The French say No

[Gear]

The process of the pan-european ratification of the European Constitution has received quite a big blow from one of the founding members of what is now the European Union.

Major issues that have come to surface are things like "Europe being un-democratic", "Europe being out of touch"; at the same time with such a volatile environmennt, the citizens don't seem to find the security they are looking for in a international institution. Lack of communication from the part of the European Union in many respects, the complexity of the document itself as well as the fact that it appeared to be quite "Anglo-Saxon" have been said to contribute to the "No" vote.

This most likely will lead to another No vote in the Netherlands, where the polls already saw a majority leaning towards it.

J. Straw has already stated that the ratification process in the UK will be by referendum and not by the parliament.

European result? Remains to be seen...

 

[Marczje]

Not sure myself yet, but will probably be a 'no-vote'.

 

[old.Tohtori]

Where's the "i don't honestly care" button?

 

[Hawkwind]

People should care more about this. The result in France was as much a kick in the balls for the government/Chirac as it was about the 'United States of Europe'. France currently has 10% unemployment and a immagration policy that just is not working. Which is why the likes of JM Penn are doing so well. Also they were afraid of loosing the best retirement/social benefits scheme in Europe.

Personally I'm glad, The Netherlands will be the next 'No' vote and by a much bigger margain. I would hope the UK does the same if the vote ever happens.

The only people who benefit from the EU are the poorer countries. Britain and Germany pay the most into it and seem to get the least out of it. Now UK ministers are meeting with the EU because they are trying to take away the 2 billion GBP we receive as a rebate each year. Secured by Thatcher btw. This is when we pay twice as much as France and have the same population.

Fuck the lot of em! Britain is seen as the odd one out in the EU. Even when we pay more into it than most. We are being taken for a ride and people need to wake up. The money wasted by these cretins is beyond belief.

Free trade accross EU members fine. I can even see the benefits of single currency. But, a Federal Europe governing our taxation. All that will happen is all the money will get spent on the poor countries. I would prefer we sort our own country out first. Enough social economic problems to spend our money on.

 

[Darksword]

wont happen tbh. theres many reasons but heres just one

What there trying to do requires everyone to agree, thats a majority, needed in every country in the EU, to agree. thats not going to happen. especially as there is more history involved wars etc.

The reason it worked in the US is because the founding fathers, however many of them there were, 10? <shrug> were all similarily minded, and met in private, and set the rules by which the people lived etc. whats happening here is on a grander scale, there is no fear of invasion adn so there is no need for a bond to be created, unlike in the US where they had to appear as a strong united nation in order to prevent Britain taking over again.

Also all this is being done infront of the world, with cameras etc, and to see what effect this has, just look at parliament since cameras etc were introduced, it just becomes petty insults etc.

just wont work.

 

[Raven]

this means blair will sneak it in the back door, nothing more.

 

[Job]

No-one cared before, so why all of a sudden is it so important now?

If the no-vote is such a show stopper and will bring the whole frekin thing to a halt as the media doomsayers are saying then why wasn't it given a much higher pan-European profile.

One paper in the UK actually said this is now the end for Tony Blair FFS.

What a joke, no-one gives a shit, Europe will carry on red-taping it's way through life for a long time to come.

If they said yes and helped the constitution finally come in power, we would all ignore it anyway.
A unified Europe MIGHT be more efficient, but everyone's scared of immigration and ever increasing directives and more pointless human rights which completely miss the people they are meant to help.

QUESTION; What's the highest mountain in Europe? (not joke question)

 

[old.Tohtori]

QUESTION; What's the highest mountain in Europe? (not joke question)

....don't know why you asked though...

Elbrus, caucasian mountains, 18513.

 

[Hawkwind]

this means blair will sneak it in the back door, nothing more.

Will make him look a bigger liar than he already is, if that's possible. He promised a vote on it, would be political suicide to go back on that. Anyway, the pressure would be off. With France and Netherlands (almost certain no) 'No Votes' in already UK's would make very little difference.

 

[Outlander]

No vote ftw!

 

[Job]

....don't know why you asked though...

Elbrus, caucasian mountains, 18513.

Damn, I knew you'd get it right.

Amazing how many web sites still say Mt Blanc.

 

[Mojo]

Amagad

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4595423.stm

:eek2:

 

[Ssera]

people here voted "No" because:

1.) They had no clue as to what this constitution meant.

2.) They don't like the current government and want to punish them.

Both those reasons are prime examples as to why decisions like this should be left to politicians who can actually understand why things are important and why or why not you'd want to change things like this. The French people are really really stupid. They're lazy and they don't want to work one extra bit more than what they're supposed to. Even if that means that in 10 years the social security system crumbles into nothing as does the enourmously generous wellfare state (I earn 1800 euros a month after tax, my girlfriend 1600 and even so we can still apply for housing benefits and get them!! We don't because we don't need it but many people do...). They hate the goverment because it's trying to reform laws to avoid this, and this is how they punish it.

Bunch of idiots uke:

 

[Outlander]

people here voted "No" because:

1.) They had no clue as to what this constitution meant.

2.) They don't like the current government and want to punish them.

Bunch of idiots uke:

heh....lol....And I thought it might have been for other reasons....such

 

[Ctuchik]

what i cant understand is WHY KEEP VOTING?? theres NOTHING to vote for anymore!

ALL the countried need to vote YES for it to be a reality! with france voting NO theres NOTHING left to vote for. its totally and utterly pointless to even concider it.

 

[Ctuchik]

Amagad

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4595423.stm

:eek2:

they needed someone to blame. thats all theres to it.

 

[Raven]

people here voted "No" because:

1.) They had no clue as to what this constitution meant.

2.) They don't like the current government and want to punish them.

Both those reasons are prime examples as to why decisions like this should be left to politicians who can actually understand why things are important and why or why not you'd want to change things like this. The French people are really really stupid. They're lazy and they don't want to work one extra bit more than what they're supposed to. Even if that means that in 10 years the social security system crumbles into nothing as does the enourmously generous wellfare state (I earn 1800 euros a month after tax, my girlfriend 1600 and even so we can still apply for housing benefits and get them!! We don't because we don't need it but many people do...). They hate the goverment because it's trying to reform laws to avoid this, and this is how they punish it.

Bunch of idiots uke:

Or maybe because they actually like being able to vote for their own government and not having laws dictated to them from people who never have and never will be voted into office. While the Europe thing could be good it isnt because its not democratic, no matter how its presented. May sound a little stupid but what the hell did we fight two world wars over for (yes i know there were a load more things but the aim was pretty much the same, a united europe under a dictator) Its a governments job to represent the wants and needs of its people, thats the whole point of them, a referendum should be called on issues like Europe, to deny your people this right is wrong, no matter what the outcome of the vote.

 

[Cylian]

what i cant understand is WHY KEEP VOTING?? theres NOTHING to vote for anymore!

ALL the countried need to vote YES for it to be a reality! with france voting NO theres NOTHING left to vote for. its totally and utterly pointless to even concider it.

When 20 countries have voted "yes", some kind of council will have a talk about this whole charter yet again. Even if all countries had voted "yes", it wouldn't -have- to go live (though, that'd be unlikely).
Personal guess, the politicians will find a work around to get it through anyway

 

[Righthandof]

The only people who benefit from the EU are the poorer countries. Britain and Germany pay the most into it and seem to get the least out of it.

well, in 2004 Hungary was at a 320 million euro loss just because of eu, so wouldnt say its heaven for small countries

 

[Ning]

people here voted "No" because:

1.) They had no clue as to what this constitution meant.

2.) They don't like the current government and want to punish them.

Both those reasons are prime examples as to why decisions like this should be left to politicians who can actually understand why things are important and why or why not you'd want to change things like this. The French people are really really stupid. They're lazy and they don't want to work one extra bit more than what they're supposed to. Even if that means that in 10 years the social security system crumbles into nothing as does the enourmously generous wellfare state (I earn 1800 euros a month after tax, my girlfriend 1600 and even so we can still apply for housing benefits and get them!! We don't because we don't need it but many people do...). They hate the goverment because it's trying to reform laws to avoid this, and this is how they punish it.

Bunch of idiots uke:

Yeah and I guess the Brits weren't lazy when they were hardcore socialists from 1950 to 1986. Your xenophobia and ignorance make me uke:

 

[Ning]

Amagad

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4595423.stm

:eek2:

Foreign policy is none of the business of the PM in France. It's the job of the president (so Chirac). I guess most of the people outside France never heard of the former french PM (Raffarin) for that reason.

 

[Marc]

lol@our government. Typical of Tony Blair to wait until near the end. He wanted to see if anyone else said "no" so he didnt have to have a uk referendum. We seriously need a prime minister with a back bone and one that doesnt kiss chiracs arse. One that will stick two fingers up at europe and tell em to fck off. All they do is cause us aggro. BRING BACK MAGGIE THATCHER!! She wouldn take no shit off anyone.

 

[Ssera]

Yeah and I guess the Brits weren't lazy when they were hardcore socialists from 1950 to 1986. Your xenophobia and ignorance make me uke:

In what way am I being xenophobic? I live in France, I was born in France, I pay my taxes in France, I am French.... I don't like socialists, but that's not being xenophobic.

Just come and live here and look around, and if you already do live here - then go outside and follow some of the rallies and protests and listen to what people are talking about.

Most of the syndicates were calling people to vote "No" to discredit the goverment and punish them for trying to reform the system, it had absolutely nothing to do about Europe or the constitution. Such things that they were against were: the abolishment of 1 public holiday to help the government get more money to help the elderly or making the public sector have to work as long as the private sector before getting your pension. Not much to do with Europe is it?

I'd rather people voted because they've listened to both sides of the argument and made an intelligent choice based on their peronal motivations rather than "the government wants to make me work 1 day more a year so I'm going to vote No to everything they do and hold strikes about it!". Unfortunately your average baguette-wielding frenchman won't understand the political and economic implications of a constitution and will instead follow what everyone else around him is saying.

And Raven: you'll find that nothing much in the political system is "democratic". How many laws are passed every day and not voted on by everyone in the country? In fact how many laws are passed every day and which go unnoticed by the general popullation? Is that being democratic? No, the democracy is that every 5 years you're allowed to change the goverment if you don't like it.

 

[Lamp]

The process of the pan-european ratification of the European Constitution ...

YAWN.....ZZZZ...../snore

 

[Raven]

No, the democracy is that every 5 years you're allowed to change the goverment if you don't like it.

exactly, which is why we have the right to a referendum, as once we sign over to europe it will be one step closer to being part of a superstate run by un-elected europeans.

 

[Ormorof]

BRING BACK MAGGIE THATCHER!! She wouldn take no shit off anyone.

ofc she also caused a load of shit for just about everyone