Teaching Assistants going to be axed... ?!

[soze]

middle school I went to a girl got pregnent in her final year. as far as I can remember she was absolutely mortified and eventually left. I wonder what changed.

Having a kid and playing the benefits game is now a socially acceptable career option.

 

[Gwadien]

Having a kid and playing the benefits game is now a socially acceptable career option.

Its pretty safe too.

 

[Chilly]

Having a kid and playing the benefits game is now a socially acceptable career option.

To whom? Not me and I don't know anyone to who it is acceptable.

 

[Raven]

That because you aren't a poor, hard done by chav.

 

[soze]

To whom? Not me and I don't know anyone to who it is acceptable.

I would not do it and I would disown my children if they did it. But if you are the child of a benefit sponger and you know you either work 40+ hours a week and pay for your own bills ect and be left with very little (except pride). Or you get pregnant get a free flat the majority of your bills covered and get decent spending money. I can understand why people are doing it but I never could myself.

 

[Scouse]

Having a kid and playing the benefits game is now a socially acceptable career option.

If you've got no intellect and shit parents - which effectively means that you've no academic possibilities, you've probably not been taught how to eat correctly and are therefore probably ugly all day, you live in a shit area and have shit friends and you have, literally, no hope - then it is indeed a reasonably sensible choice.

Our society isn't set up to help children like this. The ones who desparately need it most. In fact we fucking hate them. Hate them.

I don't blame them for getting up the duff and sticking two fingers up at the world and getting themselve a house. One thing's sure as shit true - they'd never be able to afford to buy one because they're not equipped to hold down the menial, shame-inducing, low-paid scrap-jobs that the rest society expects them to pick up and take eagerly, without a word of complaint, whilst we go about our lives ignoring them. Hopefully never even meeting them.

Yep. I think it's a perfectly acceptable career option for someone who's life's gonna be shit anyway. And don't tell me that it's all their own fault when they've probably effectively been fucked since birth - and none of us care.


Edit: Didn't see your above post soze. But to add:

(except pride)

Pride that exists only in your own mind whilst everyone laughs at you

 

[MYstIC G]

has to put up with

Chooses to put up with Urgat

If nothing is ever done to improve the situation overall how does that ever help the next generation of kids, or the one after.

I'm not saying she should stick her neck out but if she doesn't want to lie then she should simply direct Ofstead to speak to someone else.

 

[Raven]

...they're not equipped to hold down the menial, shame-inducing, low-paid scrap-jobs that the rest society expects them to pick up and take eagerly, without a word of complaint...

Someone has to do those jobs, why not the unskilled and uneducated? You aren't suggesting everyone should be able to do any job they like, regardless of skills are you?

Why they are unskilled and uneducated is a different matter but again, if you could somehow give everyone the exact same education and skills then you would still need people to do the shit jobs.

 

[Scouse]

Someone has to do those jobs, why not the unskilled and uneducated?

Cherry picking from my argument there Raven. Do you actually disagree with that reality in its entirety? Taken as a whole, without taking individual elements out of the context that they're in, that is a sound argument IMO.


But I'll humour you either way:
Fine. Pay them a decent non-menial living wage that allows them to be full members of society and gives their children a tiny sliver of a chance of being able to escape their parent's living hell.

Or even a wage commensurate with the fact that nobody in their right minds would choose to do those jobs, eh?


Nah. We'll pay them shit. Exploit them. Treat them effectively like slaves and pour scorn on them for it, try to avoid them, laugh at them and genuinely hate them - and slap them bitches down when they have the temerity to point out that it's a shit life and it's not their fault.

Generations of misery. And we don't give a fuck. Just like slavers.

 

[Tom]

I wouldn't describe menial labour as a "living hell", in fact I think to do so is rather patronising Scouse. I see lots of people working in supermarkets, they're not on much money but most of them make the best of it and have fun with their colleagues.

One of the reasons I like John Lewis and Waitrose so much is that their staff don't try and bullshit me with special offers, and they're always genuinely happy to help. This is also why I don't go in Asda.

 

[soze]

That is the difference though. I would rather work for everything and have done crap work rather than signing on. It is how I have been raised. But these kids are raised thinking it is fine living with your hand out so they do it. And like Scouse said the people who work 50 hours a week to rent a crap bedsit and live on value noodles are considered the muppets.

 

[rynnor]

And like Scouse said the people who work 50 hours a week to rent a crap bedsit and live on value noodles are considered the muppets.

If they have a plan that requires them to live like this for a while before they can get something better fair play to them.

If this is the best they can reasonably hope for then they might as well sign on.

Part of the problem is without working family kids may genuinely have no idea what they could do.

If you dont aspire to something you will certainly never get anywhere.

If they see dole as their only realistic option then the Govt has failed them.

 

[Scouse]

successive Governments have failed all of us

Evidence.

 

[Raven]

I don't know what you actually want Scouse, a higher minimum wage? How large? All jobs paying the same regardless of skill requirements? All jobs available to everyone regardless of training or skills? Abolition of money?

You think a toilet cleaner should get paid 25k+ ? Where would the money come from to pay that?

If the minimum wage was (lets say) 25k you can guarantee that people on 25k would want more because goods would go up in price and you would end up with rampant inflation, or devaluation of money.

Like I said, someone has to do the shitty untrained jobs, regardless of wages.

 

[Scouse]

It's a consequence of the economic system Raven. Demonising a certain type of human because they don't work well in our current system is abhorrent and immoral (and totally natural and understandable) in my view.

We need new economics.

 

[Raven]

Nobody here is. People are commenting on those that refuse to work full stop, for no reason other than they are lazy.

I have every respect for those that do a shitty job to put food on the table.

 

[Scouse]

People are commenting on those that refuse to work full stop, for no reason other than they are lazy.

I've never met anyone who meets that description.

In fact, I think it's a blatant untruth that "society" has come to believe is, in fact, reality. Rather than bullshit.

 

[rynnor]

I've never met anyone who meets that description.

In fact, I think it's a blatant untruth that "society" has come to believe is, in fact, reality. Rather than bullshit.

I agree - I think there are far more embittered souls who have given up on the hope of getting a decent job.

Plus there are various places around the country where there really is very little unskilled work available.

What do you do when your churning out too many kids who lack the skills to get the jobs available?

 

[soze]

While I believe the Media make it out to be more widespread there are people who have decided to never work again. I know 3 of them from the estate I grew up on. One of them claims he is his dads full time care giver when he live in a different house. Another has got him self registered disabled because he weighs 22 stone and he can not take the way people judge him. I have no idea how many people do it but it is a fact that there are people who have no intention of ever seeking employment.

And don't get me started on the recently graduated students who refuse to take an entry level job and think they are owed a £50k plus job right out of University.

 

[Scouse]

there are people who have no intention of ever seeking employment + students who refuse to take an entry level job

Basically, people who refuse to work for cucumber.

View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-dMoK48QGL8


Seems to me that we have an economic system that goes against our biology

 

[rynnor]

And don't get me started on the recently graduated students who refuse to take an entry level job

Why would any intelligent person spend years and a large sum of money getting a degree and then come out and get some entry level job - that makes no sense.

If you want to resent them for studying because you didn't thats up to you I guess but pure economic neccesity says they cant look for a basic job unless they want to have wasted tens of thousands and 3-4 years of lost income.

 

[Tom]

And don't get me started on the recently graduated students who refuse to take an entry level job and think they are owed a £50k plus job right out of University.

I doubt such people exist.

 

[Kryten]

Those people do exist, have encountered a fair, both when I was working in student accommodation and at secondary education. The former was funny though, law students are seven shades of moronic and think they know the laws and rights of every human on the planet. God help you if you tried to tell them they're losing half their despite because their carpet was magically wrecked between the time they moved in and the time they moved out. There's a law against that!
An "acquaintance" of mine had just come out the other end of 5 years in university (can't remember what she was studying) and has spent the last few months arguing with the job center that she is above shopwork and can see no reason why she should belittle herself. Even more than being in a job center in the first place, mind...

 

[Raven]

Graduates are amusing. They think a 2.2 in some useless subject is all you need to be set up for life.

 

[soze]

Why would any intelligent person spend years and a large sum of money getting a degree and then come out and get some entry level job - that makes no sense.

If you want to resent them for studying because you didn't thats up to you I guess but pure economic neccesity says they cant look for a basic job unless they want to have wasted tens of thousands and 3-4 years of lost income.

Because it is better than spending a year or more signing on while you wait for this Unicorn job to show up. If you take a look and find a company you like the look of you could take a job on the bottom rung then show then how good you are and work your way up. Just because you have spent 4 years in Education does not mean you are entitled to a job and a salary that is not there.

 

[rynnor]

If you take a look and find a company you like the look of you could take a job on the bottom rung then show then how good you are and work your way up.

Sadly companies will pay you as little as they can get away with so this is not very likely. It happens but there are far more people stuck in crap jobs.

As a taxpayer everyone should want graduates to get high paying job or else our investment is wasted.

Also people in grunt jobs pay little or no tax anyway - if a graduate spends a year on the dole to get a high paying job they will repay the cost of that year in less than a year and then be a net benefit to the nations taxes.

 

[Raven]

Only if it is a rewarding job to society. I don't much want my tax money paying for someone to do well in marketing.

Pointless stuff like marketing, Business studies (Utterly useless without CIMA or equivalent which is more than enough in itself) Sociology and that crap should be zero funded by the tax payer.
The money wasted on useless degrees should be invested into proper, meaningful education, engineering, finance related, computer science, classic sciences etc.
That would benefit the econemy as a whole a metric fuckton more because it would draw investment, knowing all there is to know about what attracts drones to products is a useless thing to know, yet people spend 3 years learning about it.

 

[soze]

I agree with that. Study to be a doctor or a teacher and you should get a free ride through University. Media studies should not get a penny of my money.

 

[DaGaffer]

I doubt such people exist.

Oooh, I wouldn't be too sure about that. I've met quite a few graduates with an over-active sense of entitlement.

Only if it is a rewarding job to society. I don't much want my tax money paying for someone to do well in marketing.

Pointless stuff like marketing, Business studies (Utterly useless without CIMA or equivalent which is more than enough in itself) Sociology and that crap should be zero funded by the tax payer.
The money wasted on useless degrees should be invested into proper, meaningful education, engineering, finance related, computer science, classic sciences etc.
That would benefit the econemy as a whole a metric fuckton more because it would draw investment, knowing all there is to know about what attracts drones to products is a useless thing to know, yet people spend 3 years learning about it.

How is Business Studies "pointless"? Its a highly vocational course with more employability than any other course in the top ten degree subjects (including law, where there are three graduates for every available job) Just because you think marketing is a pile of arse (and believe me, you're utterly wrong) doesn't mean it isn't a valid career choice, and there's a lot of work in it, especially in online, and especially if you're young because there are more entry-level opportunities. And by the way, most Business studies courses include at least two years of finance, and Accountancy degrees are usually thrown into the "business" spectrum (about 1 in 5 business degrees is in accountancy).

Yes, there are subjects in the top ten degrees that are over-subscribed and under-relevant, but Biosciences, Nursing and Computer Science (as well as business) are all in the top ten. The only group of subjects where there's a real "problem" are the engineering subjects, but in post-industrial Britain maybe that just reflects the employment realities? (I don't actually think that's true by the way, but its certainly a harder road than finance or computing).

 

[Gumbo]

Scouse! You always always have a similar argument in these threads but you never never put forward this magical alternative economy which you espouse. you always say that all current models are broken, I'm open minded to hear of a new idea though. This is not trying to bait you, I really am genuinely interested to hear and debate it, perhaps start another thread to go into this alternative idea in detail?

To go back a few posts, here's a genuine experience I am privy to and despair of.

My other half, she of the boobies to my left, has twin boys who are 23 now. One of them has just had a baby with a girl who just turned 19 I think. He works hard for a living, he's gone through a car mechanics apprenticeship and is doing alright, she was halfway through a college course, some kind of Physical Education thing, which she may go back to, it's not ruled out. Anyway...

Of her class at school, about half girls, so say around 15 girls, she was the last to get pregnant, and the only one currently living with the father of her child. This is from Norwich too, where the shittiest part of the city makes the nicest parts of many UK cities look like a slum. They knew what they were doing. They made the choice to have a child so that they could get a flat, an income, and pursue that as a career. They are open about that, they talked to one another through school about that being their goal. It sounds like a Daily Mail story, but this is first hand information and it sickens me in a number of ways. It's a waste of them, there must be some bright ones there, why no ambition? Those of us who work have to support them for what useful reason? What future do the kids have when brought up by these people? How do we solve this without swinging wildly right wing. Say no flat for you until you can afford the child, remove the child to a home which deserves it but can't have it, and enforce birth control going forward? That's a devils advocate view btw..