The Iraq Dossier in full

[~YuckFou~]

All your base are belong to us


For those that are interested.
I've only had time to read the executive summary. There seems to be some strong evidence against Saddam. Time for a small but well trained SAS unit to erm "prevent" the problem from getting any worse methinks.

 

[Will]

The evidence is...lacking in sources, and a large amount of it is conjecture (I've never used that word before). I know they have said they aren't giving raw data to protect sources, but what is the point of the evidence then?

 

[Wij]

The point is everyone wanted evidence but obviously they can't name spies and the like. No win situation.

 

[Furr]

Hmm reading that it seems cruel to let the Iraqi people live under such a terrible regime. To be honest all of you who say that we should just negotiate have to admit that in these types of situations negotions really are just a way to put of the inevitable.

 

[doh_boy]

The bit that mad me think, ok saddams further over the "Mad-Looney Mofo" line than I thought was the line "around 40 members of saddam family murdered"

:/

 

[GDW]

Ohhh just nuke the lot of them and get it all over with!

 

[Testin da Cable]

glad that's a joke grandad

 

[old.ignus]

I think we should just leave them all the hell alone and hope the problem sorts itself out.
Gosh I hope that was the right thing to say I mean that does seem to the be the general attitude around here and I get flamed for having my own opinion.

 

[Furr]

*gets out napalm*

 

[Sir Frizz]

In my opinion, all this Iraqi/Taliban stuff is wearing mightily thin. I have grown increasingly tired of every little thing that happens over there. I don't really care if Saddam took a shit this morning, but that's the kind of coverage he and others get. They must be loving it, being more famous than coca cola. :/

 

[GDW]

Nuke em I say duke nuke em!

 

[old.ignus]

whatever happened to governent assassins?

I think the SAS would be our only choice if a special forces team stormed Saddams home, as Delta force are always too busy assisting holywood in the latest action blockbuster.

 

[Furr]

Why doesn't someone just assasinate him, it cant be that impossible!

 

[stu]

What a complete load of shit.

I have it under good authority that George Bush is an alien. Obviously, I can't name my sources, so you'll just have to trust me on this one. He must be stopped!

 

[Will]

Originally posted by stu
What a complete load of shit.

I have it under good authority that George Bush is an alien. Obviously, I can't name my sources, so you'll just have to trust me on this one. He must be stopped!

Well done stu, sarcastic, accurate, and summed up what I think of that dossier.

 

[stu]

Originally posted by furofknight
Why doesn't someone just assasinate him, it cant be that impossible!

You'd be surprised. After all, you'd think it wouldn't be that hard to find two elderly infirm men when you've got a global network of surveillance satellites, but Osama and Mullah Omar are still out there giving the US the finger.

 

[Testin da Cable]

it's not hard to find "people" but it is rather difficult to find a specific person so I hear. one can't just go smartbombing every glowing spot on the old IR heh.

 

[FatBusinessman]

Originally posted by stu
Osama and Mullah Omar are still out there giving the US the finger.

Not necessarily. After all, if you were a member of al-Qaeda, would you shout about it if your figurehead had been killed? I doubt it. Who's to say that Osama isn't crushed under a pile of rubble somewhere, and no-one's told us?

 

[Wij]

Originally posted by stu
What a complete load of shit.

I have it under good authority that George Bush is an alien. Obviously, I can't name my sources, so you'll just have to trust me on this one. He must be stopped!

Fair point but it certainly doesn't prove Saddam DOESN'T have lots of nasty weapons. What WOULD convince you Stu ?

 

[Gumbo]

I think Osama's dead anyway, otherwise I'm sure there would have been a bunch of videos on al-jazeera with him going :- Na na nana na, can't catch me, the US smells of wee etc etc.

 

[whipped]

Him doing the YMCA dance would certainly ensure him of internet fame.

 

[Shocko]

Yes, that would certainly earn him my respect

 

[stu]

Originally posted by Wij
Fair point but it certainly doesn't prove Saddam DOESN'T have lots of nasty weapons. What WOULD convince you Stu ?

True. It also doesn't prove that Saddam isn't George Bush in a rubber mask. So if it doesn't prove that he isn't, then he must be!

See how it's totally illogical to conclude something simply because there's a lack of evidence to prove the opposite?

That's why we have this premise of "innocent until proven guilty" which is the fundamental foundation of natural law since anything approaching a civilisation existed.

What would it take to convince me? Some proof would be nice. Failing that, a strong suggestion.

 

[Wij]

the point ->.




<- Stu




I was saying that you are not offering any argument that he doesn't have weapons except that the report issued is not 100% certain which is no argument at all. Therefore I ask what makes you so certain he hasn't ? I'm not suggesting that this makes it right to attack at all, just questioning why you feel so certain about it.

 

[stu]

Originally posted by Wij
I was saying that you are not offering any argument that he doesn't have weapons except that the report issued is not 100% certain which is no argument at all. Therefore I ask what makes you so certain he hasn't ? I'm not suggesting that this makes it right to attack at all, just questioning why you feel so certain about it.

That's the whole point - I'm not certain he's not. More importantly, I'm not certain he *is* - no one is. Hence, get some proof? Don't just mock up a pointless document that says absolutely nothing either way.

That's the way law works - you don't have to prove that you're innocent, someone else has to prove that you're guilty.

 

[stu]

An excellent article on disinformation and the "blunderbus" approach to 'why we should attack Iraq'

klik me

 

[Will]

From stu's link

Europe knows that, and (except for Tony Blair's Britain, which in fear and trembling, and with a queasy stomach, prepares for war as the price of its "special relationship" with the U.S.) is solidly against a second Gulf War.

How very true.

 

[Wij]

The whole tone of your previous posts on the subject has suggested you think that this is something made up by George Bush to improve his chances in the mid-terms in some X-Files style conspiracy.

I don't see how anyone can really believe that Saddam is NOT trying to stockpile weapons and develop new ones. He has so much previous on this. I completely fail to beieve that Saddam has turned over a new leaf and decided to comply with UN resolutions from now on. I also completely fail to believe that Bush and Blair are making this up to gain popularity (which they probably knew they wouldn't get), I'm not that much of a paranoid fantacsist. People are just using it to obscure the real issues which is whether we should do anything about it and why now ? I'm not pro-war and neither am I particularly anti-war. I'm afraid my crystal ball fails me on predicting the outcome. Whether I would support a war or not tho has little to do with how many weapons I think Saddam has and how reliable the sources are. I'm certain he has some weapons and that he is in violation of UN resolutions. It's a non-issue.

Legal burdens of proof are irrelevant. This is not a court.

Is the reason you are anti-war really because you think Saddam has no weapons and has given up trying to build them ?

 

[Will]

Well, there is the possibility that Saddam does have a store of bio/chemical agents. But then again, there are a lot of countries that do, and the US doesn't invade them.

The US (and the UK to some extent) are very keen to attack now, without waiting for the UN, thus stepping outside international law in the same way as Saddam did when he invaded Kuwait.

Iraq has not been linked to state-sponsored terrorism against the US for a long time (1993 according to stu's article), so that is hardly justification for invading. A large section of the dossier was dedicated to stating that Iraq still had large numbers of trained scientests who could resume manufacturing of chem/bio weapons. I really don't think that is a good reason either, since they cannot leave the country. Having a degree is not a reason to have your country invaded.

It all seems a bit personal, coupled with the slowing down of the Afghanistan situation, and needing something to keep away from domestic issues. And I really don't want to see the more lunatic fringes of the Islamic fundamentalist movement giving more justification to attack both the US, and the Western world in general.

 

[Wij]

At least those are reasons that make sense Thx Itchy !