The Iraq Dossier in full

[dysfunction]

THis was meant to be posted earlier, i havnt read the last few thread here, and i dont have time to atm.

I dont have time to read your post either...is a summary possible?

 

[GDW]

Prime where did u cut and paste this from

 

[prime1]

har har, the cat-a-pult thread, which i swear i never looked at, yet somehow managed to post there by accident! i honestly have no idea how i posted there.

 

[stu]

Havent been around for a couple of days, and tbh I'm inclined to just let the thread die. I have to say though prime, whilst you have your opinions on Iraq, you seem to know absolutely FUCK ALL about Israel/Palestine, and you really shouldn't draw those comparisons because it totally destroys your argument. I can't quite get my head round how Israel was *forced* into its current situation by its neighbours being hostile when Israel DIDNT EVEN EXIST before it invaded and occupied other people's territory, but there you go.

/end

 

[prime1]

hmm ok one last point, if Israel didnt exist, how did it invade and occupy itself?

The territory was under british duristiction, and was given, with agreement, to the Jews (i beleive with the backing of the international community) (actually after they mounted a guerilla war agaisnt the british oddly enough), there was no invasion and the Arab states, maybe begrudgingly, agreed to it.

And if their neighbours hadnt started massing their armies and openly threatening war, Israel would have had no justification in invading its neighbours as a pre-emptive strike. bah this is Isreal and has nothing to do with Iraq anywaym, uve totally missed my point about looking at the end picture.

 

[Shocko]

Originally posted by prime1
The territory was under british duristiction, and was given, with agreement, to the Jews (i beleive with the backing of the international community) (actually after they mounted a guerilla war agaisnt the british oddly enough), there was no invasion and the Arab states, maybe begrudgingly, agreed to it.

The British never gave the land to anybody. When they pulled out of former Palestine, in 1948(?), they didso due to terrorism carried out by Jewish extremists. One man's guerilla war is another man's terrorism, however if you're calling the bombing of the King David hotel a legitimate act of war, then i don't see why you condem the Palestineans.

The Jewish terrorism was wrong - They weren't being oppressed, they had equal rights in the country, and they'd been promised a Jewish state. Despite this, they waged a campaign of terrorism against the British forces there, till they were forced to abandon Palestine. When the British made the decision to cut its mandate short early, a UN resolution, to create two states in Palestine, one arab and one Jewish, was created. The motion failed though, however 6months later it was reintroduced, and due to heavy US lobbying(on the poorer countrys), the resolution was passed. Britain abstained in the vote, so STFU about Britain creating a state.

At this point, the Jews declared the state of Isreal, and fighting broke out between Jews and arabs. There were arabs in the Jewish areas, and Jews in the arab areas, which resulted in all hell breaking loose. Since the Jews were allready organised into fighting groups(previously for the purposes of terrorism), and were well armed, they would have 0wned the arabs in the country. The armies of Jordan, Egypt and Syria(i think anyway), all came in to help the arabs. Call this an invasion if you want, however the arab armies were hardly armies in teh true sense of the word. Despite this, the Jewish forces still ended up victorious, owning large portions of the planned arab state by the time a cease-fire was negotiated. Had the arab armies not gone into the country, it is likely the Jews would have occupied the whole place at this point.

The rest is history, however the war which resulted in the Jews obtaining the whole of former Palestine was started by them, the Isrealis. People say that the arabs started the aggression, so the Isrealis had the right to take the land, but clearly, the land today considered to be Palestine(west bank and gaza strip), was seized in a war of Isreali aggression, and the first Isreali/Arab war was started by neither side. The arab states never themselves acknowledged the UN resolution that created Isreal/newPalestine, however i think Egypt and Jordan have made their own peace settlements with Isreal. Since Isreal refuses to acknowledge the arab state in teh country, i don't see how anyone can blame the arabs for the illegal Jewish occupation.

 

[prime1]

I never said britain gave them anything, i said the area WAS under british influence at the time. It was an internationally accepted agreement, regardless of who lobbied for it. I dont excuse the Israeli's their actions, but had the Arab "armies" not threatened Isreal they would not have been able to take the land in the first place, it was a war of aggression? maybe, but designed to defend itself against imminent attack.