terrorism.......

boppas

Fledgling Freddie
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Dunno about u lot, but tbh i never understood exactly what went on over in iraq/israel etc... aye i heard about the stories of what some might call "Inhuman" behavour, but it never really sunk in .. ofc when i seen the London attack on TV & the 9/11 words couldnt describe what i felt at the time tbh, but then i came across a website & tbh it 100% shocked me when i watched some of the vids, Tbh i was almost physically sick, how on earth can anyone do summit like what i seen & call it *war* ...this wasnt war i was watching.. it was torture/murder

I couldnt believe my eyes tbh at what i was watching. But it has certainly opened my eyes on what really is going on & how little we are told tbh :(

Being over there atm must be a living nightmare not knowing what the next day brings... & it be just as bad for the familys that have troops/aid workers etc working over there

Sick/Evil/inhuman is the only words i can think of that describe some of the content i seen some of the videos.

...........War? ...far form it imo :mad:
 

boppas

Fledgling Freddie
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bah tried to edit but 10 min timer....

just wanted to add:

Please dont ask for the link of the site, simply because there ARE children that use these forums (including my own) & i for one will no way post a link to such content & i hope no one else does as im sure many of you have already seen such content on other websites.
 

Hawkwind

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You think Iraq should have been left alone? Forget all the WMD crap, that was just the excuse used to finish they job and stop him financing terrorist organisations.

You should read up on some of the crap Saddam did before DS I. Mustard Gassing Kurd/Sunni villages.

The Israel/Palestinian struggle has been going on way too long. Israel has been allowed to get away with far too much in the form of state sanctioned terrorism. The UN does nothing as the US veto's any major agreement that's against Israels wishes. For a people who like to remind everyone of the attrocities the Germans carried in out during WW II they behave, sadly, much the same.
 

Tasslehoff

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Hawkwind said:
The Israel/Palestinian struggle has been going on way too long. Israel has been allowed to get away with far too much in the form of state sanctioned terrorism. The UN does nothing as the US veto's any major agreement that's against Israels wishes. For a people who like to remind everyone of the attrocities the Germans carried in out during WW II they behave, sadly, much the same.
Yeah, Palestina is just standing in the sideline getting gassed by the Israelians :eek7:

And all Palestinians just want peace, they are angels to be honest.

It's very civilized to put up posters, praising the ones who suicide-bomb too.

I totally agree with you there Hawkwind!
 

Zede

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or maybe this is just American Imperialism, oil has nothing to do with it, not a thing, honest. Dont you think nearly 1/3 of the worlds oil is worth a few london bombs, a few skyscrapers, few 1000 troop deaths, ofc it is !

You want death ? Try Philip Morris Inc, they peddle tabacco in 3rd world countries like its tap water - you want death ? go to there, aids & deaths from smoking make what saddam did ( and oh yes he is evil, I dont deny that) seem paltry.
 

Hawkwind

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Tasslehoff said:
Yeah, Palestina is just standing in the sideline getting gassed by the Israelians :eek7:

And all Palestinians just want peace, they are angels to be honest.

It's very civilized to put up posters, praising the ones who suicide-bomb too.

I totally agree with you there Hawkwind!
Was not the point. I dont support either side. I don't support the violence carried out by either side. One of the main reasons I am glad they toppled Hussain's regime was that he used to pay 10,000 USD to the families of suicide bombers who killed Israeli's.

I have seen the papers in Europe and believe me you do not read half of what goes on in Palestine. Children being shot on a weekly basis when throwing stones etc. All you ever see in European press is when a US/European gets shot. Then its big news. This is not the act of a compasionate enemy. They only enforce the cycle of hate.

The point I was making was that for a race of people that had such violence (holocaust) against them I would expect them not to do same. It's a shame they do. No, they don't round them up and gas them, but they bulldoze their homes and schools etc. Which is agianst the Geneva Convention. They reason they get away with it is because the US allows it.

Also, suggest you read your history. The state of Israel was taken taken by force. The land was previously designated as mostly Palestinian and Syrian. Zones drawn up by the British after WW II and agreed to by the UN.
 

Tasslehoff

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Hawkwind said:
Also, suggest you read your history. The state of Israel was taken taken by force. The land was previously designated as mostly Palestinian and Syrian. Zones drawn up by the British after WW II and agreed to by the UN.

You think the Palestinian and Syrian got it without using any force at all?`You can't bring in history, without bringing in alle the history. The Israelians and Palestinians have been fighting for the land for 3000-4000 years (I think, not sure about the actual number of years) It's not a war that started after the WW II. "I suggest you read your history.. blah blah" Go read some yourself.

And show me where they've been bulldozing the schools and houses.. On a weekly basis. You mean in the gaza strip? THey wanted to give them the houses, Palestinians wanted them to bulldoze them so that they could make more houses, that were less expensive. They didn't believe the civilization was "mature" enough to live in those houses, and they needed to build more houses on smaller space. But go ahead and twist the facts!


"I have seen the papers in Europe and believe me you do not read half of what goes on in Palestine. Children being shot on a weekly basis when throwing stones etc."

Where have you read that? Do you know anyone who's actually IN the war, or are you just reading something from some palestinian webbie and believing it?
 

Guinever

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I have to agree with Hawkwind, Tasse u don't get all the facts, what you see on t.v just scratches the surface of what real goes on.

Tbh violence is violence and should be stopped.

P.S The thing about Destroying houses and schools is true, and it's not for the palestines to live in, they are normally made as high end houses, thus the palestines can't offord :eek7: ( Not suprising about they destroyed their houses and belongings ) , Than they are simply asked to relocate.

I doubt their would be suicide bombers e.t.c if they were being treated fairly.
Human nature to hit back, if being hit.
 

Tiques

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Tasslehoff said:
You think the Palestinian and Syrian got it without using any force at all?`You can't bring in history, without bringing in alle the history. The Israelians and Palestinians have been fighting for the land for 3000-4000 years (I think, not sure about the actual number of years) It's not a war that started after the WW II. "I suggest you read your history.. blah blah" Go read some yourself.

And show me where they've been bulldozing the schools and houses.. On a weekly basis. You mean in the gaza strip? THey wanted to give them the houses, Palestinians wanted them to bulldoze them so that they could make more houses, that were less expensive. They didn't believe the civilization was "mature" enough to live in those houses, and they needed to build more houses on smaller space. But go ahead and twist the facts!


"I have seen the papers in Europe and believe me you do not read half of what goes on in Palestine. Children being shot on a weekly basis when throwing stones etc."

Where have you read that? Do you know anyone who's actually IN the war, or are you just reading something from some palestinian webbie and believing it?
Firstly, number of years, you should just remember it was jewish when Jesus was born and we live 2005 years after jesus birth, maybe "war" for 1600 years then, except the war probarly stopped atleast 1000 years ago and then resumed 50 years ago in the aftermath of WW2, saying they fought about it for so long is like saying WW1 and WW2 is the same, it was stopped and then they resumed.

The claim of Israel owning the country is also falsum, else you could say most of EU belong to germany, as they USED to own it (middle of WW2) or Denmark should have all the countries back that they ever owned during the time of the Vikings OR better yet, the Roman Empire should be restored, as they used to own almost everything.

Dont know if the statement "children being shot on a weekly basis" is true or not, but surdenly neither side is behaving like angels, but what is to be expected? The jews have turned into Nazis (Nazi is the name symbolising Socialist Nationalisme or however it is spelled, the way German politics was directed during WW2, do an objective analysis of the Isreal politics and you will see one of the biggest ironies in history) and the Palastinians (sp?) fell their land has taken away, and opposit the Jews, they have been fighting to get it back ever since it was taken away and dont just sit for a thousand years and more and then claim it back.

Agree, their methods of war agains the Israelic suppression is in the style usually defined as terrorism and often hit the innocent, and it should not be that way, but unfortunatly, what other options are presented to them?

EDIT: I know that Israel was under Roman control at Jesus birth but had individual control by the Jews under supervision of the Roman Empire.
 

Hawkwind

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Tiques said:
Dont know if the statement "children being shot on a weekly basis" is true or not, but surdenly neither side is behaving like angels, but what is to be expected? The jews have turned into Nazis (Nazi is the name symbolising Socialist Nationalisme or however it is spelled, the way German politics was directed during WW2, do an objective analysis of the Isreal politics and you will see one of the biggest ironies in history) and the Palastinians (sp?) fell their land has taken away, and opposit the Jews, they have been fighting to get it back ever since it was taken away and dont just sit for a thousand years and more and then claim it back.
The children being shot thing is not happening so much right now. But in the newspapers here in the Middle East it was a weekly event with pictures of the childrens funerals. I promise you, I am not exagerating one bit.

The period of history I was referring to was post WW II. As the UN has a 100 year rule on legal ownership of a country. Hence the Falklands being legally British :).
 

Hawkwind

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Tasslehoff said:
And show me where they've been bulldozing the schools and houses.. On a weekly basis. You mean in the gaza strip? But go ahead and twist the facts!
Not talking about the the recent demolishion of the illegal (term used by UN) Jewish settlements. Whenever, Israel went after a so an extremist or PLA official they would arrest the person they were after and then demolish their family homes.

Tasslehoff said:
"I have seen the papers in Europe and believe me you do not read half of what goes on in Palestine. Children being shot on a weekly basis when throwing stones etc."

Where have you read that? Do you know anyone who's actually IN the war, or are you just reading something from some palestinian webbie and believing it
Gulf News & Kaleej Times - both reputable papers here in the UAE.

Yes, I do know both Jews and Palestinians and have been to Israel more than 20 times in 10 years. My next door neighbour in Dubai is a Palistinian and FYI my Great Grandfather was a Rabi.

Basically the cycle of hate will continue as long as the people on both sides persist in their terrorist activities.
 

Tasslehoff

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Hawkwind said:
Basically the cycle of hate will continue as long as the people on both sides persist in their terrorist activities.
Ok, seems we're agreeing on the important things at least :)

I don't think what Israel is doing is right, just seems that it has become a trend to say "The palestinians are suffering, they are right to bomb the fuck out of Israel".

<Points at Guinever>

Firstly, number of years, you should just remember it was jewish when Jesus was born and we live 2005 years after jesus birth, maybe "war" for 1600 years then
Well, they could have been fighting for it before year 0 :)

Tbh violence is violence and should be stopped.
Did I anywhere say violence shouldn't be stopped?

You defended suicidebombers though:
I doubt their would be suicide bombers e.t.c if they were being treated fairly.
Human nature to hit back, if being hit.
 

bult

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Noone is saying that the suicide bombers are at right to blow innocent people up. But you can kind of understand why someone would become so desperate that they could sacrifice thier own lives. The Palistinians are a poor people they fight a war using stones and guerilla tactics versus the very rich Israelis who have tanks and such. Must be very frustrating.
 

yurithegreat

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boppas said:
Dunno about u lot, but tbh i never understood exactly what went on over in iraq/israel etc... aye i heard about the stories of what some might call "Inhuman" behavour, but it never really sunk in .. ofc when i seen the London attack on TV & the 9/11 words couldnt describe what i felt at the time tbh, but then i came across a website & tbh it 100% shocked me when i watched some of the vids, Tbh i was almost physically sick, how on earth can anyone do summit like what i seen & call it *war* ...this wasnt war i was watching.. it was torture/murder

I couldnt believe my eyes tbh at what i was watching. But it has certainly opened my eyes on what really is going on & how little we are told tbh :(

Being over there atm must be a living nightmare not knowing what the next day brings... & it be just as bad for the familys that have troops/aid workers etc working over there

Sick/Evil/inhuman is the only words i can think of that describe some of the content i seen some of the videos.

...........War? ...far form it imo :mad:
The major problem these days and in the past is the fact that every country rules it`s own religons
Thats the biggest problem this world has
Goverments are the ones controlling our religons in the sense that you could only believe in certain gods
You may think by now what i`m saying is a load of crap but let me finish

The UK until recent only allowed 2 religons catholics and non catholic
Therefore the british people are brain washed into believing one or the other
Much like Iraq, Iran, Saudi Arabia, Isreal Afghanistan who also have been forced into believing in a set number of gods
It`s like being brought up by your parents not to swear in public
Schools at one time used to be based on what religion you are and each school had it`s own religous education methods

Our own goverment is too blame for the religous wars
Religion imo is just a cover up to keeping the populations to a handable level
What else could we fight over should it not be for religion??
 

Zede

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yurithegreat said:
The major problem these days and in the past is the fact that every country rules it`s own religons
Thats the biggest problem this world has
Goverments are the ones controlling our religons in the sense that you could only believe in certain gods
You may think by now what i`m saying is a load of crap but let me finish

The UK until recent only allowed 2 religons catholics and non catholic
Therefore the british people are brain washed into believing one or the other
Much like Iraq, Iran, Saudi Arabia, Isreal Afghanistan who also have been forced into believing in a set number of gods
It`s like being brought up by your parents not to swear in public
Schools at one time used to be based on what religion you are and each school had it`s own religous education methods

Our own goverment is too blame for the religous wars
Religion imo is just a cover up to keeping the populations to a handable level
What else could we fight over should it not be for religion??
Note : Mary Queen of Scots got shafted, along with Catholic England - History ftw !
 

Darksword

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I dont disagree with the suicide bombers in this situation, they arent doing it to terrorise it. there doing it because in there eyes, in there situation, theres no difference between the wrong and the wrong. i mean a good line from a song (and yes call me a retard or whatver but i usually feel a song can capture a feeling or help describe something) is;

"i dont see the difference between the wrong and the wrong, soldiers emptying clips on little kids and there moms are just like a desperate mother fucker strapped to a bomb".

there in a situation in which they see no way out, your going to kill me, then im taking out as many of u as i can.

im not saying its a good thing, but yes, i suppose i am justifying it, because the world isnt all black and white, the line between the good and the bad CANT be seen, indeed its not there, they blend and it just depends on what side your sitting that things change. i mean, one mans terrorist is another mans freedom fighter.

what i dont get is, why? why kill for land, money, gas, power, material wealth. thats easy for me to say sat here in my house all cosy and shit, but seriously, why?

i cant think of one religious teaching that justifies killing people, not off the top of my head, but i can think of loads saying we shouldnt, saying we should turn the other cheek, hate mildly etc.

as a young person, when i think about it, this worlds fucked up, and yeh it can be fixed, it always can, but as a politically minded, concious person, i really struggle to see the point in it, humanities gone :(

sorry for the drama or wahtever, but that really is how i feel.
 

Job

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Shit happens, people die, we evolved by killing each other for resources, infact 99.999999% of the creatures on the planet do it every day.

Why stop now?

The whole basis of DAOC is about killing, most games are about beating an opponent, success is just another mans loss, you only get good exam results because others fail, you are only attractive because someone else is ugly.
You can only be rich by ensuring others are poor.

As some famous bloke said 'If war didn't happen ,we'd have to invent it'

Philosophy lesson is finished :p
 

noblok

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Darksword said:
your going to kill me, then im taking out as many of u as i can.
Why?

Who are 'they'? Are they everyone who is born and/or raised in a certain country? Everyone who has a certain convictio/religion? Perhaps everyone with a certain skin colour? Stop the 'us-them' thinking and judge every individual by his or her qualities. The fact that one Israeli soldier wants to kill you does not justify you killing a few innocent Israeli civilians. For all you know these civilians may even be opposed to the occupying of Gaza.

Also: wrong and right can be told apart. Don't start the one man's terrorist is another man's hero, because next tihing you know, you're defending the holocaust. If you ment to say that no man is good or bad over the whole line, you're right, because nobody can live a life of only good or bad deeds. Being generally good on the whole does not justify the bad deeds however.

Take the French Revolution as an example. The historic event as a whole has probably been a good thing for mankind, but this does not mean that the methods used by Robespierre and co are justified. The murdering performed by his regime is still wrong, even though in the end that revolution was a rather good thing.
 

Darksword

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noblok said:
Why?

Who are 'they'? Are they everyone who is born and/or raised in a certain country? Everyone who has a certain convictio/religion? Perhaps everyone with a certain skin colour? Stop the 'us-them' thinking and judge every individual by his or her qualities. The fact that one Israeli soldier wants to kill you does not justify you killing a few innocent Israeli civilians. For all you know these civilians may even be opposed to the occupying of Gaza.

Also: wrong and right can be told apart. Don't start the one man's terrorist is another man's hero, because next tihing you know, you're defending the holocaust. If you ment to say that no man is good or bad over the whole line, you're right, because nobody can live a life of only good or bad deeds. Being generally good on the whole does not justify the bad deeds however.

Take the French Revolution as an example. The historic event as a whole has probably been a good thing for mankind, but this does not mean that the methods used by Robespierre and co are justified. The murdering performed by his regime is still wrong, even though in the end that revolution was a rather good thing.

i was pointing out the mentallity of the suicide bombers in the israeli/palestine situation, which imo should be differed from the other suicide bombers such as the london bombings, 9/11 and the madrid bombings.
 

Marc

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Zede said:
or maybe this is just American Imperialism, oil has nothing to do with it, not a thing, honest. Dont you think nearly 1/3 of the worlds oil is worth a few london bombs, a few skyscrapers, few 1000 troop deaths, ofc it is !

You want death ? Try Philip Morris Inc, they peddle tabacco in 3rd world countries like its tap water - you want death ? go to there, aids & deaths from smoking make what saddam did ( and oh yes he is evil, I dont deny that) seem paltry.
Sorry, but you cant compare a tobacco producer to saddam. Smokers can choose wether to smoke, the people that saddam killed didnt have a choice
 

noblok

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Darksword said:
i was pointing out the mentallity of the suicide bombers in the israeli/palestine situation, which imo should be differed from the other suicide bombers such as the london bombings, 9/11 and the madrid bombings.
So was I, let me rephrase.

Situation:
- Israeli soldier wants to kill Palestinian man (assumption).
- Palestinian man wants to blow himself up in a bus filled with Israelians, before the Israeli soldiers get him.

Your opinion (as far as I understood):
- This is justified, because the people on the bus were 'one of them'.

My opinion:
- This is wrong, because those people had nothing/little to do with the whole situation. These people should be judged by who they are, rather than where they live.
- Not only does he kill inocent people, he also does this based upon the _assumption_ that Israeli soldiers want to kill him. I am not saying that they don't kill innocent Palestinian civilians, because mistakes are bound to happen in a war, but I'm relatively sure that it isn't their intention.
 

Tasslehoff

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noblok said:
So was I, let me rephrase.

Situation:
- Israeli soldier wants to kill Palestinian man (assumption).
- Palestinian man wants to blow himself up in a bus filled with Israelians, before the Israeli soldiers get him.

Your opinion (as far as I understood):
- This is justified, because the people on the bus were 'one of them'.

My opinion:
- This is wrong, because those people had nothing/little to do with the whole situation. These people should be judged by who they are, rather than where they live.
- Not only does he kill inocent people, he also does this based upon the _assumption_ that Israeli soldiers want to kill him. I am not saying that they don't kill innocent Palestinian civilians, because mistakes are bound to happen in a war, but I'm relatively sure that it isn't their intention.
Agreeing :)

He said what I wanted to say, but weren't able to say in :)


EDIT:

I don't see the difference Darksword, I really don't.

They blew up innocent people in Madrid, US and London and the other ones blow up innocent people in Israel.

But of course, Madrid, US and London are "sophisticated countries", so that's going over the line? :p
 

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