The answers to low population?

[Reformed]

Ok. I think everyone agrees that the game population is low and getting lower. It is obvious that everyone really wants to play on the main toa server. What then are the reasons for trying to start a classic server or any other server for that matter? Well it is to address the problems that have accumulated with the main server obviously. I think my ideas really are the answer and probably quite a few others have thought the same way. Really the reasons lots have quit or tried another server are down to:

1. Buffbots.
2. TOA
3. SC

Now then why not try and get some semblance of balance with the above so that it addresses all the issues. The main gripe really is the buffbot. Without buffing TOA could be fun and the effects wouldn't be so drastic. Here then I think is a way around the currect spate of unrest amongst the gaming population (steps onto rostrum ) . Bugger it, hold on I losing it and going into Thug's mode - arrggghhh. Sheesh. Close that. Where was I? Oh yeah. The answer is staring me in the face and has been for ages. What does everyone want? Well a level playing field where fights are fun and not over in seconds. Well then here is how to attain it and get back all the players that have shot off elsewhere such as migrated to the classic.

1. Vastly reduce buffbot spells but don't change the way they work - range wise etc. This would have the effect of making players play better but not transformed as they are now. Buffbots would still be used by many for sure. Reducing buffbot power would alter the whole way the game currently works and can be lowered gradually so people can see how much they want and will settle for. Also - and this is vital - there should be a max buffbot increase which can't be passed. This limit can and should be reachable by increasing the power of sc so that non buffbot players can reach the same levels as buffed ones. This would make playing with one account viable as all you would need is to train some alts in crafting. A non sc guy can still quickly play with others and be 'equal' if he has a buffbot.

2. TOA? This perhaps was a big mistake but maybe not if buffbot spells are reduced in power. I think though that a buffbot should not get extra buffing power as he seems to have now with TOA stuff. If that remains then it does upset the balance of the game a great deal. Also I think that TOA should not affect players in Thid. Can you do TOA stuff when you are not 50? No idea to be honest but I think it belongs in the 50 category for sure. Once the buffbot boost is removed from TOA it starts to make sense.

3. Upgrade sc so it is helps create a level playing field so that point 1 is viable.

Blast I was gonna put a poll in this but I don't know how? Can someone tell me quickly so I can edit this!

 

[Raven]

delete lifetap, delete bridges, delete zerglings = win

 

[Reformed]

It is amazing wot comes out of my ed when I been sober forra while innit . Hell I could have made the above into a song come to think of it.

 

[QuickStix]

delete lifetap, delete bridges, delete zerglings = win

u forgot to delte hib stun on casters... and insta CC from ALL realm.

the less CC In game the better IMO.. makes for fun frantic fights instead of get the jump , mezz.. assist and kill em one by one before mezz wears off

 

[Himse]

delete lifetap, delete bridges, delete zerglings = win

wait, why not just delete the game?


Delete soloers too! They are all whine.

 

[Draypor]

wait, why not just delete the game?


Delete soloers too! They are all whine.

ROFL

 

[Tesla Monkor]

Deleting buffbots is a two-edged sword, though.

1) Deleting them doesn't equal other people getting groups. It'll just mean the roles in the existing groups will be shuffled around and someone will be running a shammie.

2) It'll piss everyone with a bot off. Including all dedicated FGs, and stealthers.

3) It won't improve the survival rate of Teh Zerg or subpar groups. They'll still get farmed like it's harvest time.

4) The loss of revenue from inactive accounts will rise even higher. That alone is enough reason for it not happening.

 

[Eleasias]

u forgot to delte hib stun on casters... and insta CC from ALL realm.

the less CC In game the better IMO.. makes for fun frantic fights instead of get the jump , mezz.. assist and kill em one by one before mezz wears off

you are such a noob tbh

 

[Reformed]

Deleting buffbots is a two-edged sword, though.

Don't think anyone has mentioned deleting buffbots have they? My solution is that they help in creating a level playing field by boosting anyone that hasn't any sc upto an sc guys limit. They still have other buffs such as end or af wotever that are great in groups, and ofcourse since everyone won't be hitting so hard or so fast they could probably heal a lot better too.

 

[Azathrim]

I thought people by now would have finished whining about those things.

It's a dead horse, broken record and a trivial issue.


If Mythic did as this badly worded suggestion proposes, the game would be in need of a major rebalancing. You may belive the game needs fine retuning currently, but the current balance is based on all having buffs.

Cope or quit is my suggestion.

 

[Reformed]

If Mythic did as this badly worded suggestion proposes, the game would be in need of a major rebalancing. You may belive the game needs fine retuning currently, but the current balance is based on all having buffs.

You have gotta be kidding. You mean the reason the game is so badly unbalanced is because of buffs. You think Mythic designed casters to have such quick casting times? Loads of the alts now perform far beyond Mythic's initial ideas for the class and it is all down to being boosted with sc - buffs and TOA. SC limits are sufficient for sure and make tons of difference to how an alt works. More than enough. Probably too much. Don't forget I played this game right at the beginning when there weren't any buffbots or sc. My solution doesn't take the buffbots out of the game but lowers the limits and thereby will greatly help gameplay without anyone having to drop any account. How many would come back to the game with my solution? All my mates would as they refused to run 2 accounts. Some shot off to the US classic server too.

 

[Reformed]

Cope or quit is my suggestion.

I did cope for as long as I could. I played in Thid for ages whilst unbuffed whilst everyone else were buffed. I still managed to 'cope' as you call it. I really had to call it a day though when buffed TOA was becoming the norm. It made all the difference even at Thid level. Me now? I play on EU Classic totally by myself . By myself I emphasize and not with myself. Though if I did no-one would notice cos there ain't no-one there.

 

[censi]

numbers will just keep dwindling overtime and the people that leave are generally the ones who find the end game a bit pointless. The ones that stay are the ones that think the end game roxs!

 

[Azathrim]

You have gotta be kidding.

No.

You mean the reason the game is so badly unbalanced is because of buffs.

No.

You think Mythic designed casters to have such quick casting times?

Yes.
In fact it seems pretty evident they did so considering it have been like this for years now.

Loads of the alts now perform far beyond Mythic's initial ideas for the class and it is all down to being boosted with sc - buffs and TOA. SC limits are sufficient for sure and make tons of difference to how an alt works.

Yes, all the first released classes have evolved from what they were at the release of the game. I am happy the game evolves. Are you not?

Claiming SC limits are sufficient is purely an oppinion. You liked the game better back then? Fair enough. Your choise. Any MMO have to evolve, including DAoC. That's what you signed up for. Hell, it's even what they advertise with!

More than enough. Probably too much. Don't forget I played this game right at the beginning when there weren't any buffbots or sc.

I played it back then too. I doubt any of us would've been around here had the game not progressed since then. Or at least, we would've been very lonely if we were.

My solution doesn't take the buffbots out of the game but lowers the limits and thereby will greatly help gameplay without anyone having to drop any account.

How would it "greatly help" gameplay excactly? Some classes would perform better, others would perform worse. But how does that "greatly help" anything but your own personal dislike for buffbots and ToA?

How many would come back to the game with my solution? All my mates would as they refused to run 2 accounts. Some shot off to the US classic server too.

I don't think anyone knows the excact effect on open accounts. One thing is for sure though, and that is Mythic have judged the effect and decided to uphold the current situation.
My personal guess is, that your "mates" would've quit anyways down the road. Everyone that leaves a game needs an excuse to do so. If it hadn't been buffbots it would've been something else. Hell, it might as well have been that Mythic were lazy and never evolved the game.

 

[Reformed]

I think you are totally misguided in all your opinions. Nothing so far suggested by anyone has helped the low population and declining numbers. Do you think Mythic wanted to create a 'Classic' server for instance? There are least you have a chance to play alts as they should be played. But as most rpg players are die hard 'gotta have the best' they can't do without the trimmings.

Game balance - lets consider this a moment. Using your reasoning lowering buff power down to the sc limit would make some alts perform better and some worse. The only ones that would perform better should perform better and they are the self buffed ones. The rest would all play in a 'balanced' way as all would be reduced in effectiveness the same amount. Am pretty sure that lowering everyone down to the sc limit would hardly upset anyone. It is a pretty high limit anyways so the alts would still perform really well. Any class that has been created recently or twinked to cope with being unbuffed against buffed - such as the vamp - would have to be looked at for sure but there not many of them.

You think I wanted to shoot off to the 'Classic'? I was more than happy bashing people in Thid whilst unbuffed. Toa put paid to that. This is at Thid level and I am considered a pretty fair player. The effects of buffing and TOA at level 50 is absolutely astonishing. I once had 2 sbs at 50. Took them there to that level to see how la and crit worked - both were full in either skill. My unbuffed level 50 sb had lower stats than my level 24 buffed sb bar for con and hits. That is the power of buffing from just a level 24 buffbot. How would anyone new to the game manage with one account? What does he do? Well the only viable course of action is to head for US Classic or play some other game.

The game needs to be played by people with one account. SC level is enough and the buffbot should only be able to push the stats to the sc limit and no more.

Hell the solution is there above and all could play once more on the main server!

 

[Phantomby]

i thought for a while that with lotm and the increase of CL levels to 10 they may have added a second tier of buffs closer to actual buff bonuses making running one acc more viable and not dramatically changing classic except for the fact you would need to buy lotm to compete (or run in a fg).

wouldnt that have the same effect as what is proposed only from the other angle?

 

[Fatload BoysDoCry]

The UK servers primarily will continue to decline in population for the simple fact that most days the server doesn't break 800-900 people and GOA as usual will wait to the very last minute before they react (200-300 population on the cluster).

This isn't so bad for those who like the solo aspect of the game, but for those who enjoy the all out war part and even 8v8 it can get very boring with little going on. Having played on Merlin for a year and playing when we regularly got over 3k of people last xmas and the cluster still gets around 1.8-2k of people it is ultimately more fun. More groups for 8v8 and more people for keep/tower fights.

DAOC on the US servers is extremely fun, and despite the time differences i would encourage those who still enjoy the game to move there.

 

[Lamp]

The only way to redress server population is for more people to play on them. Pure and simple. New players need to come on board - which isn't going to happen given the lack of DAOC marketing, and the availability of competition (World of Warcraft, and soon Warhammer).

Initially, WoW took many DAOC players, but a lot of WoWers are now back playing DAOC. I have a feeling Warhammer will be the same. Initially everyone will play it, then a year later they'll get fed up with the FOTM-gamer kids (who have moved from WoW to Warhammer), and/or get fed up with the simplistic game engine, and come back to DAOC.

In the "About Glastonbury" thread, Requiel has made it explicitly clear that Mythic are NOT going to introduce major changes to the game dynamic because (1) they are opposed to introducing mere short-term solutions to a problem inherrent with the server itself; (2) they do not wish to impact the balance and playability of the other servers which may be affected by such fixes; and (3) fixes such as /charcopy and /level50 are never going to be permitted by Mythic as they would effectively destroy the foundation of the game, which is PVE or RVR leveling from 1-50.

/Level 50 in any form is not going to happen. Whether it's simply an alteration of the current /level command, an NPC like the Gold and Glory mob on test servers or some other mechanism, we are not going to offer a server where you can go to level 50 without playing the game. There are several reasons for this and I'll list the most important ones.
Firstly, any such ruleset change would have to be agreed with Mythic. As Mythic do not offer this ruleset (instant 50) there is no chance that we would be allowed to offer it. At its base it goes against the core concept of DAoC which is to develop your character through PvE and RvR gameplay. This is pretty much the be all and end all argument but I'll give you some other reasons why it won't happen.
While it would undoubtedly boost Glastonbury population in the short term it would do so at the expense of other, viable servers and would likely put those servers into the same position that Glastonbury is in now. On top of that, it is my strongly held belief that such a population boost would be purely temporary and that once the novelty wore off, Glastonbury would be in the same position all over again. We do not want to cripple our other servers to obtain a temporary solution to Glastonbury. Any fix for Glastonbury has to be self-sustaining and based around the core of a solid and continually developing community. You won't get that with insta 50.

Merging, charcopying or otherwise joining together Salisbury and Glastonbury is not an attractive option for us. Mostly because it reduces the choice that we make available. There can be no half measures in this case, it wouldn't be an optional change, either everyone would go or no-one would, we'd not further split the communities on those servers. So the first thing that would need to happen is that either Salisbury would be changed to an English server or Glastonbury would become a German one, then such database merges or clustering would be possible. Unfortunately, we would then have removed an element of choice from our customers and we would inevitably upset at least as many players as we helped. German players would not be happy about suddenly being forced to play in English and many Glastonbury players do not speak sufficient German to be able to enjoy the game on Salisbury.

In short any change that we make would have to be along the lines of encouraging a viable and healthy community on Glastonbury. We want to keep an English language classic server and we want it to be seen as a playable option. We are looking at ways we can make it attractive to play there but ultimately we cannot force players to move and we won't damage other servers to do so.

 

[Phantomby]

but its like trying to fill up 6 cups with an ever decreasing water supply, your never gonna be able to fill them all.

 

[Raven]

Cope or quit is my suggestion.

isnt that the problem though? the idiots like to spoil it for everyone by zerging and griefing then wonder why the server is dead, its quite comical really.

enjoy your dead server noobs xD

 

[Icebreaker]

All old Online Games go down at some Point no matter how good they are.Reasons are Daoc is old and People aren't interested in it anymore and new People look for newer Games like EQ2, WoW and all the other MMORPGS who are coming out soon.

And there is nothing Mythic or GoA can do apart from creating a Daoc 2.

Yea and i doubt the Balance Issues or Zerging thing or whatever has something to do with the lower population. In that case the Game would have been a deathbirth because those things are part of Daoc since the beginning. (Hello Instakill Casters without unstealthing, Mega Smite Clerics, Savages etc etc bla bla)

 

[Reformed]

All old Online Games go down at some Point no matter how good they are.Reasons are Daoc is old and People aren't interested in it anymore and new People look for newer Games like EQ2, WoW and all the other MMORPGS who are coming out soon.

And there is nothing Mythic or GoA can do apart from creating a Daoc 2.

Not sure what DAOC 2 is? Are they making a follow up? Probably a good idea to wipe the slate clean and start again. Personally I think DAOC is still a great game but it has been ruined with the misguided addons. Also they never put paid to 2 account buffing when it first started showing. I think that was down to greed on their part which they gloated over for years. Now though it has bitten them in the arse big time. The original game was wonderful fun and still is. I bet if someone set up the original game on a free shard (or wotever they call it) lots would play it. They should have stuck with just introducing new characters and better in game story lines, such as treasure hunting - tournaments. Anything but making people's alts into absolute killer machines that kill in seconds. How can they address the issues now? If I was in charge of the game then I would some drastic cuts in players power for one thing. Sod the whiners as there will always be loads of them. I would gradually phase out the 'elitist' approach to the game and get it back to it's roots. I would take away the game destroying boosting of alts and instead look for ways of boosting the gaming area. By the time I would have finished with it new players could start on the main server with one account only. Players would need to explore the gaming world to get 'uber' items. In other words make the game fun again.

The fault with this game lies just as much with the players as Mythic. YOU ARE ALL BLOODY POWER MAD. All players can think about is making their alt 'uber' to the exclusion of everything else. Well whooopiieee doooo. Now the game is totally shagged!

 

[Azathrim]

Sod the whiners as there will always be loads of them.

Is that not excactly what Mythic are doing by ignoring you?

I would gradually phase out the 'elitist' approach to the game and get it back to it's roots.

Personally I would make world peace and hand out chokolate icecream for free.

And when Im back in this reality, I would ask you how on earth you would phase out anything but your own whine? Hell, back in the days people farmed Spindelhalla for the "l33t" gear that drops there. Elitist approach have always, is always and will always be part of the game. Just like all games will have people who for various reasons cannot or will not cope with the situation (be that hunt for gear or zergs) and leave the game.

You are not a good enough player to deal with the changing game, thus you whine. Just like there are people who cannot adapt to the zergs and whine about that.

Sure, I would prefer a game where people didn't zerg it up. It's frustrating, it's annoying at times. But, it's part of the challenge that defines who are good players and who are quitters. Some of the big names got their fame on farming zergs (and no, I don't see myself as one of the great players).

 

[Reformed]

You are not a good enough player to deal with the changing game, thus you whine. Just like there are people who cannot adapt to the zergs and whine about that.

Is that so. Well just ask your fellow players who Thugs is and was and maybe they will put you right on that score. I played in Thid for ages whilst purposely making myself weak so I gave everyone a chance to kill me. No buffs and no TOA. I also played an sb when they were considered by far the worse assassin at the time. So there you go my approach to the game was and is far different than most because I killed by exploiting the game mechanics and learning how to play my alt the best possible way - and also by the most unauthodox ways too. The only whiners were the buffed guys that I killed. I was having a ball killing them and not giving them any reason to question the fact they had been 'pwned'. There were no excuses. Skill baby - skill. Pure and simple.

If you ain't seen how I used to play then take a look at this:

Buffed SC'd Valewalker against Thugs - unbuffed SB (no crit)

The guitar playing in the background is by me too .

Reckon you could do that m8y - without any perfing to start the fight off too?

 

[Azathrim]

Everyone hopefully have their good moments. I don't deny you handled your thid SB well.

You never made it in the big leagues though. Let me quote:

Yah got me beat. No way can I handle level 50 RVR. I gonna own up to that once and for all. Been interesting to see how quickly I can die and I must say it is impressively fast. Buffs to me don't seem to make any difference cos my sb is still utterly crap.

Will say one more thing though before I shut up on this subject entirely and that is I am not the only one that dies so fast. Did my bit of sight seeing tonight and I just have to say that everyones damage is far too high now for anyone to really have fun. I mean death is nigh on instantaneous at times.

Nah. Am too much of a gimp for level 50 and I gonna leave you all to it. If they reduce everyones damage and speed to at least half then maybe the game at 50 might look fun but to me in the short time I have seen it and acted in it it has come across as being out of control. Never seen any other game where people can dish out so much damage in so short a time.

Yah got me beat for sure! Infact Mythic got me beat also cos I bored with Thid as well. So there you go another player heads off into the sunrise.

One more thing. This game at level 50 is not doing you lot justice for all the hard work you have put into it so I recommend you try a different one like WOW when it comes out.

Seems to me like you are just whining in the same track since March 2004.

But it's ok, Im sure you think of yourself as the best shadowblade around.

Skill kid - skill. Pure and Simple!

 

[Nate]

Is that so. Well just ask your fellow players who Thugs is and was and maybe they will put you right on that score. I played in Thid for ages whilst purposely making myself weak so I gave everyone a chance to kill me. No buffs and no TOA. I also played an sb when they were considered by far the worse assassin at the time. So there you go my approach to the game was and is far different than most because I killed by exploiting the game mechanics and learning how to play my alt the best possible way - and also by the most unauthodox ways too. The only whiners were the buffed guys that I killed. I was having a ball killing them and not giving them any reason to question the fact they had been 'pwned'. There were no excuses. Skill baby - skill. Pure and simple.

If you ain't seen how I used to play then take a look at this:

Buffed SC'd Valewalker against Thugs - unbuffed SB (no crit)

The guitar playing in the background is by me too .

Reckon you could do that m8y - without any perfing to start the fight off too?

it's all thid though, and to a lot of people that means it has no meaning ;o it misses out on a lot of the game playing in thid..higher level play has much more abilities to look out for. all that shows is you used some abilities the valewalker didn't bother getting/didn't have due to lower rr

 

[Reformed]

Seems to me like you are just whining in the same track since March 2004.

But it's ok, Im sure you think of yourself as the best shadowblade around.

Don't kid yourself. If I had wanted to play at level 50 I would have and I would have done extremely well there too. No bloody way did I want to as it stunk. Too many toys and buffs and all the rest of the rubbish. What happened when the level 50 boys came back to Thid without their 'toys'? You guessed it I killed them all. You think I couldn't have transfered my alt from Thid to level 50? Guess again. Took a look around and level 50 was orrible. Always said the game should have stuck at Thid level as it was far more fun. Glad I never bothered with level 50 too or I would never have learned how to play the guitar for one thing. All them hours with TOA and god knows wot? Who is the winner at the end of the day? Well I reckon I am. Tons of fun in Thid and I can now play the guitar to a pretty high standard. Level 50? Complete shite and I never needed to fight to see it was too. I just wandered around and looked at stuff. Dreadful.

 

[Reformed]

Level 50? Complete shite and I never needed to fight to see it was too. I just wandered around and looked at stuff. Dreadful.

Lemme clarify this a bit. I came from playing UO where you could have hillarious fights there that could last for ages - minutes - with one guy running off and hiding etc. Absolute bonkers fun. Then I came to DAOC and well I loved it - still like playing infact. But I like fights to last for as long as possible as this equates to fun to me. I was a crit sb forra while but one shotting casters eventually made me guilty for killing someone so fast. I liked to give all a chance and for the fights to last for some time. Now then as the game progressed in my mind I thought with all the extra con and hits then fights would last longer and by the time level 50 came the same gameplay at thid level would be that much improved at 50 surely? But no there was another equation running and that was players power curve. By the time that 50 came along players power was and is through the roof. Fights instead of lasting longer were over very much faster. Having stayed stealthed up I watched various fights going on at 50 and I noted how fast everyone was getting killed. All that work getting kitting out! - multiple accounts! - and fights ending up a hell of a lot shorter than in Thid? I couldn't for the life of me see what the attraction for playing at level 50 was. I still don't. It really looks terrible to someone like me. No fun at all. Couldn't see the fun other people were having either as tanks were dropping like flies when attacked by casters or stealthers. I quickly came to the conclusion that the fun for me was in Thid and there I stayed. I think I have the right attitude to an online game - fun and excitement. Not annihilating someone in 2 seconds flat. Just my opinion ofcourse and you can consider it an excuse if you want. I ain't bothered really as I deff did the right thing and didn't waste tons of my time on TOA or crafting or running so many accounts for so long.

 

[ZiggY]

The answers to low population?

Listen to the customers who pay subs?

 

[chretien]

The answers to low population?

Listen to the customers who pay subs?

You'd need players to agree with each other. Get 10 DAoCers in a room and ask them what absolutely needs to be changed and you'll get 10 different and contradictory answers.

Additionally, players know jack all about game design. Playing a game doesn;t make you an expert on games design any more than eating makes you an expert chef. Look at any of the 'Mythic must do this to save DAoC!' threads here or on VN boards and you'll see exactly what I mean. What's good for players isn't always good for the game.