The Icon of the 20th Century

[Gwadien]

Thing on the beeb right now

BBC Two - Icons: The Greatest Person of the 20th Century

Who would you vote for?

Or none of the above?

It's a bit disappointing that they didn't have Stalin under the leadership category, he was a great guy.

 

[Scouse]

Me




No.

ME

 

[Gwadien]

Me




No.

ME

Your mum for pushing your massive head out.

actual good mum joke m'kay?

 

[Scouse]

It's a bit of a brit-centred list tbh.

I don't really understand what an icon is tbh. Never really looked up to anybody enough to think they deserved special adulation. Especially not famous people - like Bowie - because they had a cushie life so got all the adulation they needed.

Mandela was a mix of great and shit. Turing was cool but I dislike accolades that are associated with war.

Ali hit people and got paid handsomely for it.

Meh to the others. I was (pleasantly) surprised to see Picasso on there.

It's such an arbitrary list.

 

[Gwadien]

There were more foreign options but these were the finalists of the categories.

I would have said Martin Luther King tbh. Turing won though.

 

[Bodhi]

Thatcher.

 

[Job]

Icon yes..but seriously, Nelson Mandela.

Is it just accepted that we ignore hes a convicted terrorist who fully admitted he organised a murderous bombing campaign..killing innocent women and children, then refused to denounce violence and therefore rotted in jail.
By that reasoning Bin Laden should have been up there.

Glad Turing won though.

 

[Scouse]

@Job in 'doesn't like black hero' shocker.

 

[Gwadien]

Icon yes..but seriously, Nelson Mandela.

Is it just accepted that we ignore hes a convicted terrorist who fully admitted he organised a murderous bombing campaign..killing innocent women and children, then refused to denounce violence and therefore rotted in jail.
By that reasoning Bin Laden should have been up there.

Glad Turing won though.

When he was released from prison he absolutely 100% denounced violence.

You're just an idiot.

 

[Job]

He was offered his freedom if he denounced violence..he chose not to and stay in jail for 30 years.
Somehow that makes you great.

 

[dysfunction]

He was offered his freedom if he denounced violence..he chose not to and stay in jail for 30 years.
Somehow that makes you great.

He was in jail for 27 years you fucknut

 

[Scouse]

When he was released from prison he absolutely 100% denounced violence.

Easy to denounce violence when it's already been used to achieve your aims.

 

[Gwadien]

Easy to denounce violence when it's already been used to achieve your aims.

Well yeah.

Anyway, if you're in your own country and some white dudes come in and tell you that you're shit not even 2nd class citizens, but 3rd class, I think that gives you the right to engage in some violence.

 

[Scouse]

Against innocents?

 

[Gwadien]

Against innocents?

In this case, yes.

 

[fettoken]

Hitler be like..

 

[Gwadien]

Hitler be like..

More like Mandela was fighting against fascism (OK fascism because they're kinda brits right?)

How many black South Africans were arrested because they were black, or killed because of it by the Government?

 

[Scouse]

In this case, yes.

Killing innocents makes you a cunt in my book.

But fighting against slavery...

 

[Gwadien]

Killing innocents makes you a cunt in my book.

But fighting against slavery...

OK to clarify, you're OK with violence against slavery, but you're not OK with neo-slavery where the Government moves their fascism into some acceptable guide lines.

I mean, you're siding with Thatcher over this.

 

[DaGaffer]

Well yeah.

Anyway, if you're in your own country and some white dudes come in and tell you that you're shit not even 2nd class citizens, but 3rd class, I think that gives you the right to engage in some violence.

While I agree with the tenor of your argument, the facts are wrong. "White dudes" didn't "come in" to Nelson Mandela's people's "own country". Matabele, Xhona and Zulus are no more indigenous to South Africa than white Afrikaaners are. In fact the Dutch probably arrived in the borders of modern South Africa first.

 

[Gwadien]

While I agree with the tenor of your argument, the facts are wrong. "White dudes" didn't "come in" to Nelson Mandela's people's "own country". Matabele, Xhona and Zulus are no more indigenous to South Africa than white Afrikaaners are. In fact the Dutch probably arrived in the borders of modern South Africa first.

Okay, for a country to still behave like a 18th century colony.

I'm fairly sure that South Africa wasn't completely abandoned prior to the Afrikaners though, it's just a matter of a lack of history records.

The Empty Land Myth

might be propaganda, I dunno.

 

[Job]

As Ive posted many times before, SA had a big razor wire fence around it to stop black people getting in, because as racist as it was it was still far safer and richer than anywhere around it for black Africans.
It was either your own bus or no bus.

 

[DaGaffer]

Okay, for a country to still behave like a 18th century colony.

I'm fairly sure that South Africa wasn't completely abandoned prior to the Afrikaners though, it's just a matter of a lack of history records.

The Empty Land Myth

might be propaganda, I dunno.

No, I didn’t say it was abandoned. There were people there when the Dutch arrived (the Khoi-San peoples) but they weren’t Mandela’s ancestors, who moving south into the area at the same time the Dutch were moving north and east from The Cape. Mandela’s lot (and most modern black South Africans) are part of the great waves of Bantu peoples who started pushing out of East Africa nearly 1000 years ago and they were no better than the Afrikaaners when it came the Stone Age peoples they rolled over.

The Khoisan are the first South Africans, but in their case it wasn’t racism that got them, it was European diseases, but if the Europeans hadn’t landed they would have been doomed by Bantu diseases instead.