The atheist bus campaign

[Scouse]

Thank you

Oh and, if thor came down and threatened to shove a lightning bolt up your arse and damn you to eternal burning in the pits of hel, i think you'd be worshipping the bearded buddy up in the sky

If Thor came down I'd ask the fucker to burn me up because chances are he'd just be some blonde muscle-bound twat with delusions of grandeur and mental problems...

 

[old.Tohtori]

If Thor came down I'd ask the fucker to burn me up because chances are he'd just be some blonde muscle-bound twat with delusions of grandeur and mental problems...

And after he proved to you? Say by torching a nearby forest with zizzly powers?

 

[Scouse]

And after he proved to you? Say by torching a nearby forest with zizzly powers?

Never watched Stargate m8? It'd be some sort of spaceship in orbit thang, don't cha knowz

 

[old.Tohtori]

Never watched Stargate m8? It'd be some sort of spaceship in orbit thang, don't cha knowz

Hah. Yeah, but still, if it ws proven to you that it was a real god, would you worship if the alternative was eternal damnation and a screaming yowling agonising death?

Of you and our family none the less.

Old norse gods were bastards.

 

[Scouse]

Hah. Yeah, but still, if it ws proven to you that it was a real god, would you worship if the alternative was eternal damnation and a screaming yowling agonising death?

Of you and our family none the less.

Old norse gods were bastards.

Thankyou back at ya

Believing in a god is an act of faith. Think about that.

That is why I don't argue with religious people - you can't win because they believe and require no evidence. In fact, the presence of evidence to the contrary actually serves to strengthen their convictions.

So what you end up with is the sort of childish banter about norse gods that we've just had. You're not prepared to entertain the idea of no god because whatever nonsense you've been indoctrinated with has removed that possibility. I'm prepared to entertain the idea of a "creator" but not in a religious sense because I know, for fact, that religion is nonsense.

I'm not prepared to entertain the idea of hell because it's a human construct so I can't be threatened by it. If I ever do get "fried" by a norse-god-look-a-like the possibility of hell will be the furthest thing from my mind because A) Souls don't exist and B) I'll be too busy being in excruciating pain.

So, which fruity bunch of nutbars do you belong to then? Catholic? CofE? Meths?

 

[old.Tohtori]

Now, you're going to hate me for saying this but, you're the one who's not willing to entertain a possibility and took a simple discussion into some form of "religion is like this!" discussion.

I said IF a god appeared, and proved itself to you, would you worship it?

Nothing about faith as in that scenario it would be a fact, nothing if there "is or isnt' a god", nothing of the sort, i didn't even try to convert you or doubt your own way of life, i simply stated a scenario.

You said "i wouldn't worship him", i gave a clearer scenario and asked "would you then?"

And even if it has no bearing on the discussion, i'm norse.

 

[Jupitus]

Oh and, if thor came down and threatened to shove a lightning bolt up your arse and damn you to eternal burning in the pits of hel, i think you'd be worshipping the bearded buddy up in the sky

Think folks round here would worship him, atheist or not, if he did that to Kerry Katona

 

[Scouse]

I don't hate you for saying it! Far from it m8. But I will say I'm going to try to avoid a recursive argument because, as I've already indicated, I'm on a hiding to nothing arguing with a religious person about their faith...

I mentioned I'm not willing to entertain the possibility of faith-based arguments. Why? Because they're not provable so no discussion of fact can ever be had.

By that rationale I'm unwilling to enter into a nonsensical discussion about the possibility of a nonsensical norse god frying me and condemning me into a nonsensical hell.

It's standard stuff actually. IF [randomthing] DID EXIST would you [dorandomthing]? Yep. If my cock was 12" I might do porno - but it isn't (unfortunately), so wondering about it is a waste of time...

However, if it makes you feel better, I'll answer your question. I'd never worship anything. I could be forced by an act of violence into performing rituals which could be taken to be worship.

And even if it has no bearing on the discussion, i'm norse.

I find that a lot of religious people hide their true faith in these sort of arguments so as to avoid a historical and fact-based shoeing of their chosen nonsense.

However, this is interesting, if true. So you chose this belief-system? Why? What does the norse religion offer you over one of the more 'modern' belief systems? Where do you worship? Did you have a norse god appear to you in some windy fjord-based vision who commanded you to worship him? Or is it, as I suspect, something you thought was cool when you were a kid and therefore kept up?

 

[DaGaffer]

I said IF a god appeared, and proved itself to you, would you worship it?

No. Why should I? Because he can kill me? Big fucking whoop. And how exactly would this "God" prove it? Frankly every bit of mythology I've ever read paints Gods as total arseholes, including the God of Abraham. So no, it would be fuck you and fuck off.

 

[Chilly]

If someone has power over me then they have power over me, no two ways about it really.

 

[DaGaffer]

If someone has power over me then they have power over me, no two ways about it really.

That doesn't equate to worshipping the one with power over you does it? Power doesn't equal respect.

 

[old.Tohtori]

However, if it makes you feel better, I'll answer your question. I'd never worship anything. I could be forced by an act of violence into performing rituals which could be taken to be worship.

Thank you, all i was asking, no strings or hidden agenda. Just asking IF

So i would assume that eternal damnation would be your choice, and DaGaffer, if god(or other) was proven?

I'm just trying to get the full picture of the extent of "no worship".

I find that a lot of religious people hide their true faith in these sort of arguments so as to avoid a historical and fact-based shoeing of their chosen nonsense.

No need for me to hide, nor am i trying to prove anything. People are by their own choice allowed to worship, bow down, not worship, eat a kitten for dinner. Who am i to judge?

However, this is interesting, if true. So you chose this belief-system? Why? What does the norse religion offer you over one of the more 'modern' belief systems? Where do you worship? Did you have a norse god appear to you in some windy fjord-based vision who commanded you to worship him? Or is it, as I suspect, something you thought was cool when you were a kid and therefore kept up?

Yeah it's true and it is a choice, obviously. But it wasn't a cool factor, simply something i believe. "Felt right" if you will, from a very young age. I "felt" it before, and when i learned from norse gods more, the lore and such fitted perfectly into the mindset i was in already. There's no "appearance" or such, just feels right.

Mostly it's due to the way of the vikings, how they lived, their beliefs etc and as such, it's the most logical choice for me(if faith comes to play), as it was me.

Best example would be that someone lived like jesus, then learned of jesus and, therefor, it's the best choice.

What i get from it is, well, i can't say community as it's not your "run of the mill christianity", but it does give me extra resolve, strength even, to keep up what i'm doing and not be swept into mainstreams. I know, "you could do that without", but extra help is always extra help, even if you're god almighty, you can be god almighty +1.

I think the norse gods have long gone f*cked off, in the caring sense, not that they gave two sh*ts before and by reading some of the intersecting chapters of norse and bible, i've grown to think that while every other god f*cked off to do whatever they do, hump and drink most likely, one god stayed behind to keep an eye on those pesky humans.

I don't worship as such, no beheading chickens or anything like that.

Oh and, i can't say for sure, ofcourse, IF there's gods up there, but as i believe, why not? It's not like i'm hurting anyone or trying to take over the world one heretic at a time

Funny thing is, i get almost equal amount of crap about it from christians and atheists alike. Buddhists don't seem to mind, who've i met that is atleast.

 

[DaGaffer]

So i would assume that eternal damnation would be your choice, and DaGaffer, if god(or other) was proven?

Well if there is a God, I've already taken that choice haven't I? As you might expect, I'm not too worried...

 

[old.Tohtori]

Well if there is a God, I've already taken that choice haven't I? As you might expect, I'm not too worried...

Yes ofcourse and no judgement at it, was just curious on the hypothetical scenario where this omnipotent spaghetti monster, or whoever, came and proved it(somehow, i dunno how gods prove things), would you believe in this god and say "ok, i'll bow down and believe" or even then choose damnation?

 

[Scouse]

If someone has power over me then they have power over me, no two ways about it really.

So, if I had a gun I'd be god?

 

[Scouse]

Thank you, all i was asking, no strings or hidden agenda. Just asking IF

So i would assume that eternal damnation would be your choice, and DaGaffer, if god(or other) was proven?

I'm just trying to get the full picture of the extent of "no worship".

Yes, there were strings attached. You were gagging for me to give you some kind of answer, which is why I phrased my answer very specifically to show that, for example, if someone pointed a gun at me they could make me dance and sing "allah is god".

Under no circumstances could I ever choose "eternal damnation" - because it has never, and will never, exist.

In addition under no circumstances could I acknowledge said being as "god" - because he doesn't exist either. I could be forced to say the words though.

No need for me to hide, nor am i trying to prove anything. People are by their own choice allowed to worship, bow down, not worship, eat a kitten for dinner. Who am i to judge?

I agree with this. I have no problem with people holding religious beliefs, however wacky they are. Equally, I have no problem with people judging beliefs. You can't help it - it's a natural and automatic reaction in the brain. You always make a judgement about pretty much everything, based on your knowledge, prior experiences and beliefs.

In my considered judgement, all religious beliefs since the dawn of man are at best superstition and at worst insidious methods of population control.

Shite, in other words.

What's more, I have evidence to back my judgement up. Faith, by definition, is non-evidential.


I fear I've broken my own "never argue with a religious type" rule here. So I'll make this my last post...

Yeah it's true and it is a choice, obviously. But it wasn't a cool factor, simply something i believe. "Felt right" if you will, from a very young age. I "felt" it before, and when i learned from norse gods more, the lore and such fitted perfectly into the mindset i was in already. There's no "appearance" or such, just feels right.

Fair play old bean. If your faith gives you something you need then that's peachy by me

However, it does fit nicely into what I'm saying. I've no problem with you holding these beliefs, but you can't expect anyone to respect them...

Same goes for Christians, of which I'm baptised one (Methodist, I'm a direct descendant of John Wesley, the founder of that nutbar church). As individuals they happen to be some of the kindest people you meet.

Sanctimonious wankers too though. And the size of the church makes it very dangerous. You may not kill people for your norse beliefs but, by virtue of nothing more than the size of their church, Christians have and continue to do so...

 

[DaGaffer]

Yes ofcourse and no judgement at it, was just curious on the hypothetical scenario where this omnipotent spaghetti monster, or whoever, came and proved it(somehow, i dunno how gods prove things), would you believe in this god and say "ok, i'll bow down and believe" or even then choose damnation?

This is the thing, you keep saying things like "bow down and believe". Why are the two things connected? I could believe without bowing down (and vice versa). I don't believe, but even if I did, I just don't see why I should worship.

 

[old.Tohtori]

Noones asking for respect, you actually "gagged" for my answer on what my religion was Scouse, and i was simply stating a hypothetical situation which, incidentally, proves UTMOST difficult.

I can't say how many times this exact thing has happeneds when "discussing religion" with atheists or agnostics. You can't. It's the same "die hard" attitude that religious nuters hold.

What is so freakin hard in answering a hypothetical question of a hypothetical situation?

"If your shlong was 12", would you do porn", no. There.

"If god appeared and told worship or eternal damnation, would you worship?" Yes/no. Again, done.

But it can't be that simple in this f*cking paranoid world where everything is a supposed trap or has some agenda as your post showed. No strings, but you're fearful of some religion cudies.

Not to mention, all the preaching and attacks have come from your direction. Have i judged you Scouse? No, i've simply asked a question. Not even arguing, which you seem to think this is.

This is the thing, you keep saying things like "bow down and believe". Why are the two things connected? I could believe without bowing down (and vice versa). I don't believe, but even if I did, I just don't see why I should worship.

To make it clear, would you worship or choose eternal damnation? That's what the question was meant as. Simple, no matter if it could happen or not.

 

[old.Tohtori]

But Scouse...don't wnt to start a battle about it. You answered the question as safely as you feel comfortable, ok, we can forget i ever asked as it's obviously not comfortable for you to answer.

But as a small "maybe check into it", i'd like for you to look at how you started normal, but at the very moment i asked a definition, you brought in all this other cr*p in that i never even mentioned. It's the same way you dislike religion in part.

 

[00dave]

I see it as there being so much unfairness and needless suffering in this world that if there is a god then he/it is a c**t and why should we worship him/it.

 

[lecter]

LOL 90k and counting!

 

[Cyradix]

I see it as there being so much unfairness and needless suffering in this world that if there is a god then he/it is a c**t and why should we worship him/it.

Depending on the religion it is all a test or punishment for your previous lives or the deeds of your ancestors

 

[00dave]

Depending on the religion it is all a test or punishment for your previous lives or the deeds of your ancestors

Bloody hell I must have been Hitler or something in a past life.

 

[DaGaffer]

To make it clear, would you worship or choose eternal damnation? That's what the question was meant as. Simple, no matter if it could happen or not.

As I've already said, my public stance makes my position clear.

 

[nath]

Justgiving - Alpha Posters Fundraising Page

Fucking priceless - a day after the atheist campaign starts up, the alpha posters start on one too. Except the atheist campaign was after £5500 and now has nearly 100,000. The alpha course posters campaign is after £100,000 and currently has about 200 quid. Fucking awesome

 

[Bodhi]

Justgiving - Alpha Posters Fundraising Page

Fucking priceless - a day after the atheist campaign starts up, the alpha posters start on one too. Except the atheist campaign was after £5500 and now has nearly 100,000. The alpha course posters campaign is after £100,000 and currently has about 200 quid. Fucking awesome

Mate, the best thing is the people donating 2 quid just so they can slate them and call them a bunch of tossers. I'm guessing of the 219 quid they're currently on about 30 is to get the ads on the buses.

As for me? Don't believe in God no, I do believe in karma though. No higher power, just a circle of life that's evolved as naturally as any other observable behaviour patterns. Just because karma is harder to quantify, doesn't mean it isn't there, much like the air we breathe. But then I believe this, rather than accept it as fact. I'm just trying to be a better person. My Name is Earl.

 

[SheepCow]

A wise man once said, if religion wasn't so widespread all followers would be in insane asylums. A bit far, but an interesting thought.

 

[rynnor]

The thing that should prevent intelligent people following religion is if you look into the way all religions are derived from each other.

I know we have a few folk who like the norse gods but its pretty clear that they are derived from the earlier Greek and Roman gods as the similarities are very marked. Odin = Zeus/Jupiter. Loki=hermes. Thor = Heracles (or Hercules as hes better known) - all they did was localise the names and add new nonsense.

Judaism/christianity/Islam all derive much of their substance from the Ancient egyptians or more specifically from Pharoah Aachen-Aaten - the first recorded inventor of a mono-theistic religion (one god).

All the older religions had many gods or just worshipped the sun/fire etc. all sadly primitive lol.

 

[Raven]

Religion and god worship were originally used to explain things that people didn't understand, the rising of the sun and moon etc, they later became a good way of extorting money from people and a way to control people.

There has never been any proof of any gods existence, there is as much proof of Gandalf from lord of the rings being a real being than there is of god (or any god)

However, generally speaking "god fearing children" don't usually go around shooting each other or nicking cars so it can't all be bad.

Edit: rynor put it a little better than me

 

[rynnor]

However, generally speaking "god fearing children" don't usually go around shooting each other or nicking cars so it can't all be bad.

I think that has more to do with social class than religion - I'd be willing to bet that theres lower levels of violent crime amongs atheists than religious folk too

Another fun thing to think about is - Why is hell always thought of as a hot fiery place? Its because christianity/islam etc. are desert religions so hot = bad , in cold lands they always described hell as a cold place which gives a real insight into how small and unimaginitive were the creators of these religions.

If you want to believe nonsense why not do a Hubbard and write your own nonsense?