The Necromancer - a suggestion.

Discussion in 'Albion' started by Roalith, Jan 17, 2004.

  1. Roalith

    Roalith Guest

    Thought I'd post it here for comments and advice first, before I chuck it through the Mythic Camelot Herald feedback form.

    Dear Sanya,

    Whilst understandably you are not the be all and end all of class balance and alteration issues, I felt it pertinent to bring these suggestions to you via the Herald feedback form rather than leaving them to rot on the ‘usual’ forums.

    These suggestions relate in particular to the Necromancer class in the Albion realm. As you are no doubt aware, there are so many issues and bugs related to this class that something needs to be done. Matt Firor has been quoted in an interview as stating that the Necromancer is a hopeless case in terms of fixes and alterations. What I will endeavour to do here is suggest a fairly fundamental change to the class, and relate bugs and experiences to these changes from my own level 50 Necromancer, named Lithi on the European/UK server Prydwen.

    First of all:
    The Necromancer pet:-
    This is the fundamental feature of this class – in effect, the Necromancer is the pet – all spells are cast through the pet, and in 99% of cases if the pet dies the Necromancer does too. Whilst this adds a uniqueness to the class, unfortunately due to pet coding issues there are countless bugs and problems with the class:

    Pet pathing and control:–
    I am certain I do not need to elaborate on this to any great deal. In certain zones, pet pathing is ‘wonky’ at best, with the pet often following the necromancer shade in a zig-zag fashion, or for example in Avalon City often going off in a completely different direction and subsequently suffering a forced release of control.

    Line of sight:–
    With the shared line of sight between Necromancer and pet, often spells fail to cast when both pet and shade seem to have perfect line of sight – a prime example of this is the Catacombs of Cardova in Cornwall.

    Facilitate painworking:–
    An issue that seems to be related to spells ‘proccing’ through the pet, and the pet unable to queue more than two spells at once. This spell will fail to fire if more than two spells are queued, and likewise takes a lot of care and attention to the pet to get to fire at all.

    Deathsight Mastery line of spells:–
    The primary line of Necromancer specialisation, due mainly to the simplicity and ease of use of the spell types, this line does however suffer issues regardless – mainly related to the casting of the ‘instant’ melee-use lifetap spell (Scream of the Dead), which only actually casts once the pet swings in melee (Even when the pet is set to ‘passive’ he makes a melee swing when this spell is cast). With my own Necromancer, my ‘shade’ is easily able to cast three Scream of the Dead spells between the swings of the pet’s two handed sword – further exacerbated by player dexterity buffs/bonuses.

    Painworking Mastery line of spells:–
    A relatively unpopular specialisation, this line again suffers the problem of the instant cast DOT spells, and the Facilitate painworking spell. Suffice to say, that given the issues with these spells many players do not feel this line is worth taking.

    Death Servant Mastery line of spells:–
    The more popular secondary line for Necromancers, again this line suffers the issues of the Facilitate Painworking (Used in conjunction with the PBAOE damage) and instant damage spells.

    Pet when buffed by an enhance specced cleric:–
    Again, another issue I am certain you are aware of. A Necromancer pet when buffed with player constitution bonus spells such as the cleric Benediction of Fortitude spell, instead of gaining in constitution and therefore hit points instead gains in armour absorption. This, combined with a 50 enhance spec ‘buffbot’ character with several levels of Mastery of the Arcane, and the Necromancer Deathsight-spec ‘Intimacy with Death’ 9pt melee absorption spell often results in an effective absorption of over 80%. As you can no doubt imagine, this is open to abuse. Likewise – when a pet is in receipt of the level 50 Enhance dexterity buffs, a Necromancer properly timing it can cast 3 spells with Facilitate Painworking whilst his pet is being hit in melee.

    Pet ‘con’ RE: Player vs Player combat:-
    As mentioned earlier, the Necromancer in many senses ‘is’ the pet. Forgive me for being flippant, but making a player in essence a level 44 blue-con ‘mob’ when fighting other players is frankly ridiculous. A Necromancer in Realm vs Realm combat absolutely has to have capped magical resists to stand half a chance vs enemy spellcasters – and even then the level 44 pet is effectively the same as a level 50 player without magical resists.

    Necromancers are unable to use power potions, buff potions, endurance potions, heal potions, alchemy procs, reactive procs, charges, etc etc ad nauseum whilst in shade form. And when out of shade form, they are effectively incapacitated and using these charges/potions would be of little to no use in any case, as they can perform no spells apart from the pet summon.

    Armour degradation:-
    Whilst in Europe we are currently on patch 1.62, moving to 1.65 shortly and have yet to see the change to armour degradation (No degradation whatsoever vs all armour pieces suffering a degradation check when the pet is hit), many Necromancers are awaiting this change with trepidation. I myself am worried about this change – having spent a significant amount of time and effort gathering the necessary cash and items to create a stat-capping armour set for my Necromancer, I am loathe to see it all start falling apart within a short span of weeks.

    Suggested change:
    Eradicate the Necromancer pet/shade setup. Instead, when the Necromancer casts his ‘summon pet’ spell, have the Necromancer morph into the pet model – in coding terms, this would no doubt be similar to the way Beserkers morph into the bear form, or Heros morph in to the Stag form. In one fell swoop, this eradicates many bugs and issues of the Necromancer class:–

    Pet pathing would no longer be an issue.
    Line of sight becomes the normal player set up.
    Facilitate painworking could be removed and replaced by the standard cloth caster ‘quickcast’ ability.
    Player buffs affect the Necromancer as a normal player.
    Instant cast spells would be instant, rather than based upon a pet’s melee combat speed.
    The Necromancer would be able to use alchemy procs, charges and potions as per a normal player character.
    Armour degradation also affects the Necromancer as a normal player.

    Understandably, with this change many of the Necromancer spells would need rebalancing – the Deathsight specification Shriek of the Dead becoming a timer based melee-range instant, the ‘pet buffs’ being removed in favour of standard cloth caster buff spells (AF Shield, Bladeturn, and self-absorption spells in particular – this last perhaps in conjunction with the Deathsight specification melee absorption spell, effectively giving the class studded-level armour).
    Likewise, changes would need to be made to the Necromancer ability to use weapons – perhaps enabling them to equip swords, shields, and two-handed weapons but not specialise in them.

    As an example, a Deathsight Necromancer would cast his level 45 ‘Summon Abomination’ spell, and polymorph into the abomination model currently used for the pet. Equipping his focus staff, he then attacks monsters or players with his Soul Vacuum spell until they reach melee range. When he enters combat, he changes to his two handed sword and proceeds to unstyled melee on them, casting his 5-second timer based instant lifetap spell until they, or he, are dead.
    Or perhaps the Death Servant spec’d Necromancer relying on other players to ‘tank’ for him so he can cast his pbaoe damage spell instead of relying on a buffbot for 80% absorption and 3 spellcasts in melee.

    I can understand Mythic being reluctant to make such a fundamental change to the class this late after it’s inception, but I and I am certain many other players feel that the Necromancer class is fundamentally flawed as it stands. Please, I beg you, approach this change with an open mind. I would like to be able to play my Necromancer as a proper character rather than a buffbotted powerlevelling tool.

    Roalith – Level 50 Armsman
    Lithi – Level 50 Necromancer
    Prydwen – Albion, GOA, Europe
    Eyes & Ears team member (GOA voluntary player ‘spy’)
  2. old.linnet

    old.linnet Guest

    Interesting. It sounds as though you are asking for them to become more of a hybrid, than a true caster ... Will be interesting to see what they say.

    (tbh, they should let my sorcerer change shape to something with platemail <nods> And stil be able to cast spells, like your necro recommendation!!)
  3. cHodAX

    cHodAX Guest

    Oi! Leave my insane absorbtion alone damnit! :p
  4. Roalith

    Roalith Guest

    Read the recommendation properly please Lin - I am saying in the post that they should be changed to a proper caster with the 10% self absorb buff, perhaps stacking with the necro's current 9% asborb buff. As the pet currently stands, it might look like he's wearing plate but he only has around 5% normally :p
  5. bigchief

    bigchief Guest

  6. we might have hundreds of good idea's/complaints. I doubt they will ever reach mythic and even if they did, i doubt any class will get a major overhaul. Perhaps some minor balancing, but the big balancing has already passed
  7. Fluffygirl

    Fluffygirl Guest

    i know you mean well, but me at least don't want the changes you suggest......i know necros have many many flaws, and I know they seem like a hopeless issue to fix.....but the reason I made a necro in the first place (or my horribly bugged animist too for that matter) is because they are something different than the normal classes, something unique that you can't find with the others, making the changes you suggest will take away that uniqueness and make it into a normal boring class :(
  8. -Nxs-

    -Nxs- Guest

    Im sure youll get the bog standard reply from mythic - a better course of action would be to PM the necro TL on vnboards or post in the necro forums, ive seen loads of things there in the past that have made it into the class.
  9. Huntingtons

    Huntingtons Guest

    It might be true some of it... but remeber the way the ligetap with Bonedacers work :eek:

    And, how should theheal work? a instant HOT? thats overpowered tbh... dmg shield instant... which means melee...+ heal+betterfocus shield and all the way, that would become more overpowered tbh... else good ideas... but shouldn't become that i'd say.
  10. Gorse

    Gorse Guest

    I think it sounds interesting - and surely it doesnt work prober.

    Afflatus 50 necro
  11. switch control of abomination with the shade and ALL PROBLEMS + RA'S FIXED!!!

    a controllable non bugged class!!
  12. Yussef

    Yussef Guest

    What they've done on a DAOC Emulator is:

    Someone created a "taming" script, allowing you to tame mobs. When you mount one to ride it, this happens:

    The player becomes the model of the mob, the mob becomes the model of the player. The mob mounts on the player, allowing the player to be in control. They could do something like that for the shade/pets, but using /stick instead.
  13. ilum

    ilum Guest

    Good post Roalith, and although many may not have faith in that Mythic will listen, I think it's worth a try atleast :)
  14. bigchief

    bigchief Guest

    since the class was released ppl have talked about doing this. Every few weeks a discussion on VN with the TL goes on about this, usually split down the middle for ppl that want it and ppl that dont. Personally I dont, but its irrelevant as they wont even fix simple bugs nevermind alter the very basis of the class.
  15. thats how they are ruining their game

    mythic employee 1: "guys, we have unbalanced classes, a cheap RA system, and a shitload of bugged abilities, what should we do?"


    mythic employee 2: "kekeke xDD"

    ive had it, ive been waiting for almost a year now for the necro crap to get fixed, next mmorpg plz! :puke:
  16. Huntingtons

    Huntingtons Guest

  17. Fafnir

    Fafnir Guest

    They will finally realize what a piece of crap bugs the necro class is and wipe it from the game. :D
  18. dwali

    dwali Guest

    it might be crap but the best PL char there is when having a bb!

    And Roalith that sounded interesting...would be more Fun in keep defence/take if they would make that changes...but then they have to change Animist to jump in to a mushroom to :p or bd´s in to a skelett :p
  19. also the bad thing about mythics 'fixing' is, for example, they fixed the LoS of the necro but with the side effect that they completely gimped it, as long as there isnt a bug which makes the class 'good' its ok with them :puke:
  20. agraucred

    agraucred Guest

    those kind of changes will never happen, although i am in favour of them. at the moment necros feel useless in relic/keep raid because of the line of site issue, and noone wants them in a rvr group. and then because the pet is an npc it totally screws up a lot of things, RA's bein the most obvious. imo we are 1 year into having the class and still feels totally incomplete and like its still in beta. they fucked up big time with this whole "unique" thing... and besides, where the hell did the "turn into a shade" idea come from when necromancers in any other RPG/game have been assosiated with raising undead armies (including morganna, Albions NPC baddie in this very game!!!). necros and bone dancers should have been the other way round imo... if bd's were not so far to the other end of the balancing scale anyway

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