Football The 2013 / 2014 Season Thread

[caLLous]

Haha, that's brilliant. Talk about rubbing salt in the wound.

 

[eksdee]

It's just baffling. Sign Mata, play him wide right in a 442 and cross the ball to a striker who is passable in the air but certainly no Alan Shearer.

 

[caLLous]

Taking Young off was a weird one too, he was actually having a pretty decent game.

What that screencap fails to mention is that it was United's first loss to Spurs at OT since... last season.

 

[megadave]

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=082XKZMKKzE&feature=youtube_gdata_player

 

[Himse]

hahah thats incredible, poor Mata having to deal with that.

 

[ileks]

Since when did putting crosses into the box become bad football? If just one or two of those resulted in a goal, pundits on match of the day would be saying how great it is to put the ball in dangerous areas like they did all game long.

There were some shockers but when Young cuts inside and puts in a cross with his right foot it's really hard to defend against.

 

[Scouse]

Since when did putting crosses into the box become bad football? ... it's really hard to defend against.

Saw some stats earlier in the season that you need to get a fuckload of crosses into the box to get a decent goal return - because crosses are quite easy to defend against...

 

[ileks]

Saw some stats earlier in the season that you need to get a fuckload of crosses into the box to get a decent goal return - because crosses are quite easy to defend against...

They put a fuckload of crosses into the box.

 

[Scouse]

They put a fuckload of crosses into the box.

Seems to hold up the argument made by the data then doesn't it?


Edit: And the argument made by Fulham was that they were quite happy that United played like that.

Liverpool, on the other hand, now play through the middle, or run down the by-line before pulling back. Not many crosses from the wings particularly - most of the crosses into the box come from Gerrard set-piece fun.

And fun it is. We're scoring bucketloads. And it's not like Mata, Rooney and Van Persie couldn't play like that...

 

[ileks]

Seems to hold up the argument made by the data then doesn't it?

Firstly, what data? Secondly, all I said was Young's crosses from the first half were dangerous. You decided to chop half of what I said out of the quote.

Obviously long diagonal balls aren't effective. If you watch that video, at least ten of those balls in could have created a goal.

 

[Scouse]

If you watch that video, at least ten of those balls in could have created a goal.

Ten out of 80 odd - the record breaking amount of crosses. And yet, they didn't win, did they? Record breaking crosses amount and they failed.

I'll try to find the link for ya (but I'm back from the gym so I'm not gonna try too hard) - but if you believe that it exists - it says crosses are really ineffective and relatively easy to defend. Borne out by the Fulham defenders saying they were glad Utd played liket that, because it's easier to defend.

 

[Scouse]

Can't find the article with the actual stats in table form @ileks - but this one will do

 

[ileks]

Can't find the article with the actual stats in table form @ileks - but this one will do

That's a rubbish article!

Stats in football just don't work like that. Crosses from where on the pitch? Against which opposition? With which type of player up front? With how many players in the box? I could go on for absolutely ages like that. There are too many variables to make any sense of the data in question. Not only that but saying crosses are ineffectual assumes you could be doing something more productive with the ball, which isn't always the case (especially against a team parking the bus).

Anyways, no point

 

[Scouse]

Stats in football just don't work like that...There are too many variables to make any sense of the data...

Disgree. Stats describe what is. And "too many variables" is just a way of saying "OMG! Complex0rz!"

Clubs dedicate the lives of many people and billions of pounds on figuring these things out. Big data is in its infancy in football - but it'll be transformative.

 

[caLLous]

I... I... what?

 

[Madmaxx]

lmao

 

[ileks]

And "too many variables" is just a way of saying "OMG! Complex0rz!"

This tells me all I need to know about your understanding of this topic Football isn't baseball. I really doubt they are spending billions too

 

[Embattle]

Since when did putting crosses into the box become bad football? If just one or two of those resulted in a goal, pundits on match of the day would be saying how great it is to put the ball in dangerous areas like they did all game long.

There were some shockers but when Young cuts inside and puts in a cross with his right foot it's really hard to defend against.

The problem was partly down to the fact that Fulham filled the box with nearly double the number of players throughout nearly the whole game until Man U finally increased the number they had in the box.

 

[Aoami]

So the other option is shoot from 30 yards and how for the best. 11 men behind the ball is hard to play against no matter how you try it. Look how many times Arsenal have tried to pass their way through it and failed.

 

[Scouse]

This tells me all I need to know about your understanding of this topic Football isn't baseball. I really doubt they are spending billions too

Lol ileks.

Football is a multi-billion pound business. Do you honestly think that they're not going to do whatever it takes to find out how to get pound-for-pound value?

Baseball may be a simpler model, but that's all it is - a simpler model.

Your notion that football is in some way an art that's immune from statistical analysis is sad romanticism at best.

So the "other option" ... yadda yadda yadda

And you've done the opposite to ileks have staggeringly simplified football to a mere two methods of play!

 

[Scouse]

Why the facepalm @Aoami?

Your post clearly suggests that there's either "through the middle" or "crosses into the box" - and if that's your opinion on the extent of tactics in football then you may make a good manager for United.

 

[caLLous]

Look at the 'pool fan getting all chirpy now his team is doing ok...

 

[ileks]

Lol ileks.

Football is a multi-billion pound business. Do you honestly think that they're not going to do whatever it takes to find out how to get pound-for-pound value?

Baseball may be a simpler model, but that's all it is - a simpler model.

Your notion that football is in some way an art that's immune from statistical analysis is sad romanticism at best.

No, I never said stats were useless. Obviously they tell you a lot about players - how much ground they cover, how quick they are, how many shots or interceptions they tend to make etc. This information can be utilised when valuing a player for example. Fine.

"Crosses are on average shit, so united shouldn't be crossing the ball" is clearly a fucking stupid statement.

 

[Scouse]

"Crosses are on average shit, so united shouldn't be crossing the ball" is clearly a fucking stupid statement.

Why? If the stats show that, on average, it's an incredibly inefficient way to bring goals, then that's what the stats show. And over time the stats will become better and help evolve the way the game is played.

The stats might show that putting the ball in through the middle a lot draws the defenders in, and a ball across the field to someone in the corner, followed by a cross from them might be much more effective.

Clearly wanging the ball out wide and constant crosses into the centre isn't effective. And the match is good evidence for that, as is the fact that the fulham defenders saying that it made it easy for them - because crosses are easy to defend...

....meh.

 

[Raven]

Crosses are fine if they are crossed into other players. They are not fine when they are hoofed in the general direction of the goal, regardless of player position. Far better to keep possession and try and draw defenders out.

 

[Aoami]

Why the facepalm @Aoami?

Your post clearly suggests that there's either "through the middle" or "crosses into the box" - and if that's your opinion on the extent of tactics in football then you may make a good manager for United.

When a team has 11 players in the box what other ways do you suggest getting through it oh tactical mastermind

 

[Scouse]

When a team has 11 players in the box what other ways do you suggest getting through it oh tactical mastermind

Have you ever played football? They don't line up in a static fucking wall, blocking all movement.

Just cross after cross after cross is one of the easiest things to defend if the box is full of defenders. The Fulham defenders themselves said so - and they were proved right - so even if you think that I'm full of shit you are disagreeing with the professionals too.

 

[eksdee]

It's easy:

 

[Aoami]

Have you ever played football? They don't line up in a static fucking wall, blocking all

They do if they are well drilled like Fulham were. They didn't come out of the box unless they won the ball and then a few of them broke. It should be easy to defend anything if you play like that. Also you didn't answer the question.

 

[Scouse]

They do if they are well drilled like Fulham were.

No. They really don't.

I didn't answer the question because your premise is retarded. But I see eksdee has given you a nice example.

But I won't hold it against you that you still disagree with the professionals at Fulham who loled all the way to a point and came out saying they were glad 'cause crosses are easy to defend...