Teaching Assistants going to be axed... ?!

[Mabs]

really ?

http://www.eteachblog.com/teaching-assistants-face-the-axe/

i wish Gove would fall under a bus

 

[old.Tohtori]

Seems like a legit move.

 

[Mabs]

Seems like a legit move.

main reason they use TAs is cos they cant afford teachers, so how is removing the cheaper option going to help ?

so you can go from 1 teacher, 1 or 2 TAs .... to 1 teacher ? cos if you cant afford 1 TA you sure as hell cant afford a teacher

and this improves it how ?

 

[Raven]

What!? You mean teachers will have to do the job they are paid for?

Teaching assistants should not be used as teachers (the clue is in the name) if schools are doing that then it is a different matter entirely. More a case of schools employing non-qualified teachers.

 

[old.Tohtori]

RAven answered it really Mabs. I get the idea behind teacher assistants, which is good, but they should use trainees/students for that and leave the teaching to qualified people.

 

[Mabs]

yea in an ideal world, isnt everything lovely

they cant afford teachers, government etc is stripping money out of it, so its bad atm, this will make it worse

sure if they decide to put 100 billion into schools, and employ more teachers, cool... they arent going to, and we currently have, IIRC, the worst Pupil-teacher ratio in Europe.. and this is going to get worse


tell me again how this is a "good" thing ?

 

[Mabs]

RAven answered it really Mabs. I get the idea behind teacher assistants, which is good, but they should use trainees/students for that and leave the teaching to qualified people.

oh and a lot of TAs are "qualified" in various ways

and you know what the best bit is ? you ready for this ...

A lot of TA jobs go to TEACHERS, why ? cos there ARENT ANY TEACHING JOBS AVAILABLE

so, yea :x

 

[Kryten]

I love how many people here haven't got a fucking clue what a TA is or does. They are vital to modern education. Removing them would require a huge systemic shake up which isn't being accounted for.

"There were no TA's when I was at school!"

No, there wasn't for me either. But in those days, students that didn't fit a template of normality where shoved in "special classes" or even special schools for the more severe and there were no provisions for higher funds paid to the school by government for those students. Modern education is usually all about inclusion - which itself is a buzzword used to "hide" the fact that schools get money per pupil and more so for those with disabilities, mental or physical. Inclusion in many cases can indeed be good as it helps integrate the able with the less so, and doing so means classes in general *require* more than a single teacher.

Gove is a fucking muppet.

 

[Job]

Same for the wife..she runs the pastoral dept in a girls school..the teachers just started sending every annoying kid there and in no time she was running a full time multi age class of the worst kids..then she got moaned at because their overall grades were below average...shes documented everything..its a fuckin shambles

 

[cog]

I don't know what kind of teaching assistants everyone else seems to have met, but having worked in Primary Education for the last 4 years, I've yet to meet one without at least some level of qualification in education. TA's are deployed generally to promote inclusion and to perform interventions (ie. pushing lower achievers in targeted small group work), which are one of the main ways most schools are able to meet the targets that are set by Mr Gove in the first place. There are fewer and fewer special schools and more and more children in mainstream schools with problems that would have merited special education in the past, and guess what? In a class of 30 they demand a lot of attention and don't make a lot of progress without significant support, in a lot of cases 1:1. Guess who schools use for 1:1 support? I'm currently doing some training in a National Teaching School once a week, and even there where they can basically pick and choose children and have perfect behaviour with a lovely catchment area, they still focus on additional adults as an important part of learning because of the additional support and learning opportunities that they can provide. My current school is in one of the most deprived areas of our authority, and we have to deal with a huge range of external issues as well as the fact that children come in significantly below national average levels. One of the most effective ways of getting them to make accelerated progress is directed TA support and intervention.

I think you could probably ask any teacher in the country and find out how effective TAs are at what they do. The view that people seem to have of them as some sort of unqualified 'mum's army' is insulting. I'm sure there are cases where TA's are used to cover classes (in my current school this is extremely rare and only happens when we have some sort of catastrophe) but even then we have an entire policy dedicated to ensuring that *anyone* who covers a class is prepared by the class teacher. And even in that case, TA cover is performed by Higher-Level teaching assistants who are actually qualified by their training and role to take a whole class. Schools that are doing that kind of thing on a regular basis probably have a lot more problems besides TAs covering classes.

The issue around non-qualified teachers is even more ridiculous. Promoting the idea that people with absolutely no experience of education can take responsibility for 30 children because they are "great linguists, computer scientists and other specialists".

 

[Gwadien]

Teaching Assistants are underpaid and abused, their jobs shouldn't be taken from them, they should be reviewed and treated like a human being.

Where I worked last year, there was a shit load of TAs working there, I spoke to 3-4 of them and they all had skills (English, Maths, Science etc) that were not used, instead they were put into class rooms as an extra body, when it wasn't needed.

Also those with skills working with SEN were also not used at all, it's not exactly the teachers fault anyway, because they were blissfully unaware of the specialist skills that the TA's had when they were originally recruited.

I also was classed as a 'teaching assistant' for the two days a week, and even the kids picked up on how much better it was for them, because they had more time with the teacher, rather than her dealing with naughty kids, I just worked with them instead.

Gove's a twat, he won't be happy until the cane is back.

 

[fettoken]

Trusting TA's more than those teachers that have been working all their life, tired, uninspired, unappreciated mess. Put the blame on these teachers, the board that controls this and the government. In my experience, everyone cares for themselves and their own pays except for these TA's that works their ass off and helps these students to the best of their abilities and more in addition to what they are paid for.

 

[russell]

The whole system is totally fucked up. Its all government controlled in the wrong way and it breaks my heart daily that teachers are not given the space to do what is best for the kids. I teach and manage the whole of Lower school now and i manage TA'S who are amazing. To take away TA'S would be like taking all nurses out of the Nhs. Gove is a gibbering idiot.

 

[Edmond]

Yeah but what about all the holidays you lot get....pfft, east street if you ask me.






*runs very, very, very, very far away, changes name and identitiy and hibernates for the winter*

 

[Job]

The wife doesn't have a teaching degree, but is being left to effectively teach the kids, she just does this on the side while dealing with self harmers, girls who are being prostituted out by their boyfriends, their parents are dying and the huge increase in cyber bullying, which is just old style bullying except the evidence get's logged by the phone/computer and the parents call the Police or march into school with printouts and every episode has to be dealt with like a court case.
They stick girls head on naked pornstars with apps on the phone and text them around the school, then it's child porn charges, they film each other having sex, it's gone frickin mad.

 

[rynnor]

Teaching assistants were just teaching on the cheap - disgusting policy based on the similar scheme for the police.

I dont mind them going but they should be replaced by teachers - no point the state funding teacher training for no jobs.

I feel sorry for the people who were teaching assistants - ideally they should be helped into teacher training.

Teaching as a whole is a terrible job though - its the football of every government and restricted to the point where soon only the braindead will stick it out.

 

[Gwadien]

Teaching assistants were just teaching on the cheap - disgusting policy based on the similar scheme for the police.

I dont mind them going but they should be replaced by teachers - no point the state funding teacher training for no jobs.

I feel sorry for the people who were teaching assistants - ideally they should be helped into teacher training.

Teaching as a whole is a terrible job though - its the football of every government and restricted to the point where soon only the braindead will stick it out.

No they're not, Teaching Assistant roles are usually covered by mums who want to work school hours so they can be off with their kids.

They more or less never take control of a class theirselves, unless they're on the training programme to become a teacher.

As mentioned before, TA's get paid absolutely fuck all in comparison with a Teacher, and what you're saying is there should be 2-3 teachers in every class room for a class of 30, 'cos that's what it usually is, not all classrooms have a TA, only the ones who need them for one reason or another.

A lot of TA's do eventually become teachers by being a TA, but a lot don't because they simply don't want to (See TA's being Mums..) I was advised by a Head to do a degree, then become a TA, and show some interest and you'll get training and paid at the same time.

 

[Calaen]

Shit idea, while I agree TA's should not be taking lessons on their own. They play a vital part in childrens development especially during the early years of their education.

 

[soze]

Like PCSO's and the TA this was a way to save money while maintaining numbers and supposedly improving a service. If they are found to not be improving education then they need to go it is that black and white. The money should be reinvested in Education though not saved.

 

[Kryten]

Wrong, wrong and wrong. TA's are a necessity of the current education system. With no TA's, the modern classroom would not function at a suitable level. As said, to remove TA's you'd have to change the system.

 

[SheepCow]

I am not well enough informed to have a valid opinion. That is all.

 

[russell]

I can only speak for primary level where Ta's rarely take the class. A higher level TA who has been specifically trained may take the whole class for one lesson. Or as emergency sick and then they get paid more. They are all trained and experienced in specialist areas such as phonics, catch up Maths and often do speech& language daily programs and other medical interventions, as the government cut all that. TA'S are rarely class based. They work with statemented children or lead interventions to help all children achieve the correct level the government wants..All children are now numbers effectively.I kill myself now trying to do a good job for every child in my class without my dedicated TA'S that would become even more impossible. Wish i had never become a teacher.

 

[BloodOmen]

 

[Kryten]

I'm not a teacher, but work closely with them (and TA's naturally) both at primary and secondary levels. The impact a good TA has is amazing. With the above comments regarding inclusion being very true, a TA keeping a closer eye or providing a more balanced tuition to the one or few members of a class who may otherwise be disruptive, the benefits far outweigh any cons. (which I can't see there being many of!). In my main place of employment (secondary) there are some classes where the TA's make more of a difference to the class than the main teachers despite being paid a quarter as much and having less qualifications. That of course doesn't bode well for the teachers (Their time will come!) but it does show what a decent TA can do. Face facts here, the most important people in the classroom are the students and whatever is done must be for their benefit. There is no sane person on this planet that can honestly say removing good staff from a classroom would be of benefit to the students.

 

[Tom]

All this appears to come from the Daily Mail. And guess what, it isn't a government idea, it comes from a think tank. And the government have made no comment on the matter.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...artment-attempts-save-4billion-cost-year.html

So you'll excuse me if I don't contribute to what appears to be a lot of fuss about nothing. Basically, you all appear to be blaming Michael Gove for something he's had nothing to do with.

 

[Kryten]

Gove is a cock of the highest magnitude regardless, so any abuse aimed at him is fair play! This is something that has done the rounds before though.

I shall quote something from that very article:

"Think-tank Reform found that schools could improve value for money by cutting the number of teaching assistants and increasing class sizes"

I would suspect "Reform" whoever the fuck they are, is headed up by George Bush Junior and staffed by Jade Goody's ghost and Nicki Minaj. I don't need to say any more on that matter because that very quote alone does the job of proving they are fucktards without any more input.

 

[Scouse]

Meh.

Teaching is about preparing the masses for service jobs - like call centres. Working-class professions filled by people who aren't smart enough to realise they're working class.

There's a reason why we don't have well-funded teaching institutions - we're not actually trying to provide a proper education for people. We're just trying to fill lots of menial unrewarding by-the-numbers jobs - and you don't need a masters degree to do that.

A proper education would be expensive overkill that would fill the country full of unfulfilled unhappy people who wished they were doing something better with their lives.

Better to have stupid drunk people who conform and perform their menial prole roles properly and in a timely fashion for their industrial masters.

 

[Gumbo]

If they are found to not be improving education then they need to go it is that black and white.

This post goes well with this story.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-24433320

I honestly don't get the need to include the special kids with the regular kids, and then employ extra TA's to cope with that. It's a typical socialist idea of dumbing everyone else down to the lowest denominator. The above shows how well it's working and why changes have to have to have to be made to halt labours legacy which has failed recent kids and is still damaging kids today. This runs from primary schools who are coping with kids which simply shouldn't be getting schooled with the regular kids, to the fact that every dippy cunt thinks they are entitled to waste 3 years at university. It might be helping a few, but it's damaging the many. Political correctness and inclusivity aren't necessarily right, we've just been brainwashed not to tackle these things head on anymore. The results are in that BBC link above.

 

[Kryten]

I'm split on the idea personally. On one hand, I can certainly see how inclusion is beneficial for those with difficulty - exclusion has one hell of an effect on many individuals, knocks the confidence and means they are not exposed to how others work, socially, professionally.
However, again dwelling on personal experience, I do often think back and wonder if I would have benefited from a more one-to-one approach.
The trouble stems from the fact that education is very much a one size fits all which isn't in the general best interest of the students.
Sure as hell I get along great with the staff at my schools, our SEN departments do awesome jobs and we have some fantastic kids who come out the other end with good results considering their range of abilities, and that's in no small part down to the work of the SEN department, the teachers and the TAs during their inclusion in normal classes.

I think fixing the entirety of our education system however is a far wider topic. It needs to start with the removal of Gove.

 

[Gumbo]

I've never known a popular education secretary. Teachers love to moan, teachers love to strike. It's been going on for decades. The only slightly popular one was ex teacher Estelle Morris who quit when she realised she had to make changes/decisions which would be unpopular.