The History Boffins Thread

[Dukat]

Those who forget history are condemned to repeat it!

I've read about history since I can remember. I was brought up on the old WW2 films and others like Zulu. I've always been interested in history, particularly conflicts.

As for two major areas of interest for me, it would probably be the Edo period of feudal japan(1600's to late 1800's) is the main one for me atm, closely followed by the second world war - something I've been interested in since before I can remember.

 

[Levin]

And also to realise how "insignificant" matters can turn into world changing events.

Kinda gives a new meaning to "anyone can make a difference".

If a single attack from japan to china changed how the world is today, the actions you take, can easily effect how your town/city is. If not indeed more.

That is food for thought, indeed. I was having a discussion about this yesterday with the gf after finally getting to the finish of last season of Dr. Who.

 

[Case]

Germany declared war on the US after the Japanese attacked pearl harbour under the misguided notion that Japan would then declare war on Russia and open a second front against the Russians. At the time there was little support for a war in europe in the US, so basically Hitler screwed up big time, if he had not declared war on the US it's likely that Us entry into the european theatre would have been delayed if it happened at all opening a whole new can of worms.

My favourite period is the Roman era circa 750bc to around 450ad not really interested in the byzantine era. Cornelius Scipio (Africanus) is one of the greatest generals who ever lived but is rarely talked about, the only person anyone ever hears of is Julius Caesar. He did pretty well to be fair but wothout Scipio the Roman republic would likely have become a province of the Carthaginian empire way back in the second punic wars.

Secondly the Rise and fall of the British empire 1700's to 1945 which I find very interesting and thought provoking. The break away of the US, how trade and slavery drove the empire and economy of the world forward ect ect.

 

[Elkie]

Thread going well keep it up , interesting to see so many wide varietys of peoples different interests of different times in history.

 

[old.Tohtori]

Germany declared war on the US after the Japanese attacked pearl harbour under the misguided notion that Japan would then declare war on Russia and open a second front against the Russians. At the time there was little support for a war in europe in the US, so basically Hitler screwed up big time, if he had not declared war on the US it's likely that Us entry into the european theatre would have been delayed if it happened at all opening a whole new can of worms..

Actually, the US declared war on japan(after Pearl Harbor) before Germany then, as allied forces do, declared war on the US.

 

[Case]

I think you'll find thats exactly what I just said ^^

 

[old.Tohtori]

I think you'll find thats exactly what I just said ^^

Not really, you made it sound like a mistake, when infact its a normal war procedure.

If germany hadn't declared war on japan, they would've had to face them later on.

Also the part about the "misguided notion" is false, since sooner or later, russia and japan would've had to fight in any case.

 

[Levin]

Not really, you made it sound like a mistake, when infact its a normal war procedure.

If germany hadn't declared war on japan, they would've had to face them later on.

Also the part about the "misguided notion" is false, since sooner or later, russia and japan would've had to fight in any case.

Eh??? Germany and Japan were allies.. what are you on about?

 

[Jeremiah]

Why? its part of our history, i will concede the church has done a lot to help develop civilization (as much as it has done to hinder us) but it has also been a corrupt institution, from loan sharking and charging people money for them to pray for them once they are dead to outright theft of land and property. Middle age Christianity bears a lot of similarity with todays islam

I understand what you are saying, but thats "The Church" not the Bible =) The Church, being a run by humans, was and is, and shall ever be (*cough*) imperfect.

What I took issue with is the thought that the Bible (or in particular the NT) has been changed in some way since it was initially written, regardless of if the accounts in it are true or not. Theres much evidence to suggest it is unchanged, and little to suggest it has been edited. I'd agree it would be difficult to prove the events written about were true, but its just as difficult with any historical document set within the early AD period and before =)

 

[Case]

Since I don`t want to drag the thread off topic (something i`m sure your more than happy to do) I'll ignore you from now on ^^

Read this website which gives full information:

Hitler Declares War on America

Once your finished there check out:

eBay - The UK's Online Marketplace

and Search for "a clue"

 

[old.Tohtori]

Since I don`t want to drag the thread off topic (something i`m sure your more than happy to do) I'll ignore you from now on ^^
*snip*

Search for "a clue"

Yeah, a few things:

I was wrong at the reason the US joined the war, slightly, as i misread some information. I can admit i was wrong in that.(EDIT: Actually wasn't, just a typo on previous post)

Second, this discussion is not in the slightest off-topic, it's a history discussion, and this as far as i know, is history.

Saying "i'll just ignore you" and telling someone to "get a clue", when they are simply in the wrong and can stand to be corrected, is a rather juvenile way to go.

Maybe you feel you need to start with the insults, and go ahead, i know i don't have to.

To Levin, technically they weren't, but i've always seen it that they were. This again is a bit, "non factual" and "opinion" stated, and as such don't think it should be too much discussed.(EDIT: Just noticed my mistake on my post, i meant if germany hadn't declared war on US, they would've had to face the japanese )

 

[Cemeterygates]

i find the time of the norman invasion of england to be rather interesting.....and also being of french desendance its quite possible some of my ancestors (sp?) where part of the invading force which is interesting/cool

 

[Levin]

Yes, i figured there must have been some jumbling of the words there Toh. It made it quite confusing trying to read what you actually meant.

Anyway, to clear things up.

What Case was saying was that after Japan and the US declared war on eachother, Germany stood on Japan's side hoping to get some support back. Germany declared war on the US too, hoping that in turn Japan would declare war on Russia, with whom Germany was already at war with. When Japan didn't open up a second front against Russia, that was a miscalculation on Hitler's part.

It's possible that Germany would have declared war on the US even without such hopes, but.. I'm sure Germany would have loved to wait with officially warring with the US for as long as possible if there was nothing to gain from it.

At least that's how I understood it.

 

[old.Tohtori]

Yes, i figured there must have been some jumbling of the words there Toh. It made it quite confusing trying to read what you actually meant.

Anyway, to clear things up.

What Case was saying was that after Japan and the US declared war on eachother, Germany stood on Japan's side hoping to get some support back. Germany declared war on the US too, hoping that in turn Japan would declare war on Russia, with whom Germany was already at war with. When Japan didn't open up a second front against Russia, that was a miscalculation on Hitler's part.

It's possible that Germany would have declared war on the US even without such hopes, but.. I'm sure Germany would have loved to wait with officially warring with the US for as long as possible if there was nothing to gain from it.

At least that's how I understood it.

Aye, one little word jumble makes a discussion rather off-track

What you said is quite right, but to keep inline of my opinion, i would have to dispute that the reason for declaring war on the US wasn't as much a hope of japan fighting the russians, but more of a "we don't want them attacking germany" type of solution.

Ofcourse that's only something Ze Man would know.

I think Hitler would've preferred Japan NOT attack the US, as the US were, how to put it, not a threat.

 

[Litmus]

History was my fav subject at school, and just about the only one i paid any attension too. My fav subjects are prolly WW1(ive been to ypres in blegium where the battle of Passchendaele took place).

Maybe my second subject would be either the medevil times and 20th century Russia, would love to go visit Moscow or something.

 

[Huntingtons]

And also to realise how "insignificant" matters can turn into world changing events.

Kinda gives a new meaning to "anyone can make a difference".

If a single attack from japan to china changed how the world is today, the actions you take, can easily effect how your town/city is. If not indeed more.

well, if you look at it like that then what caused the japanese attack on china . and what cause that action and so forth (backwards!). you pick a starting point and work out from that. someone took the american intervention in the war as their starting point for loosing ze war.