Crap The Joker (Scouse and Toht "discussion", best stay away unless you're a bit insane :p)

[old.Tohtori]

Right. Let's do this then.

No, i don't think the joker is mad simply due to someone being mad implying that they don't have control over it. A psychopath fits very well, and crazy as well(he even self proclaims it), but mad i believe isn't apt.

I'd prefer to stay away from pure textbook definitions and discuss the underlying tone of the terms and as such i do think i'm right in this instance. Or if you use a definition from ze interwebs, atleast consider the full meaning of the term and not just part of it.

Also do try and keep it civil.

 

[DaGaffer]

Since your opening gambit is that a psychopath doesn't fall under the definition of "mad", this thread is immediately full of fail, because all you're going to do is argue about what "mad" means and keeping changing the goalposts. I'm on to you. You mad fucker.

 

[caLLous]

Changing the goalposts? Tohtori?! How dare you fling such accusations around!!

 

[Raven]

A psychopath is by definition mad. /thread

 

[old.Tohtori]

It's not though. All psychopaths are not mad, nor are they psychotic.

 

[Scouse]

Since your opening gambit is that a psychopath doesn't fall under the definition of "mad", this thread is immediately full of fail

This.

 

[old.Tohtori]

Well "discussed", bravo *slow clap* Well that proves that then, can't blame me for the bullsh*t.

If anyone would actually want to discuss the topic, feel free.

 

[DaGaffer]

A psychopath is by definition mad. /thread

Aaaand, he's got you. Mainly because he's right, but only because there isn't actually a single definition of what a psychopath actually is, (or what "mad" means for that matter) so you can't say "by definition". And on that note, I'm out.

 

[Chilly]

/thread

 

[Scouse]

I'd prefer to stay away from pure textbook definitions - because they will show me to be full of said fail

If anyone would actually want to discuss the topic

They did. You're wrong. End of discussion.

 

[old.Tohtori]

but only because there isn't actually a single definition of what a psychopath actually is, so you can't say "by definition".

Oh the irony, people saying a psychopath is by definition mad and then claiming that because i can't say by definition(which i didn't) and there isn't a one single definition of a psychopath, that i'm wrong.

Well done!

Oh well, atleast proves that Scouse saying "i actually want to discuss it" is more of the total bullcrap he spews.

 

[old.Tohtori]

Not to mention the irony of dagaffers original post, where he claims id' take it to a definition discussion, and then every post that follows taking it right there, when i wanted to discuss the joker and the kind of a psychopath he is.

But hey, i'm wrong because everyone else says the things that are wrong in the statements that i didn't make.

Funny for those who see it, which i'm betting there are.

 

[Scouse]

Oh the irony, people saying a psychopath is by definition mad and then claiming that because i can't say by definition(which i didn't) and there isn't a one single definition of a psychopath, that i'm wrong.

There's no single definition of what a psychopath is. Psychopathy can be attributed to multiple diagnoses.

However all psychopaths are, by definition, mad.

Oh well, atleast proves that Scouse saying "i actually want to discuss it" is more of the total bullcrap he spews.

We have discussed it.

All discussions don't have to go to multiple pages. You. Are. Incorrect. Toht.

 

[old.Tohtori]

So do show the definition of a psychopath that says that all psychopaths are mad.

Any will do, anything at all outside your personal opinion.

I'll wait.

 

[DaGaffer]

Oh the irony, people saying a psychopath is by definition mad and then claiming that because i can't say by definition(which i didn't) and there isn't a one single definition of a psychopath, that i'm wrong.

Well done!

Oh well, atleast proves that Scouse saying "i actually want to discuss it" is more of the total bullcrap he spews.

I didn't say anything about you, because you didn't say "by definition", Raven did. I was agreeing with you (on a technicality) you paranoid fucking moron.

 

[gohan]

aren't like 1 in 100 people phychopathic? Don't the majority of them get decent jobs in high level companies despite not having the ability, their 'natural charm' an manipulative nature generally gets them far dispite lack of talent. Not all Phycopaths go on killing sprees, also being a phychopath doesn't make you 'mad'. Infact even the batshit crazy ones that go all stabby are in full control of their minds, they just see the world differently, have no emotional attachment to things and no real conscience. These are all emotional bounderies not mental. So they are not mad.....



interesting article on it:

http://www.enterpriseinsgroup.com/o...eet-employees-is-a-psychopath-say-researchers

 

[old.Tohtori]

I didn't say anything about you, because you didn't say "by definition", Raven did. I was agreeing with you (on a technicality) you paranoid fucking moron.

Oh right, sorry, that was my bad. I thought the "he's got you" meant Raven got me, read that wrong.

Scouse areed with that though, so he's agreeing i'm right?

 

[soze]

I you think that mad is someone who talks to plants ect then Psychopath does not equals Mad. Plenty of serial killers lived fake normal lives where people were convinced they were "ordinary" decent citizens. So I think if that is how you define mad then there is a difference.

But in bat man Joker was a mad and a box of badgers though he was not normal and did not try to be.

But as I am not a shrink this is just how i view it and it would hard to argue that the fact they are killing people in the first place does not equal madness.

 

[gohan]

Infact reading the attributes I'm probably partailly phycopathic........ I don't really care that much about people as a whole. I care about what happens to friends etc but general suffering and empathy for strangers just doesn't come natrually to me, but I can pretend I care, that's easy. Also you know that question that always comes up at the pub, "Would you kill someone for a million if you could get away with it?" my answer is always yes, aslong as I don't know them...... I'd never kill for fun, but I'd have no scruples killing to protect myself or others, and it's hard to say for sure unless I was put in the situation but I think I'd be ok killing a stranger for personal gain.......

Now I realise everyone is gonna have a bitch and cry over that last sentance but it's what the human race has been doing for thousands of years, it only stoped in mass culture in the last few hundered years, although even then it still happens regually....

 

[old.Tohtori]

But in bat man Joker was a mad and a box of badgers though he was not normal and did not try to be.

Not at all normal, no, but i'd say that while a psychopath and crazy, calling him mad would imply that he does it because he has to(due to thinking that it's the normal thing to do), but he does it knowingly and because it's fun.

Some even theorized that he's not insane, but rather super-sane, hypersensitive to his surroundings and all that.

"Would you kill someone for a million if you could get away with it?" my answer is always yes, aslong as I don't know them...... I'd never kill for fun, but I'd have no scruples killing to protect myself or others, and it's hard to say for sure unless I was put in the situation but I think I'd be ok killing a stranger for personal gain.......

Then you get to the oh so fun; "with a million, i could extend the life of my family and friends with better healthcare and other such.", which would mean that you killed the person for the greater good

 

[Scouse]

I'll wait.

No need to wait Toht. It was posted in the other thread.

A psychopath has a mental disorder. The definition of mad is to have a mental disorder.

Therefore a psychopath is one of the many types of people who are mad.


Just because you don't like logical reasoning I'll give the dictionary definitions, again.

mad
adj.
Suffering from a disorder of the mind

psychopath
n.
A person with an antisocial personality disorder

....what's your disorder? The one that means you can't accept the obvious when confronted with evidence?

Oh, yes, compulsive believer in ones own rightness - with an inability to admit wrongness...

 

[Scouse]

Some even theorized that he's not insane, but rather super-sane, hypersensitive to his surroundings and all that.

Some people talk even more shit than you.

 

[gohan]

Then 99.9% of the planet is 'mad' everyone has some level of OCD and most people are somewhere on the autism scale, albeit usually minorly and not in a way that effects their everyday life, but if you're going to umbrella mad into such a broad term then yes, nearly everyone is mad.

And if everyone is mad, then really no-one is mad......

 

[Scouse]

if you're going to umbrella mad into such a broad term

Not me. I'm not qualified to do so. But Toht'll love your reasoning because it will allow him to talk about something other than the topic being discussed.


Do you disagree that psychopaths are mad, gohan? It's what the thread is about after all...

 

[old.Tohtori]

Some people talk even more shit than you.

Like grant morrison? Cool.

Not me. I'm not qualified to do so. But Toht'll love your reasoning because it will allow him to talk about something other than the topic being discussed.

Which is interesting because you think this topic is about definition.

It's been established that you can't say all psychopaths are mad, just by the lack of clear definition of a psychopath. The issue is, is the joker mad.

 

[Scouse]

Like grant morrison? Cool.

Grant Morrison, MBE (born 31 January 1960) is a Scottish comic book writer, playwright and occultist

Yes. Even Grant Morrison, who's written all sorts of great stuff, dabbles in bullshit.

Occultist = shit-talker, prone to total idiocy.

From wiki - some of their list of occult practioners:

• paranormal magic, "black" or "white"
• witchcraft
• sorcery
• wizardry
• astrology
• alchemy
• practical mysticism
• West African Vodun, Haitian Vodou, or Louisiana Voodoo
• divination and fortune-telling

....

 

[gohan]

If you read my post above RE: wallstreet phychopaths. Then yes I do disagree. But then it comes down to the definition of phychopath..... Do I think The Joker is mad? Absofuckingloutly........ HE HAS GREEN HAIR.........

But he knows he's mad and doesn't give a shit.... and if you are aware that you're mad are you still mad??? Generally madness and selfawareness don't go hand it hand.

 

[old.Tohtori]

Yes. Even Grant Morrison, who's written all sorts of great stuff, dabbles in bullshit.

Occultist = shit-talker

Wow...what a great rebuttal. Especially when talking about a comic supervillain.

But, i digress, do you actually have any argument on why you think the joker is mad? (now that the whole psychopath/mad discussion is done with)

 

[Scouse]

It's been established that you can't say all psychopaths are mad, just by the lack of clear definition of a psychopath.

No. It's not "been established". Your logic fail has been refuted.

There are multiple definitions of what constitues psychopathic behaviours - all of which fall under the definition of the term "mad".

 

[old.Tohtori]

No. It's not "been established". Your logic fail has been refuted.

There are multiple definitions of what constitues psychopathic behaviours - all of which fall under the definition of the term "mad".

Well looking at the thread, it seems quite contrary.

So you still claim that ALL psychopaths are mad?