the light spec mage hit for about 700-1000 on this target IF the target have the heat resist on it, and on this point heavily outdamage the mana blast.
As i hope you can see now, no specced enchanter is: "insane", you either get a ok blast and pbaoe, or you get a insane blast period. The pet is what we pay for when we do not get any form of mess/root/slow/lull/debuffs/buffs/cc at all ourself.
Im not really sure why a theurgist for one, wants to nerf either of the specs a enchanter have, when he at level 50 can get all the best spec pets, pbt, area mess, area root, single target root, good blasts (not insane like light). You have runsong and damage add in your main line as well, why in the ages should we not get a runsong??
Tbh the "remove snare from pet" thingy is from meleers who walk alone, and if you think any meleer in hib would survive meeting a theurg any more then any of yours survive to meet a chanter you are wrong (yes, i have played a theurg as well)
And....only minstrels have a chaanse against a chanter? rofl =)
In alb, mages have a fair chanse (most of all theurgs, again), i get slaughtered en-mass from your infils and ranger wannabees, minstrels totaly own us, sorcs can beat us... If you start to mix in any class, then all steatlers in the game can own us, and skalds/healers/clerics and thanes rarely have any problem beating me either =)
Enchanters do off course own a single (or a dozen single) melee only targetes, but mages is supposed to do that. Just like stealthesr are supposed to take the mages, and the meleers are supposed to own the stealthers again =)
Leave my class alone, and while you leave the door, by all means bring the LOS bug with you, won't miss it =)....i think its a quite more serious bug that my pet can go straight through walls and such, but at least it don't get stuck in them =)
Point: 43,5 ench
Inuyasha: 42 hero
Time: 35 eldrich
Roflmario: 23 ment
Goldragon: 27 theurg
Instantkiller: 22 minstrel
Goldragon: 27 enchanter
Member of Red Dragons of Wrath! =)
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Qte Eth
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- #34
i think if ench only had pbaoe -no stun ,dd ,debuff ,pet or speed there will be still some guys who would like him nerfed
i think everyone will be happy if ench ran around with staff and tryed to gank some zerkers
i think everyone will be happy if ench ran around with staff and tryed to gank some zerkers
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Sharp Thing
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- #35
Originally posted by Qte Eth
i think if ench only had pbaoe -no stun ,dd ,debuff ,pet or speed there will be still some guys who would like him nerfed
i think everyone will be happy if ench ran around with staff and tryed to gank some zerkers
no, the tr00l zerkers would whine bc they got hit for 20dmg !!!!!!1
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old.Charonel
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- #36
perhaps even more if they go vendo
i mean, they'd HAVE too...can't outmeelee such an overpowered sonofabiatch as a chanter...you seen the delay on those staffs they wield?! FFS!!!11!!1!
i mean, they'd HAVE too...can't outmeelee such an overpowered sonofabiatch as a chanter...you seen the delay on those staffs they wield?! FFS!!!11!!1!
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subski
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- #37
baseline stun, quick cast, baseline speed, snarenuking pet.
these combined on one class is a HUGE tool!
LoS will just be first fix unless mythic prooves themselves retards. chain nuking snare on a fooking pet is just lame.
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Sharp Thing
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- #38
look, the zerkers started!!!11
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Danya
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- #39
Mana chanters consistently outdamage light chanters in RvR. Hitting mobs for 1000 with light spec is all very well, but it doesn't work like that vs players. Most people have high heat resist, if you can debuff that by 50% that's incredibly powerful. Power cost is one thing, but with serenity/mcl chanters should be able to nuke enough to cope. Focus staffs aren't an issue really - use a mana/light bi-focus staff. As for the variance on the nuke, it's not as big as you make out. A chanter can spec 48 mana for pbae and still get 24+11+RR light giving them quite small variance, given they'll be capping half the time from the debuff anyway, they tend to hit for 5xx every nuke.
As for the snare pet, I think it's a bit much given it's an ability "for free." They should just change it to a non-snaring nuke.
As for the snare pet, I think it's a bit much given it's an ability "for free." They should just change it to a non-snaring nuke.
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Qte Eth
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- #40
lol coming from zerker
think sub remembered some not fun 2vs1 fight.
think sub remembered some not fun 2vs1 fight.
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subski
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- #41
Originally posted by Qte Eth
lol coming from zerker
think sub remembered some not fun 2vs1 fight.
yeah and the nightmare escalated @ camlann with lvl 1X ppl setting pets on u and running away. :x
compared to chanters, zerkers should have unbreakable speed5 and 50% higher chance to evade/parry during frenzy, and frenzy with 30 sec re-use timer etc :]
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Dr. Mangler
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- #42
I totally agree with Subski.. lower timer on hamster to 30 sec. and inc chance of evade to 50% when in hamster mode..
that would be really fun but, that will never happen..
that would be really fun but, that will never happen..
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StormriderX
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- #43
Ok but give bm's la base mechanics instead of crappy cd and lower tw to 15sec timer and make flurry 15 sec too with 50% evade ^^ oh and spd 5 and mezz wouldnt go amiss either
Edit : nerf theurgys and their spamming of chain stun pets please whilst if you are removing snare nukes. Also why whine about 9s stun that doesnt last that long with determination when your own cc is so much better?
Edit : nerf theurgys and their spamming of chain stun pets please whilst if you are removing snare nukes. Also why whine about 9s stun that doesnt last that long with determination when your own cc is so much better?
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Danya
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- #44
Base mechanics of DW/CD give better damage than LA, LA has better styles which means that overall it's the better line though.Originally posted by stormriderx
Ok but give bm's la base mechanics instead of crappy cd and lower tw to 15sec timer and make flurry 15 sec too with 50% evade ^^ oh and spd 5 and mezz wouldnt go amiss either
Edit : nerf theurgys and their spamming of chain stun pets please whilst if you are removing snare nukes. Also why whine about 9s stun that doesnt last that long with determination when your own cc is so much better?
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StormriderX
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- #45
Don't forget that zerks wielding hammers in right had have access to two different damage types per swing. Also whereas hamster form is available at lv5 and every 7 mins bms need to wait till higher level and every 30 mins for a glorifed damage add ^^
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old.Nol
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- #46
back to the topic...
I would rather they invested the same energy to sort out "buff bots" then to keep nerfing classes.
I would rather they invested the same energy to sort out "buff bots" then to keep nerfing classes.
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tut-ankh-amon
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- #47
nerf nisse he pwnz
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Spamb0t
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- #48
that los fix is no bigger deal for a chanter i would think...
and move heat debuff to some crap line noone use? (for rvr)
runies got cold debuff in RC line.. and can then use darkness nukes.. debuff for own DDs.. same thing
and move heat debuff to some crap line noone use? (for rvr)
runies got cold debuff in RC line.. and can then use darkness nukes.. debuff for own DDs.. same thing
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Spamb0t
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- #49
well.. its less lame then CHAINSTUNNING AIR THEU pets..
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sorusi
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- #50
That damn pet can solo a L50 player itself ffs nerf that snare give it heat debuff 5% and take away the chanters heat debuff from mana into enchantsments
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old.Charonel
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- #51
someone got owned????
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old.Charonel
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- #52
sorry, couldnt resist
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Tiptap
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- #53
BAD CHAR!
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elerand
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- #54
It's not so much a nerf as correcting a fault with pets in general, not exclusive to enchanters either.
Now capping evade and removing IP from asassins is a nerf I like
Now capping evade and removing IP from asassins is a nerf I like
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old.LandShark
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- #55
Casters still gonna die to infs :>
Tanks still gonna die to buffed infs and win vs unbuffed infs, just like before :>
IPless assassin vs target that has IP and capped melee resists from SC = bye bye assassin
Tanks still gonna die to buffed infs and win vs unbuffed infs, just like before :>
IPless assassin vs target that has IP and capped melee resists from SC = bye bye assassin
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old.Charonel
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- #56
well i dont seriously think the assassin nerf is gonna bother assasins who rolled their char based on what it was allways supposed to be (ie before we got ra's etc..., ie a mage killer etc...) since it'll just be putting them back into that part of the game, and merely removing the ability to gank pretty much any class going.
of course buffbots will help still, but the removal of IP will mean that trying to knock out tanks will be a bad idea, which currently, it's entirely plausible for a lot of shadowblades/infils with buffbots because the of the IP, and high buff effect caps which allow them to benefit from buffbots so much more than most classes because of how assassins deal damage.
caster's for example, work pretty well as regards whether they can currently do their role, but if we suddenly got patch buffed with the ability to af buff and dam absorb buff to the point where we're effectively wearing plate armour, i wouldt be complaining because they took it out next patch, merely because it's not supposed to be what we have.
assassins were really never supposed to have IP and that kind of stuff, they got it though thanks to mythic being a bit stupid, now it's getting taken away and their going back to their origional jobs, hardly a nerf in my eyes.
of course buffbots will help still, but the removal of IP will mean that trying to knock out tanks will be a bad idea, which currently, it's entirely plausible for a lot of shadowblades/infils with buffbots because the of the IP, and high buff effect caps which allow them to benefit from buffbots so much more than most classes because of how assassins deal damage.
caster's for example, work pretty well as regards whether they can currently do their role, but if we suddenly got patch buffed with the ability to af buff and dam absorb buff to the point where we're effectively wearing plate armour, i wouldt be complaining because they took it out next patch, merely because it's not supposed to be what we have.
assassins were really never supposed to have IP and that kind of stuff, they got it though thanks to mythic being a bit stupid, now it's getting taken away and their going back to their origional jobs, hardly a nerf in my eyes.