The answers to low population?

[ZiggY]

You'd need players to agree with each other. Get 10 DAoCers in a room and ask them what absolutely needs to be changed and you'll get 10 different and contradictory answers.

Additionally, players know jack all about game design. Playing a game doesn;t make you an expert on games design any more than eating makes you an expert chef. Look at any of the 'Mythic must do this to save DAoC!' threads here or on VN boards and you'll see exactly what I mean. What's good for players isn't always good for the game.

Yeah i guess your right..even though i dont play no more i would hate to see it die
Nice to see templars are still about btw helped me get my first epic many years ago even tho i wasnt in the guild :worthy:

 

[ste]

Additionally, players know jack all about game design. Playing a game doesn;t make you an expert on games design any more than eating makes you an expert chef. Look at any of the 'Mythic must do this to save DAoC!' threads here or on VN boards and you'll see exactly what I mean. What's good for players isn't always good for the game.

Thats pretty irrelevent tbh.

If I was eating at the same resturaunt for 5 years I would know whats goods and whats bad about the resturaunt and it's menu. I would also know what items I like and what items I don't, all this without being a chef no less. The same goes for all the other patrons of the resturaunt.

Similarly any chef worth his big hat would take note of his customers wishes if night after night less and less are coming back. He would check what items are not being recieved well by the customers and either change them or replace them. It has nothing, whatsoever, to do with wether the customer knows how to cook the damn things.

Also to claim that every single thread on the subject is worthless is a very sweeping argument, not to mention wrong.

If your statement held true then TOA would never have been nerfed, classic servers would never have been introduced, numerous class nerfs/boosts, multi charge potions added etc the list goes on. All items that were brought about by none game designers (i.e. us the players) asking for/whining about them. Im fairly certain that Mythic would of been more than happy to just work on more expansion packs rather than splitting their resources to include re-working their previous efforts.

The players can, and do, influence the game producers, and should be encouraged to do so. So what if most of the suggestions are pants if we get a few diamonds that help improve or extend the longivity of the game?

 

[chretien]

Thats pretty irrelevent tbh.

If I was eating at the same resturaunt for 5 years I would know whats goods and whats bad about the resturaunt and it's menu. I would also know what items I like and what items I don't, all this without being a chef no less. The same goes for all the other patrons of the resturaunt.

Similarly any chef worth his big hat would take note of his customers wishes if night after night less and less are coming back. He would check what items are not being recieved well by the customers and either change them or replace them. It has nothing, whatsoever, to do with wether the customer knows how to cook the damn things.

People know what they like and don't like. It doesn't necessarily follow that they know how to go from a situation that they don't like to one that they do. It also doesn't follow that the thing they want is good for them or good for the product as a whole. To re-use the chef analogy again, if your customers really like chocolate and they insist that every dish you make would be better if you put chocolate in it, the chef in this case knows better than his customers. Although they are asking for it, they really will not enjoy chocolate curry. Games design is harder than people think it is, especially in a game with so many interlinked mechanisms and fragile balances like DAoC. Players don't look at the big picture, they see it in very simplistic terms. Class A is weak, boost ability B and it's then fixed. They tend not to think of the ramifications to class B that also gets Ability B or to Ability C which uses the same mechanic as Ability B. Alternatively they'll ask for changes which will benefit a small group of players but will disadvantage the vast majority. Players are very rarely in possession of all the data that's needed to make useful changes, too much weight is given to subjective impressions and anecdotal evidence.

Also to claim that every single thread on the subject is worthless is a very sweeping argument, not to mention wrong.

No I'm sure there have been a few worthy ones but they are far outnumbered by the vast mass of kneejerk rant threads by armchair games designers.

If your statement held true then TOA would never have been nerfed, classic servers would never have been introduced, numerous class nerfs/boosts, multi charge potions added etc the list goes on. All items that were brought about by none game designers (i.e. us the players) asking for/whining about them. Im fairly certain that Mythic would of been more than happy to just work on more expansion packs rather than splitting their resources to include re-working their previous efforts.

The players can, and do, influence the game producers, and should be encouraged to do so. So what if most of the suggestions are pants if we get a few diamonds that help improve or extend the longivity of the game?

Providing feedback is good and any sane company will listen to the feedback and weight it appropriately. That's not the same thing that I was talking about though. Back to the chef analogy, tell the chef if you didn't like his food but don't tell him how to cook.

 

[ste]

Your taking the analgy to the extremes to try win the point. No one here is asking Mythic to do something along the lines of 'put chocolate in every dish'. Your also assuming that the people who asked for a chocolate curry wouldn't enjoy one, no-one can possibly know until they've tried it anyway (no matter how disgusting it sounds).

Your also assuming that we all think designing a game is a piece of piss. I know it isn't and im sure the majority of people here know it too. Does that mean we shouldn't ask for stuff to be changed?

It's not even as if Mythic always get it right anyway is it? How many people here would of asked for a class that can instant cast 2 powerful spells at once, then give it the abilty to cast spread heal without using any mana, and should they get into trouble be allowed to uniteruptable cast LT and then use the best mana regen self buff in the game to get them up and running quickly afterwards? And that was introduced by proper game designers. I haven't touched a line of 'C' for many a year but I would of laughed my bollox off at the guy that brought that to me tbh.

The point is you don't need to know all the game mechanics to put ideas forward. Besides using your chefs analogy (for the last time I hope) the situation is more along the lines of the menu already containing 'chocolate curry' (TOA, warlocks etc) and the customers are asking for it to be changed, rather than vice versa.

 

[Shadowen]

This is probably rather late to comment on this thread, but as populations fail, the rate of failure will increase, as the game zones are becomming ghost towns.

IMO this is the right time for mythic to talk to the community and relaunch the game, but using what they have learned, and what the remaining community feels is the right approach. Drop the US/Europe configuration, and have one set of servers, using the current clustering techniques, the can design the system to operate with a minimal number of individual servers, concentrating action - if the popularity increases enough, create more servers, and allow character transfers, which will make the game more dynamic.

Many of the problems in the game are based on simple things, and deviations from good game design.

like Casters with high damage can be near impossible to kill, illogical, as the high damge is a trade off for being easy to kill.

Redesign classes so that there isn't one class that does buffing, and change the buffs to be timered, and/or ingroup only, so that you eliminate the need for buffbots (which is a killer for those who have not). Or simple change the game so that buffs have no effect in PvP zones.

The ability to custom boost amour, without some kind of penalty for doing it is plain silly, as it will balance the game so the haves are overpowered compared to the have nots (kills the large casual player community - which is much larger than the hardcore power players), everything should have a cost, not as in the game currently only limit is how much you can put on. The design need is that gear, while it can be good, will always have a weakness, and no matter how perfect, it is never more than just a minor bit better than easily obtainable gear. Currently in DaoC a 100plat farmed, perfectly spellcrafted suit, is a guaranteed win over the casual player, which is running in epic gear. (not to even mention the realm rank differences).

One way to achieve this is, increasing one resistance, should lower another, increasing one stat should penalize another, so that for every gain you obtain, you loose something. This means that highly tuned gear will lend it self to being very effective in a given situation, but if one person thinks outside the box, then this very effective gear, suddenly become a death trap.

Tradeskilling failed because any toon from lvl 1 up wards can wear lvl 51 gear, this means that low level crafting was just a waste of time, and no one wanted anything until you were lgm+. Gear needs to have clear level limits, so that you cannot wear purple gear, this would give meaning to the trades.

With a redesign, there is a change to turn the tides, though DaoC is an old game, it is still good, though badly mismangaged.

regards
shadowen.

 

[Zill]

You better brace yourselves because the Daoc community is going to shrink even more with the release of Burning Crusade and Warhammer Online.

 

[Raven]

WoW is shit though?

 

[Awarkle]

well the only way to get new people to play the game is to bring in a lot of new players at the same time. Although the classic / si / toa aspects of the game are now free people dont like downloading large mmo's offline to give a game a go.

If i was goas marketting devision i would put the game on the front cover of a magazine, then for the month that the game is run put on 2xEXP in certain zones.

Speak to the E&E's and GM's and have them hang around the starting zones or even in game players. So you can welcome people to the game show them different things like horses and epic armour. Maybe even have a little event like with the dragon attacking magmel (low level dragon of course)

have a nice roleplay event in the frontiers. Just show the people what they are missing.

Offer people who play other mmo's the chance for more equipment. Say if your a WOW player then you get given a plat or so.

you know active poaching from other games

 

[QuickStix]

you are such a noob tbh

insta cc sucks... without it the game be much more fun...

wheres the fun in mezz all.. kill by 1v1 and other grp have no chance . without cc 1v1 or 8v8 or zerg v zerg be much more fun fights if there was no CC.

but there again i expected a comment like that from a L33tist prick like u who always has his head shoved up his own ass.

 

[Gamah]

insta cc sucks... without it the game be much more fun...

wheres the fun in mezz all.. kill by 1v1 and other grp have no chance . without cc 1v1 or 8v8 or zerg v zerg be much more fun fights if there was no CC.

but there again i expected a comment like that from a L33tist prick like u who always has his head shoved up his own ass.

Maybe if someone in your group had purge and you had a demezzer that wasn't shit you wouldn't have that problem?

Also insta CC lasts for about 10 seconds of less with non rog resists, your group must be pretty shit if you can get wiped in 10 seconds xD

Maybe you should get some skill or even common sence and work out how to counter insta cc rather than QQ about it.

 

[Gamah]

This thing made my Brakus makes me laugh, and fits in nicely here!

 

[Ctuchik]

Maybe if someone in your group had purge and you had a demezzer that wasn't shit you wouldn't have that problem?

Also insta CC lasts for about 10 seconds of less with non rog resists, your group must be pretty shit if you can get wiped in 10 seconds xD

Maybe you should get some skill or even common sence and work out how to counter insta cc rather than QQ about it.

crowd control spells still suck tho. can take it from the other way around, "must be some shit group if u acually need CC to win"

hmm?

 

[QuickStix]

Maybe if someone in your group had purge and you had a demezzer that wasn't shit you wouldn't have that problem?

Also insta CC lasts for about 10 seconds of less with non rog resists, your group must be pretty shit if you can get wiped in 10 seconds xD

Maybe you should get some skill or even common sence and work out how to counter insta cc rather than QQ about it.

ooooo another l33tist that likes goes about calling every1 shit or a newb

Mezzing a whole group and killing them one by one before mezz runs out aint much fun..

are you really that stupid to see that no CC would make for more fun fights?

commenting on demezzers and purge/det isnt the point.. i was stating without CC wether it be Insta or Castable.. No mezz/stun would make for much more fun fights. everybody in the grp has to work better together.

This game isnt just for the leetists who wanna pwn everything easy to rack up rps. for a ROG group as u call em.. wheres the fun for them if u mezz em all.. tank slams or healer/hib caster stuns and pwns em one by one in same manner till they are dead BEFORE they can even draw there weapon or cast a spell. where as with no CC at least those newbs or SHIT groups as u letists like to call em at least they can say ooo i hit one of em!!

 

[old.Whoodoo]

You'd need players to agree with each other. Get 10 DAoCers in a room and ask them what absolutely needs to be changed and you'll get 10 different and contradictory answers.

Additionally, players know jack all about game design. Playing a game doesn;t make you an expert on games design any more than eating makes you an expert chef. Look at any of the 'Mythic must do this to save DAoC!' threads here or on VN boards and you'll see exactly what I mean. What's good for players isn't always good for the game.

Amen brother.

TBH theres not a single thing you can do, most of those here saying "do this to fix it" are only saying so from their own standpoint. Mids will say "kill hib stun!", hibs will say "kill warcocks!", albs will say "fuck it, we outnumber the rest so lets zerg boys!".

The /level debate is also too late now, it should never have been put in, even Mythic admit that, and now its sooo easy to get to 20 you hardly see the grind anyway.

Then theres those who believe RvR is DAoC's endgame, they want all the toys no grind whatsoever, I still say they belong on BF2 or CS, but thats what they want and screw anyone who wants to PvE for fun.

The BB debate too, killing off BBs will piss so many off, who have put money, time and effort into competing in both PvE and RvR, why should thye now loose all that for the few who think it will improve their personal game?

We are still here, we will still be whining about all this for months to come, what changes you personally want are now impossible without drastic changes to code, playstyles and prolonged testing. Play the game as is for fun, stop taking it so seriously, or simply move on to one of the many many games out there that may just offer you that little difference to make you happy.

Promoting the game now is also pointless, in 7-8 months WAR will come and people will move on.

I still love this game, and most of the people in it, but I play for fun, not for life.

Ill join Gamah on this, kewl for sigs

 

[Gamah]

ooooo another l33tist that likes goes about calling every1 shit or a newb

Mezzing a whole group and killing them one by one before mezz runs out aint much fun..

are you really that stupid to see that no CC would make for more fun fights?

commenting on demezzers and purge/det isnt the point.. i was stating without CC wether it be Insta or Castable.. No mezz/stun would make for much more fun fights. everybody in the grp has to work better together.

This game isnt just for the leetists who wanna pwn everything easy to rack up rps. for a ROG group as u call em.. wheres the fun for them if u mezz em all.. tank slams or healer/hib caster stuns and pwns em one by one in same manner till they are dead BEFORE they can even draw there weapon or cast a spell. where as with no CC at least those newbs or SHIT groups as u letists like to call em at least they can say ooo i hit one of em!!

Aye I am the best player currently active on Cluster! Basicly you want an easy mode game where you dont have to think your casters can just tap 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1. As I metioned before, CC is easy to counter.

 

[QuickStix]

Aye I am the best player currently active on Cluster! Basicly you want an easy mode game where you dont have to think your casters can just tap 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1. As I metioned before, CC is easy to counter.

all realm have casters... a fg v fg fight would be more fun and last longer if all was free to heal/melee/cast spells....

and much more entertaining in vids than mezz the fg on stick ... slam /nuke assist train on each target till all dead and b4 mezz wears off.

lets me put it at a different angle.


which do you think would be more fun (after all we play this game for FUN , if u think its all about rps.. then i feel sorry for any1 who thinks that way)

1/ your group gets mezz'd .. enemy asisst slams/stuns you and kill all 3/4 of your group before mezz wears off.. leaving is then 8 v 2-3 / hence v v easy win for enemy grp. and 3/4 of your group didnt even get to cast a spell or draw there weapon.

2/ there is NO cc ... engage enemy.. and you actually get to draw your weapon or cast a spell... and the fight is more free cos u aint mezzd waiting for enemy to assist train u. yes u will still die to a superior group etc etc... but u actually was able to do summin other than pre type /release whilst mezzd and wait for the inevitable.


im not commenting on purge or demezzers.. my comments are purely what i think would make fights more FUN!!! and as said above if to you its all about easy rps.. and not about fun.. then i pity ya

 

[Gamah]

I play for Rpts, thats Why I play 18 hours every day tbh.

 

[BloodOmen]

The answer to low population is long gone since... the answer was stop being a bunch of whining twats and zerging/ac raiding/adding/di bot using and just in general being cocks.... sadly something you can't put into effect now since most people have already fucked off :l

 

[Zill]

WoW is shit though?

The PvP system is repetative and not as good as DAOC's realm vs realm, but its fun and fast paced and beautiful to look at.

DAOC has become a hybrid of various games distancing itself more and more from the original theme of the Arthurian legend. All the simplicity, fairness, balance and skill have been replaced by pointless, intricate features and class upgrades that have spoiled the enjoyment and made a mockery of the game. The servers will continue to dwindle as a result because the problems are rooted too deeply.

The only solution would be to create a server with one of the original patches (like 1.48 patch) with no battlgrounds, houses, realm abilities, TOA, bind stones in keeps... and the other crap. The only patches should be correcting bugs, adding more dungeons, weapons and armour drops. Theres sod all chance of that happening though.

And don't worry you people with buffbots, Mythic won't touch these with a 10 foot bargepole as it would lose them income. When it comes to balance and fairness Mythic's principles are out of the window.

 

[kirennia]

all realm have casters... a fg v fg fight would be more fun and last longer if all was free to heal/melee/cast spells....

and much more entertaining in vids than mezz the fg on stick ... slam /nuke assist train on each target till all dead and b4 mezz wears off.

lets me put it at a different angle.


which do you think would be more fun (after all we play this game for FUN , if u think its all about rps.. then i feel sorry for any1 who thinks that way)

1/ your group gets mezz'd .. enemy asisst slams/stuns you and kill all 3/4 of your group before mezz wears off.. leaving is then 8 v 2-3 / hence v v easy win for enemy grp. and 3/4 of your group didnt even get to cast a spell or draw there weapon.

2/ there is NO cc ... engage enemy.. and you actually get to draw your weapon or cast a spell... and the fight is more free cos u aint mezzd waiting for enemy to assist train u. yes u will still die to a superior group etc etc... but u actually was able to do summin other than pre type /release whilst mezzd and wait for the inevitable.


im not commenting on purge or demezzers.. my comments are purely what i think would make fights more FUN!!! and as said above if to you its all about easy rps.. and not about fun.. then i pity ya

To me the issue of crowd control has gotten better and better as time goes on. You used the analogy for FG fights so I'll do the same.

Crowd control has several counters to stop you dying in it. If we ever had more then 2 people insta mezzed on impact in our group, something was wrong and almost never was our demezzer the one standing there preying for a banelord to break his mezz. If all 8 of your group get mezzed then they aren't paying attention and would die anyway. It wouldn't matter about mezz not being there because you'd be /assisted down before the group woke up anyway. It's very easy to simply press left or right when you see enemies unless you aren't even looking at the screen. In which case, you wouldn't deserve to win a fight anyway.

FG fights in agramon very rarely were under a minute in length. Mostly they lasted for 2-5minutes and some epic ones could last for anything upto 7 or 8.

Pointing the finger at an Agramon goer calling them a 'rp farmer' is folly. Agramon will yeild MUCH less realm points then simply farming a bridge will unless the groups out that particular night are all much worse then you (which hasn't happened once since I've been going there).


Anyway, back to CC. If you take away CC, a group of 6 casters (+healers)will nearly ALWAYS destroy a tank group, a hybrid group or anything you can put together. 6 nukes before they get into range, bam, first guy dead. Rinse and repeat. By the time any tank gets into range, all of his buddies are already dead.

Fights would be over much much quicker without crowd control against any group with an upper hand over yours UNLESS you're all afk stuck to the leader, then of course, there is still very little difference because you'd die anyway.

 

[Lyrra]

Here's my 2p, for what it's worth.

The problems are:

- lack of RvR grouping for new players, mainly because veterans run in optimised groups and steamroller PUGs.
- the gap between old and new players is far too wide. New players might form pugs but they don't stand a chance.
- buffbots, ehough said.
- TOA toys, ehough said.

I used to love this game, but could never return. I have no sympathy for the RP whores who, in my opinion, have ruined this game. I have spent many hours lfg at Albion PK/Sauvage, even when I levelled a "grp friendly" class like a mercenary to 50. The last time I returned I ended up soloing my merc and kept getting owned. What fun is that?

If you're in a 8 man group and steamroller everyone, do you really think you're helping the game in the long term? Enjoy your short term gains while you still have some enemies to fight.

:england:

 

[Zill]

Here's my 2p, for what it's worth.

The problems are:

- lack of RvR grouping for new players, mainly because veterans run in optimised groups and steamroller PUGs.
- the gap between old and new players is far too wide. New players might form pugs but they don't stand a chance.
- buffbots, ehough said.
- TOA toys, ehough said.

I used to love this game, but could never return. I have no sympathy for the RP whores who, in my opinion, have ruined this game. I have spent many hours lfg at Albion PK/Sauvage, even when I levelled a "grp friendly" class like a mercenary to 50. The last time I returned I ended up soloing my merc and kept getting owned. What fun is that?

If you're in a 8 man group and steamroller everyone, do you really think you're helping the game in the long term? Enjoy your short term gains while you still have some enemies to fight.

:england:

I could not agree more.

The golden days of this game (the first year or so after its release) are long gone. No amount of changing or tweaking the problems or dynamics in the game will alter that fact. And it's not just about the game losing its a appeal, its also about most players having appalling self-serving attitudes obsessed with realm points, owning all and sundry, having 10 or so characters on various servers and distancing themselves from anyone not having the top gear. Its the same in World Of Warcraft. The challenge, common sense of purpose in what was best for the realm, comradery and community spirit have gone.

There's a guild on the Burning Legion server in WoW called "who cares". Need I say more

 

[Daedalus]

Cope or quit is my suggestion.

I guess that's kind of the whole problem