Thatcher

[Wij]

He's left so I can't agree with him?

Granny: "I AM your father Wij."

Wij: "Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo.












I just cleaned that floor !"

 

[Wij]

Yes, there is a distinct anti 'lefty' presence on the boards.

Deal with it.

You mean Bodhi ?

Or Dillinja ? (if you wanna bring eOT into it)

They're all entitled to an opinion. Most of us are pretty middle-of-the-road imo though. No point in huffing about it.

 

[~Yuckfou~]

I know lets have a march through London and wreck some cars, just to show how much we love Thatcher.
Would that be better?
Never heard such pathetic bleeting in a long time.

For the record:
I'm Conservative, although not impressed with current leadership, Blair is a barefaced liar , "no more taxes" my arse.
Anti Union.
For the War.
Against subsidising single mothers.
Think persistant crooks should be locked up forever, 3 strikes and you're out.
Against letting "asylum seekers" in to the UK.
Against fox hunting, but support "some" of the other culling methods.
I eat Meat and love it.
I'm hetero, but no problem with whatever others want/are. (So is Mrs Yuck, bummer )

They are some of my views, live with it, or read my sig.

 

[Cyfr]

All i've heard about her from my dad/granddad is praise

 

[throdgrain]

Say what you like about Thatcher, the facts speak for themselves.

Yeah the facts are, during her stay in office we had 2 major recessions, both of which made me unemployed and fucked up my life.
We no longer have any self-sufficient coal production.
We had the Poll Tax, even now the Council Tax is absurdly higher than the rate system used to be.
Thatcher and her ilk are only interested in number one -themselves and other business people like them- and the rest of us can just get on with it. After all we're just serfs to them.
Oh well, she did beat up the Argies I suppose :/

 

[~Yuckfou~]

We no longer have any self-sufficient coal production.

If my memory serves me right this was the fault of the unions. It become so expensive to produce coal that it was cheaper to import it from the USA. Even though the mines were adjacent to the power stations and the USA isn't.
I may be wrong, dunno.

 

[throdgrain]

They imported it from Germany, but thats not the whole point is it. How much did we spend on unemployment benefit for the thousands of poor bastards who lost thier jobs through the actions of that government. How much did we spend on policing and other welfare for the communitys of towns and villages devastated by sudden huge unemployment? Theres people who have remained unemployed to this day, particularly in Wales where there is nothing else for those towns, just a growing heroin problem.

 

[Wazzerphuk]

You mean Bodhi ?

Or Dillinja ? (if you wanna bring eOT into it)

They're all entitled to an opinion. Most of us are pretty middle-of-the-road imo though. No point in huffing about it.

I did post with names in originally, but I thought better than that. No need to bring up their names by mention, it will no doubt only kick another argument off.

And if Bodhi disagreed with me I'd just laugh at his stupid hair/beard combo.

 

[Wij]

Aw - he's so cuuute tho

Anyway - if you missed my point. Wij == floating voter type apathy.

 

[Wazzerphuk]

Bodhi =

Wij = floater

 

[JBP|]

They imported it from Germany, but thats not the whole point is it. How much did we spend on unemployment benefit for the thousands of poor bastards who lost thier jobs through the actions of that government. How much did we spend on policing and other welfare for the communitys of towns and villages devastated by sudden huge unemployment? Theres people who have remained unemployed to this day, particularly in Wales where there is nothing else for those towns, just a growing heroin problem.

and how much are we paying now?

so much that the country is in debt to the tune of several billion £'s

 

[Tom]

They imported it from Germany, but thats not the whole point is it. How much did we spend on unemployment benefit for the thousands of poor bastards who lost thier jobs through the actions of that government. How much did we spend on policing and other welfare for the communitys of towns and villages devastated by sudden huge unemployment? Theres people who have remained unemployed to this day, particularly in Wales where there is nothing else for those towns, just a growing heroin problem.

I think the point is that before she took on the Unions (and she did leave it for a while), we had a situation where a large company would willingly employ 2 or more people for a job that didn't really exist, just to keep the unions sweet. The recession in the early 80's was in no way a result of the policies of the then government, and more a reflection on the mis-management of the economy by the previous labour government.

Thatcher also removed all of the massively expensive nationalised industry, and replaced it with privately funded businesses, which do a much better job than before. As far as I'm concerned, the miner's unions were responsible for the downfall of the mining industry. Rather than work in partnership with a government that was interested in the welfare of the country as a whole, they chose instead to try and prop up an industry that was inefficient, expensive, and unwilling to modernise.

I'm not right wing, or left wing, I have my own views and opinions on how this country should be run, but I'd much rather have had Thatcher in power then Michael Foot/Neil Kinnock/David Owen. She had more balls than the rest of them put together.

 

[Tom]

and how much are we paying now?

so much that the country is in debt to the tune of several billion £'s

We've been fortunate in that we've been relatively self-sufficient in power sources for the last century, however, those reserves are now starting to run low. The current energy crisis is more to do with an unwillingness by recent governments to invest in the country's long-term future.

 

[Mofo8]

We've been fortunate in that we've been relatively self-sufficient in power sources for the last century, however, those reserves are now starting to run low. The current energy crisis is more to do with an unwillingness by recent governments to invest in the country's long-term future.

This harks back to that "If" programme (and thread). The government won't invest in long term energy alternatives, cos the energy industry is privatised, and only regulated by the government. Let those companies (and shareholders) who profit at the moment look to the future... or take the whole lot back off them.

 

[maxi]

I know lets have a march through London and wreck some cars, just to show how much we love Thatcher.
Would that be better?
Never heard such pathetic bleeting in a long time.

For the record:
I'm Conservative, although not impressed with current leadership, Blair is a barefaced liar , "no more taxes" my arse.
Anti Union.
For the War.
Against subsidising single mothers.
Think persistant crooks should be locked up forever, 3 strikes and you're out.
Against letting "asylum seekers" in to the UK.
Against fox hunting, but support "some" of the other culling methods.
I eat Meat and love it.
I'm hetero, but no problem with whatever others want/are. (So is Mrs Yuck, bummer )

They are some of my views, live with it, or read my sig.

Well done. Everyone whos ever read The Sun or watched Kilroy can reel off a list of things they 'think' Very few of those people can explain why they think the way they do, even less can do so in a way that isn't half-assed, or stolen from someone else.

 

[~Yuckfou~]

Well done. Everyone whos ever read The Sun or watched Kilroy can reel off a list of things they 'think' Very few of those people can explain why they think the way they do, even less can do so in a way that isn't half-assed, or stolen from someone else.

FYI.
I don't read the Sun and have never seen Kilroy (I work).
You need to understand that people have views different from your own, as I understand that your views differ.
I owe you no explanation.

 

[Gumbo]

On the boom and bust cycle complaints, maybe the whole of the country isn't booming, but with the price of an average semi going up 100 quid a day, the housing market sure is.

Personal debt however is rocketing out of control. There has to come a time when the people who are borrowing to feed the growth in our economy simply cannot borrow anymore. This'll obviously slow the growth alarmingly, which could lead to a bit more unemployment than we are seeing at the moment. Especially with the service industrys like IT and call centres in a big decline at the moment in this country. So a bunch of the horribly debt ridden people start to lose their jobs and need to pay off their debts. It's ok, they can sell their over-inflated house to pay them off, that'll get them out of those nasty mortgage payments that have got so hard to bear since the Bank of England put the interest rates up in an attempt to pre-empt the debt crisis. But no, wait, that's what every other fucker is doing, and there's hardly a house in the street without a Flog, Cripple and Run Estate Agents sign outside. No-ones buying now, and the prices are in freefall, all of a sudden you can't cover the cost of the house let alone the car loan, the kitchen loan and the maxed out credit and store cards.

We may not have had a cycle under labour yet, but there is a bloody good chance that there is a hell of a bust coming around the corner, solid growth can not be built upon the numbers on peoples visa card statements.

Hold on to your hats chaps, 18 months or so and their could be a lot of people up the swanny.

Oh, and Thatcher? Yeah, I'd do her...

 

[maxi]

FYI.
I don't read the Sun and have never seen Kilroy (I work).
You need to understand that people have views different from your own, as I understand that your views differ.
I owe you no explanation.

Two conflicting statements.

(I didnt mean to imply you read the Sun or watched Kilroy(i work too))

Why did you make all those statements then? What was your point? Without explanation they are meaningless. I am aware his certainly isn't the place to add argument or background to each of those views, which leads me to ask..if you aren't going to back it up...why say it? It just seems more like a poor statement of thought. It also lends to the idea that maybe it is just a meaningless list, and that you have no real argument to back them up.

Sorry I just don't really see the point.

Additionally, saying things like 'deal with it' on issues of the Anti-Liberal posters, is a very dim thing to say. Akin to saying 'yes people on here are racist, deal with it'
deal with it in what way? I accept there are some people who think thhis way, but I'm not going to keep quiet when these people express their pigheaded ignorance. Why should I?

re·ac·tion·ar·y ( P ) Pronunciation Key (r-ksh-nr)
adj.
Characterized by reaction, especially opposition to progress or liberalism; extremely conservative

 

[~Yuckfou~]

Never once did I say deal with it, i said accept that they are my opinions.

You need to read the thread. Granny left because people differed from his opinion. I thought I would list my opions, I do not need to justify or explain my motives for them to you or anyone else, it's my business. You should stop trying to read something into it that is not there.

You are doing what the other so called "politicos" do on here. You think a democracy is a place where everyone agrees with you, and when others disagree you throw your rattle out of the pram.

I couldn't care what opinions or views you or others have, whether I agree with them or not. I am not ignorant and take exception to your remark. Now "deal with it".

 

[Jupitus]

Can we please keep this thread away from personal digs and talk about Maggie?

[Loveactually]

***You sexy Minx!!

[/Loveactually]



***does not necessarily imply any political view, in favour or otherwise

 

[mr.Blacky]

Thinking in wings (left & right) is sooooo 1990 I believe in ideas that work, they might be considered left or right as long as they work, and they do caus I am always right, ermm left ermm something.

 

[dysfunction]

I cant see why people get so worked up about others having different views...so what if this forum is full of lefties or righties or whatevers. You can still have a discussion. And running away screaming that you cant handle a different view from your own is just stupid.

I think Thatcher did some good but also did a lot of harm. But this applies to many politicians. I dont think anyone in government can get everything right all of the time. I think its physically impossible. I'm sure she thought she was doing the right thing most of the time even on the things that ended badly. I think she accomplished a lot of good and should be recognised for that.

And there is no way in hell I would vote for a party that would end up with Howard as PM!

 

[ECA]

Thatcher had good and bad policies. Deal with it.

Oh, blair is a populist **** who will do whatever it takes to get votes, ( as long as he doesnt have to admit personal fault ), howard talks weird qed he's a homo and nobody should vote for him and the liberal democrats are a bunch of arseholes.

Opinions like arseholes Everyone has one and some are covered in shit.

 

[Will]

Thatcher and her ilk are only interested in number one -themselves and other business people like them- and the rest of us can just get on with it. After all we're just serfs to them.

This pretty much sums up my view of Thatcher, and Regan's, policies. The trade unions may have been out of control. I'm slightly too young to know for sure. But things swang too far the other way. You can take the flexible labour market and shove it where the sun don't shine.

 

[yaruar]

We may not have had a cycle under labour yet, but there is a bloody good chance that there is a hell of a bust coming around the corner, solid growth can not be built upon the numbers on peoples visa card statements.

One of the reasons we've not had any major problems under labour is that Gordon Brown has been using every trick in the book to dampen down the economy to stabilise it.

+ we have a combination of low inflation and low unemployment at the moment which helps. We pretty much rode out the recent world downturn due to strong and forward thinking monetary policy.

However things don't look good for the future, house price inflation is insane and interest rates will go up. They are talking the situation down at the moment but in 12/18 months when interest rates are 1 or 2 percent higher and people are beginning to leave the fixed rate periods of their mortgages they are going to be royally screwed by their repayments. This could potentially bring down the whole economy with consumer spending dropping and people having to spend all their income on maintaining their mortgage payments.

 

[Deadmanwalking]

Oh, blair is a populist **** who will do whatever it takes to get votes, ( as long as he doesnt have to admit personal fault ),

You do know that is the underlying purpose of every politician?

To get votes.....

"Nah mate screw you i don't want your vote"

 

[xane]

Thinking in wings (left & right) is sooooo 1990 I believe in ideas that work, they might be considered left or right as long as they work, and they do caus I am always right, ermm left ermm something.

Agree with this view.

One reason I am so against established religion, and I include "anti-religions" in this as well, like humanism and determinism, is the insistance of its devotees to stick with doctrine even when the circumstances change.

The "old left" is very much like this, sticking with political and economic views dreamed up before the First World War. The 1950s and 1960s might have been great decades for Keynesian economics, but they failed Britain miserably in the 1970s and the global market simply would not accomodate them, how people can honestly feel that a financial and social agenda dating back at least 50 years is going to get us through the 21st century is beyond me.

(The "old right" has similar faults in its outdated thinking too).

I am basically a "utopian" socialist, I believe in the core values of the collective society before the values of the individual, but that doesn't mean I think we need nationalisation of everything. I think share ownership and other forms of collective responsibility meet socialist goals just as well, and are more adaptive for the free market global economy we live in (like it or not, it's here to stay).

Being a left wing socialist does not mean you should be anti-capitalist. In fact the fall of communism showed how authoritarian the extreme forms of socialism can become, to avoid that danger there has always got to be some element of individual freedom in any society and that (unfortunately) means embracing a consumerism ethic, stop thinking of the "nanny state" and let people get on with their lives.

One thing I admire Blair for is the way he finally chucked out the political luddites and moved his party forward, moving on from where Kinnock failed, it effectively rescued us from a one-party state by making the left electable again. He might have abandoned cherished principles, but in the long run that's would needs to happen, or we become a dinosaur of the world who can't keep up.

Oh, blair is a populist **** who will do whatever it takes to get votes,

This is precisely what a representational democracy is all about, getting the leaders to recognise popular opinion, not to drive us all underfoot with outdated and useless policies from another century. I'd rather a leader who U-turns occasionally than one who is willing to risk us all on his own personal ethics. Leaders should "lead" not "rule".

The post-war governments believed in nationalisation and public services, theu helped us rebuild after the war, it was right for the time, but by the 1970s a state-administered industry was bad for international trade.

Thatcher believed in the power of monetarism, and in the 1980s it was a crucial factor is getting Britain up to speed with the world economy from its pit of debt, but as a long term policy it was a disaster incurring too high a price.

Change happens, you have to adapt.

 

[throdgrain]

This is precisely what a representational democracy is all about, getting the leaders to recognise popular opinion, not to drive us all underfoot with outdated and useless policies from another century. I'd rather a leader who U-turns occasionally than one who is willing to risk us all on his own personal ethics. Leaders should "lead" not "rule".

Quite right. They'd be complaining if he didnt see the points of veiw of the people too :/

 

[PJS]

Lets see... Thatcher, Thatcher, the milk snatcher.

She based her whole monetary policy on what she read in some American book. WTG dipshit.

"If it's not hurting. It's not working.". What kind of clever sounding lame excuse is that for a clusterfuck?

Poll tax. "single worst decision ever made on domestic policy" - Lord Howe.

Everyone with a mortgage getting royally shafted by interest rates.

I especially liked the part where BT offered to wire up the whole country with fibre optic and the dim cow blocked it. We could all have been on Scandinavian type internet connections decades ago.

General Belgrano anyone? Lets sink a retreating ship in international waters for no other reason than Im a vindictive old bag.


Oh and manufacturing is key. Once your country just doesnt make anything any more you are in serious trouble no matter how rosy unemployment figures etc 'look'.

You may gather from this Im not a fan of Margaret. uke:

 

[mr.Blacky]

Oh and manufacturing is key. Once your country just doesnt make anything any more you are in serious trouble no matter how rosy unemployment figures etc 'look'.

I thought Thatcher was pro UK manufacturing (or is this sarcasm?)
As for "countries not making anything any more" look at the Netherlands, they don't make much, it is a service country. And it is doing better then the UK.

Just a question when should a politician lead and when should they follow the public? I would rather vote for a person that has strong ethics caus then I know what that person will do, I might not agree with that decision but atleast that person would take some hard necessary decisions.