Rant terror pair to stay

[adams901]

Dunno if this has been posted on here yet, but it makes my piss boil.

Terror pair to stay in Britain as judge vetoes deportation over safety risk | News

Immigration judge Mr Justice Mitting said that although both men were a threat to national security they should not be deported to Pakistan because of the risk that they would be tortured.

Of course the Human Rights brigade will argue they have rights to, but they chose the life style of hurting/plotting to hurt others and in my opinion deserve all they get.

This country really is a joke.

 

[nath]

This country really is a joke.

No it's fucking not. Sorry but *THAT* makes my piss boil. We don't torture people, we don't send people knowing they'll likely be tortured, go and watch a Charles Bronson movie if you fancy seeing some revenge. You do not make exceptions to these things.

 

[throdgrain]

I would Nath. I'd send 'em back.

After all Pakistan is meant to be a great place, look at all the people living here (with British nationality of couse) who tell you so.

 

[nath]

I would Nath. I'd send 'em back.

I'm shocked .

Anyway, currently they're suspects so innocent until proven guilty. Additionally, human rights are a good thing, things like this and the lack of a death penalty make me proud to be British.

 

[adams901]

I'm sorry but this country *IS* a joke.

We are constantly bending over backwards to accommodate every fucker out there, even scum like this.

While our armed forces are out there hunting people like this, our law system is wrapping them in cotton wool and worrying about their safety.

FUCK their safety, what about the safety of the people in this country, scum like this deserve to be tortured, they chose their life style, let them live with it.

That article clearly states the judges agrees they did what they did, and they are a threat.

 

[nath]

We don't deport people when there's a good chance they'll be tortured where they're going.

No exceptions. It's a good rule.

 

[Ch3tan]

I think had they actually been found guilty of their crimes, and prosecuted for them, then it would have been a different story. As it is, they are suspects as nath has pointed out.

Think it's right we take the high ground here, we should not be deporting people knowing it means harm being caused to them. Though it does annoy me that they are still in the country, you have to balance that out with sticking to moral differences that separate us from nations that breed terrorists in the first place.

 

[adams901]

oh well lets look on the bright side.

At least our armed forces will no longer be in danger from these types of people, specially with the message we are sending "come to England and we will protect you".

 

[Ch3tan]

I'm sorry but this country *IS* a joke.

We are constantly bending over backwards to accommodate every fucker out there, even scum like this.

While our armed forces are out there hunting people like this, our law system is wrapping them in cotton wool and worrying about their safety.

FUCK their safety, what about the safety of the people in this country, scum like this deserve to be tortured, they chose their life style, let them live with it.

That article clearly states the judges agrees they did what they did, and they are a threat.

Read the article again, it also states that the police and CPS did not prosecute due to a lack of evidence.

As a developed nation we cannot condemn those who abuse human rights, torture and use and fund terrorism if we turn a blind eye to those things when it is convenient. This is the cost we pay for living in a more civilised society.

Oh and adams, tone down the emotion and think about this with a little more impartiality.

 

[Zenith]

I find it scary that just because they are suspects, the overgeneralizing trait in you point them out to be terrorist, ASAP, with no trace of critical thought required. Even though quite the opposite have been pointed out just under your nose

 

[adams901]

um quite the opposite hasn't been pointed out.

The linked news piece clearly states the Judge has no doubt they were key figures in the plot to cause death, the judge also agrees they were and STILL are a threat to this country.

The judge said he was satisfied that Naseer was an “al Qaeda operative” who had been plotting with Khan and other men arrested during the raids to kill large numbers of people in Britain.

I hardly call that overgeneralizing on my part.

 

[Ch3tan]

Did you stop reading the article at that point? Yes they are a potential threat, but they were never charged, and the plot was never proved.

 

[adams901]

but the rest of 'innocent' bunch all decided to leave the country after they found out about their lucky escape, or was it a case of them all leaving because they could no longer plot and plan their jihad in the comfort of the UK.

My rant here is a senior Judge has clearly stated he agrees they are a threat to national security, they were planning to cause death in the country and they are members of al Qaeda. Yet in the same breath decided he wanted to protect them, how about putting the national security of the country first?

This is sending the wrong message to other terrorists, and is showing we are a push over and the place to come.

Its hard to tone down emotion when you have people who are close to you that are in the armed forces overseas, and you know people who were effected by these 'innocent' people in the last lot of terror attacks.

 

[ECA]

Rule of law and all that.

No conviction, no deportation.

 

[Jupitus]

Did you stop reading the article at that point? Yes they are a potential threat, but they were never charged, and the plot was never proved.

The case got fucked up because some police chief was photoed getting out of his car with the documents on show - they had to move early on them before collecting the evidence they needed for a conviction.

Oh happy days.

BTW - I agree that they shouldn't be deported, but it does still make my blood boil ...

Jupitus, the Fence Sitter

 

[ECA]

Its hard to tone down emotion when you have people who are close to you that are in the armed forces overseas, and you know people who were effected by these 'innocent' people in the last lot of terror attacks.

I respect that - but they are fighting to uphold our right to democracy and the rule of law.
They are not fighting so we can do whatever the fuck we want when we don't like someone - that's what al qaeda and the taliban do - not us.

 

[Ch3tan]

but the rest of 'innocent' bunch all decided to leave the country after they found out about their lucky escape, or was it a case of them all leaving because they could no longer plot and plan their jihad in the comfort of the UK.

My rant here is a senior Judge has clearly stated he agrees they are a threat to national security, they were planning to cause death in the country and they are members of al Qaeda. Yet in the same breath decided he wanted to protect them, how about putting the national security of the country first?

This is sending the wrong message to other terrorists, and is showing we are a push over and the place to come.

Its hard to tone down emotion when you have people who are close to you that are in the armed forces overseas, and you know people who were effected by these 'innocent' people in the last lot of terror attacks.

No it isn't, we live in a society were you are innocent until proven guilty. A judge agreeing with the reasons for their arrest is not proof of their guilt.
We also live in a society where human life, good or bad has value. The only message we are sending is, you are wrong about us. If you treat a terrorist as they would treat you then you are justifying their reasons for hate in the first place.

 

[Tom]

I'm shocked .

Anyway, currently they're suspects so innocent unless proven guilty. Additionally, human rights are a good thing, things like this and the lack of a death penalty make me proud to be British.

Fixed

 

[ECA]

No it's fucking not. Sorry but *THAT* makes my piss boil. We don't torture people, we don't send people knowing they'll likely be tortured, go and watch a Charles Bronson movie if you fancy seeing some revenge. You do not make exceptions to these things.

Charles Bronson is pretty awesome.

I havn't seen Death Wish for ages - any other recommendations for Bronson films that were stand outs?

 

[Tom]

but the rest of 'innocent' bunch all decided to leave the country after they found out about their lucky escape, or was it a case of them all leaving because they could no longer plot and plan their jihad in the comfort of the UK.

Or maybe they thought there would be people like you, who would be only too quick to assume they were guilty because the gubbermint said so?

I could hardly blame them.

 

[nath]

Fixed

Pedant .


ECA, I've absolutely no idea. Last time I saw a Bronson revenge flick I found it thoroughly unsatisfying. Taken is far better in that regard .

 

[adams901]

Or maybe they thought there would be people like you, who would be only too quick to assume they were guilty because the gubbermint said so?

I could hardly blame them.

Well you can believe that if you like, but I suspect that my reason is probally closer to the truth.

If they were innocent and to my knowledge unnamed, why would they leave? unless they were doing things they didnt want the security services to see.

Of course I created this thread with the full knowlegde that people like you defend people like that .

I have said all I have to say on the subject really. My views remain as they are, and this will just turn into a battle of words, and clever ways to make people feel better about themselves.

 

[ECA]

I've seen Taken and also the new Mel Gibson Edge of Darkness.

Both decent.

 

[Ch3tan]

Well you can believe that if you like, but I suspect that my reason is probally closer to the truth.

If they were innocent and to my knowledge unnamed, why would they leave? unless they were doing things they didnt want the security services to see.

Of course I created this thread with the full knowlegde that people like you defend people like that .

I have said all I have to say on the subject really. My views remain as they are, and this will just turn into a battle of words, and clever ways to make people feel better about themselves.

People like who? Are you really trying to pigeon hole all of us just because we don't agree with your argument -I think you'll find nath, Tom, ECA and I all have quite different political views. I really think you need to check more on this story and not just get angry because of one article. It's not a battle of words, I just think it's sad that you are letting emotion override all common sense on this matter, and that you really think this country should condone torture.

 

[Ch3tan]

I've seen Taken and also the new Mel Gibson Edge of Darkness.

Both decent.

I liked Edge of Darkness, but it went on a bit, Gibson and Winstone were both very good in it. Loved the bit with the senator "I'm a United States Senator!" "By whose standards?" BANG

 

[Tom]

Well you can believe that if you like, but I suspect that my reason is probally closer to the truth.

Your suspicions are irrelevant. Thank God.

If they were innocent and to my knowledge unnamed, why would they leave? unless they were doing things they didnt want the security services to see.

I do lots of things that I don't want the government to see, and most of them aren't illegal.

Of course I created this thread with the full knowlegde that people like you defend people like that .

People like me who are rational, intelligent, and wise enough to know that a man who has not been convicted of any crime must be treated fairly and equally?

People like that...well I'm not going to voice my suspicions on precisely what that comment might mean.

I have said all I have to say on the subject really. My views remain as they are, and this will just turn into a battle of words, and clever ways to make people feel better about themselves.

Actually your words have made me feel much better about myself, so thanks.

 

[adams901]

People like who? Are you really trying to pigeon hole all of us just because we don't agree with your argument -I think you'll find nath, Tom, ECA and I all have quite different political views. I really think you need to check more on this story and not just get angry because of one article. It's not a battle of words, I just think it's sad that you are letting emotion override all common sense on this matter, and that you really think this country should condone torture.

lol no i'm not trying to pigeon hole anyone, I simply replied to his post in the same manner he replied to mine.. guess I took the bait.

I knew full well my views would probally be in the minority on this board, hell I have been here long enough. I am not attacking anyone or grouping anyone into a certain catagory because of what they believe, unlike what seems to have happened with me.

I'm not the one that started with the personal insults.

 

[Ch3tan]

Of course I created this thread with the full knowlegde that people like you defend people like that .

Reading this again has actually made me quite angry. What a stupid fucking thing to say.

 

[Ch3tan]

lol no i'm not trying to pigeon hole anyone, I simply replied to his post in the same manner he replied to mine.. guess I took the bait.

I knew full well my views would probally be in the minority on this board, hell I have been here long enough. I am not attacking anyone or grouping anyone into a certain catagory because of what they believe, unlike what seems to have happened with me.

No one's attacking you. This is a forum, where people voice their opinions. You voiced yours and seem to think everyone should subscribe to it.

 

[adams901]

Reading into Toms posts.

"people like you"

As if i'm in a special kind of group that... make of it what you will.

Then he goes on to imply I am not rational or intelligent.

Would you please show me where I have stated I think everyone should subscribe to my views? I have simply stated what I feel, and have replied to peoples posts with reasons as to why I feel it.