Tattoos in the workplace

[Naetha]

I am simply stating you knowingly have chosen to go down a path, you should equally be willing to accept the views of others that they are wrong regardless of your view on them

So by your logic (and everyone knows how big a fan I am of logic)...

Here's an example:

I believe paedophilia is wrong. However, I must accept that your view of paedophilia is right, regardless of my view on it?

 

[noblok]

Well, if tattoos were completely accepted, then she wouldn't have been asked to cover them in the first place. The fact that she was asked to cover them just shows they are not accepted in certain environments (such as the office).

I think the question should be rephrased. Should tattoos be accepted in the office?

 

[Chronictank]

So by your logic (and everyone knows how big a fan I am of logic)...

Here's an example:

I believe paedophilia is wrong. However, I must accept that your view of paedophilia is right, regardless of my view on it?

no, but almost.
you believe paedophilia is right, everyone else believes it is wrong. If you commit it you should be willing to accept the concequneces of your actions and how other people will look at you afterwards.
To your earlier point, tatoos actually used to be used to mark prisonners/criminals in some countries, later in modern day terms they were used as tags for street gangs in the US, China and other countries.
Hence the stigma

 

[elisera]

not for generations older than you and i, yes generally they are accepted now but the rationale behind older generations is still the same.
I am simply stating you knowingly have chosen to go down a path, you should equally be willing to accept the views of others that they are wrong regardless of your view on them

I would still disagree Chronic.. Older people I have met seem to be alot more accepting of my tattoos than younger people who have frowned on them - particularly as I am a girl and my main tattoo isn't a small butterfly sort of thing... You need only look on here to see how many people have judged whether tattoos look good on people or not without even having seen them to see if they are artistic or whether they help that person express a part of themselves.

The older generations seem to see it as a way to express ourselves without harming anyone else.. the judgements you think they make are based on more than just whether someone has a tattoo.. they are more to do with peoples entire attitudes or whether they appear to be a part of a gang or whatever..

 

[Chronictank]

I would still disagree Chronic.. Older people I have met seem to be alot more accepting of my tattoos than younger people who have frowned on them - particularly as I am a girl and my main tattoo isn't a small butterfly sort of thing... You need only look on here to see how many people have judged whether tattoos look good on people or not without even having seen them to see if they are artistic or whether they help that person express a part of themselves.

The older generations seem to see it as a way to express ourselves without harming anyone else.. the judgements you think they make are based on more than just whether someone has a tattoo.. they are more to do with peoples entire attitudes or whether they appear to be a part of a gang or whatever..

i stand corrected, i based my opinion of the people i have met/talked to.

the judgements you think they make are based on more than just whether someone has a tattoo.. they are more to do with peoples entire attitudes or whether they appear to be a part of a gang or whatever..

i think you hit the nail on the head, tatoo's in general are associated with a certain "group" of people as a result judged accordingly.
Everyone judges someone by their looks on some level, you cant help it its human instinct to evaluate someone initially before talking to them

 

[Gamah]

i stand corrected, i based my opinion of the people i have met/talked to.

i think you hit the nail on the head, tatoo's in general are associated with a certain "group" of people as a result judged accordingly

Damn And I just got my new nazi tats :<

 

[Naetha]

no, but almost.
you believe paedophilia is right, everyone else believes it is wrong. If you commit it you should be willing to accept the concequneces of your actions and how other people will look at you afterwards.
To your earlier point, tatoos actually used to be used to mark prisonners/criminals in some countries, later in modern day terms they were used as tags for street gangs in the US and other countries.
Hence the stigma

The example of paedophilia was a poor one because it effects other people. I still think the t-shirt way is the best way of putting tattooing in another context, its just a different level of commitment to the belief you are expressing.

I guess I just have to accept the consequences of wearing a Pink Floyd t-shirt when they're not cool, and how other people look at me afterwards. I don't give a fuck if you pre-judge me on what t-shirt I wear or what tattoos I choose to have and to show, if you think I'm a troublemaker, criminal, lowlife or whatever because of how I express myself, then that is your loss. I just think its unfortunate as you will only cut yourself off from other people.

What happens if you meet a girl you like (incidentally I have no idea if you're 12 and horny or 40, married with 3 kids), you get on really well, then find out she has a tattoo across her shoulders? Will you stop liking her? Will you not want to spend time with her any more?

“An open mind leaves a chance for someone to drop a worthwhile thought in it” Maybe something for you to consider.

 

[Gamah]

I find tats offensive because they look so god damn awefull.

 

[Naetha]

I find tats offensive because they look so god damn awefull.

Thats like saying you find paintings offensive because they look so god damn awful, yet there's a lot of different between a Monet, and what my kid brother can draw with a tin of paint and a potato...

 

[Gamah]

Thats like saying you find paintings offensive because they look so god damn awful, yet there's a lot of different between a Monet, and what my kid brother can draw with a tin of paint and a potato...

Ok I should of added "imo"

 

[lpep]

spent several years in the military.. was kinda the done thing on a weekend to get some sort of tattoo when ya was lashed....sometimes though, things like blood grp tattoed on ya arm wasnt a bad idea

 

[Chronictank]

The example of paedophilia was a poor one because it effects other people. I still think the t-shirt way is the best way of putting tattooing in another context, its just a different level of commitment to the belief you are expressing.

I guess I just have to accept the consequences of wearing a Pink Floyd t-shirt when they're not cool, and how other people look at me afterwards. I don't give a fuck if you pre-judge me on what t-shirt I wear or what tattoos I choose to have and to show, if you think I'm a troublemaker, criminal, lowlife or whatever because of how I express myself, then that is your loss. I just think its unfortunate as you will only cut yourself off from other people.

What happens if you meet a girl you like (incidentally I have no idea if you're 12 and horny or 40, married with 3 kids), you get on really well, then find out she has a tattoo across her shoulders? Will you stop liking her? Will you not want to spend time with her any more?

“An open mind leaves a chance for someone to drop a worthwhile thought in it” Maybe something for you to consider.

i didnt say i hated all people who have them, nor i am against them
i said i didnt like them personally so would never get one myself.
I simply put to you that people in general will judge you by your looks initially regardless how you feel about them or the matter of tatoos.
The same way you would judge a complete stranger and act accordingly when you first meet them

 

[Shagrat]

I don't get what people find so hard to understand about that girl's bosses negative attitude to her tattoo's.

Using other people's analogy of t-shirts, would you feel that she had been hard done by if her boss had criticised her for turning up at work in a tshirt in those designs?

I've got tattoo's on my arms and I am proud of them, but I wouldnt turn up to work with a shirt on (I work in an office) with celtic designs down my arms, just as I wouldnt wear something for work that exposed my tattoo's. There's a time and place for everything and your workplace, where you are representing the company you work for and not yourself is not the place for tattoo's.

 

[Raven]

I think that is a disgrace. Does that mean I have a problem?

yes it does, who are you to tell people how they should treat their bodys? just because someone has tattos doesnt make them any different to anyone else. freedom of expression, if someone wants to do that thats fine.

 

[Outlander]

yes it does, who are you to tell people how they should treat their bodys? just because someone has tattos doesnt make them any different to anyone else. freedom of expression, if someone wants to do that thats fine.

it doesnt mean he has a problem, it means he has an opinion.

I love tattoo's me! :wub:

 

[Beovulf]

Its all about preconceptions, I think it would be fair to say that most people find extensive visible tattoos a sign of aggression.

Typical example of preconceptions :-
http://www.boreme.com/boreme/funny-2006/bank-robber-p1.php

LMFAO

 

[rawr]

You use an extreme example. If you wore a t-shirt with a swastika on it, you would come up against similar assumptions.

You can't say the same about whether you have a tribal tattoo on your arm, or wear a t-shirt with tribal designs on it.

What people are, and shouldn't be prejudiced about is the fact that people have tattoos of designs rather than wear t-shirts of designs, as opposed to what they have tattoo'd/wear on their t-shirt.

Personally I think most tattoos are beautiful, if not interesting. There's always some that are vulgar, distasteful or just plain shit, but I'd say the majority of people these days get tattoos because they want to express something about themselves. I have three tattoos, two of which are large (lower back piece and across my shoulders), and one of which is always on view (on the inside of my wrist, although I am able to cover it with a watch if I want). I got them all for different reasons, but they all mean a lot to me, and I don't regret getting them, and I strongly doubt I will regret them when I'm 40, 60 or 80. I am currently in the process of working out how I can get my next tattoo to express what I want it to express in the best way I can, without jeopardising my promotion prospects

Your perception of tattoos being beautiful is yours alone, of course there will be others whom share your view, but the (very) important thing to clarify is that opinions are subjective.

I find tats offensive because they look so god damn awefull.


Thats like saying you find paintings offensive because they look so god damn awful, yet there's a lot of different between a Monet, and what my kid brother can draw with a tin of paint and a potato...

Who has the authority to say that a tin of paint and a potato is not art (read: modern art )?

My opinion on this matter regarding tattoos themselves is beside the point; of course if I were to mention my opinion on tattoos, the direction of this post and its whole context could be thrown off because it can be viewed as an attack etc, it is not.
I will however mention my opinion out of fairness; I do not find tattoos offensive (unless it is in a context that could be deemed offensive - important thing to consider here). I feel a well presented tattoo on a smaller scale can look nice (I do not like tattoos that cover whole areas); they do need to be complimentary to the person, however. Many tattoos I see seem too much and although I can appreciate them as an expression, I seriously doubt I would ever get a tattoo myself; I just do not like them. My perception could be seen as narrow-minded, I disagree, and I am entitled to my opinion as you are yours - I would hardly call myself prejudiced. I find tattoos on the whole to be rather distasteful on women, especially in excess. That said, although I feel tattoos have a wider range before they become distasteful on men, they still can and do become distasteful in excess. An important point to realise here is that just because someone finds something distasteful, it is no reason for you to feel offended because of this.
I am trying to be careful with my words, as I do not wish to offend anyone (why should I have to feel as though I am stepping on eggshells?) and will clarify any point I have made if desired.

The discussion at hand should be whether tattoos should remain a taboo in the workplace, freedom of expression is more than just a bit of artwork on your skin; it can be displayed in a number of ways, a haircut, jewellery, clothing. I feel the expression of tattoos gives the impression that it reflects a lifestyle, one that could be perceived as intimidating perhaps?
The code of conduct regarding appearance within the workplace is there for a reason, it has been decided on because of what the employers wish to present. I feel an important question to ask yourself, if you have a tattoo (that needs to be covered up in said circumstances) is; if you were/are self-employed, would you cover up your tattoos or not if you had to interact with customers (and on a lesser scale if you are self-employed, colleagues)? Of course the answer to this question is going to be subjective based upon another person's point of view, but I hope you consider the ideas I am trying to present.

yes it does, who are you to tell people how they should treat their bodys? just because someone has tattos doesnt make them any different to anyone else. freedom of expression, if someone wants to do that thats fine.

There is a difference between the expression of one person and the perception of another.

 

[Gear]

I didn't read all the replies, my opinion is that employers should have a say on how people look in jobs that have a direct interaction with the customers. People can do and look as they like in their private life, working life however is something completely different. Would anyone like to get served a cheeseburger from a guy that stinks half-way accross the room? Wouldn't think so.

 

[Hansmoleman]

I didn't read all the replies, my opinion is that employers should have a say on how people look in jobs that have a direct interaction with the customers. People can do and look as they like in their private life, working life however is something completely different. Would anyone like to get served a cheeseburger from a guy that stinks half-way accross the room? Wouldn't think so.

depends on the smell

 

[Dandare]

I bet those people that sneer at tattoo'd people "ruining" their bodies drink - in which case they don't have a leg to stand on. Glass houses, stones, you get the picture. Although they're the ones I have to subsidise when they see the error of their ways and need a liver transplant at the age of 32.

Oh no I'm tattooed and I drink where does that leave me
But back on topic I feel I do get pre-judged by my tattoos but I made the decision to have them (got about 11) but past caring about people what can't see past a bit of ink.
Personally it does'nt affect my work much, I do feel the higher management looking in safety meetings etc but I don't really care as they wont come off
But I do feel in customer service jobs and sales you ain't gonna get too far with some of the tats I got on show or even worse a couple of swallows on your neck.
So I think it was Lamp said it depends on the type of employment role and if it involves customer interaction, which if so I think body art or major peirceings are inappropitate.

Btw I'm drunk looking at my tattoos so if my spelling sucks then kiss my :kissit:

 

[Bladze]

The company I work for has recentley released a new Policy regarding this, basically any tattoos above the forearm must be covered while at work (no strappy tops for the girls). Its about context really, if you work in an office I think you should look proffesional (imagine going into hospital for an operation and the last thing you see before the Aneastathic takes effect is a Marilyn Manson look a like walk in weilding a bone saw.......That said noone bats an eye lid if the guy emptying the bins looks like a gypsy

 

[Cadiva]

not for generations older than you and i, yes generally they are accepted now but the rationale behind older generations is still the same.
I am simply stating you knowingly have chosen to go down a path, you should equally be willing to accept the views of others that they are wrong regardless of your view on them

Not quite, the generations older than us, ie my parents and grandparents, didn't think anything odd about tattoos at all, particularly not those on men and working class men at that.

As I've said, both my grandfathers served in the Armed Forces during WWII and both have/had (one is now dead sadly) tattoos, as does my uncle who was in the Navy.
They've never suffered any problem/prejudice from having tattoos given the jobs they've done - ie working class professions (engineer and meter reader on retirement from navy).

Females with tattoos is a relatively recent thing in the West at least and certainly to the extent of them being bold and in your face tattoos. Plenty of women have tattoos, myself included, but they're usually in places where it's easy to cover them up if need be.

And Neetha's OP was referring to the story on the BBC and the woman there, not herself

 

[elisera]

I find tattoos on the whole to be rather distasteful on women, especially in excess. That said, although I feel tattoos have a wider range before they become distasteful on men, they still can and do become distasteful in excess

I'm not gonna flame you for having an opinion but can I ask why you would make a distinction in the levels acceptable on men and women?

I only ask because personally I think my larger back tat looks alot more acceptable (and nicer but I'm biased ) than some smaller ones I have seen on men... Same thing goes for tattoos I have seen on others..

 

[rawr]

I'm not gonna flame you for having an opinion but can I ask why you would make a distinction in the levels acceptable on men and women?

I only ask because personally I think my larger back tat looks alot more acceptable (and nicer but I'm biased ) than some smaller ones I have seen on men... Same thing goes for tattoos I have seen on others..

Very good point to raise from what I have said.
I raised this issue because I do feel that there is a wider social tolerance between men and women when it comes to tattoos. From this point, it would be logical to ask if I am actually wrong in this view?

Tattoos are art, therefore; they will always be subjective in what is acceptable/ preferable in comparison between different people. I feel it is more common sense rather than a personal view, though to assume this from my side would be a bad idea; the larger a tattoo is, although it may look beautiful (especially in comparison to a small tattoo as you said ), the harder it will be to cover up. Therefore the more issues will arise in regard to social acceptance and possibly what is perceived to look appealing. I do not think that this is reason to feel offended or upset regarding this matter, however.

Of course, in my own preference; there will always be tattoos that I will prefer over another, no matter the size (where is the limit between a small or large tattoo drawn?) or location of the tattoo (although I do not like them much on the whole, this does not mean I dislike all of them or I think they should be abolished ).
I fully understand your perspective on this point, and I agree completely with what you are stating. I feel these two points would be a good direction to continue the discussion in this thread alongside the original discussion;
- Are larger tattoos less accepted than smaller ones and why?
- Is there a different level of social tolerance between men and women with tattoos and why?

 

[Naetha]

With tattoos I think there’s always a certain level of appropriateness, and again (sorry for those who don’t like the analogy) you can compare it to art… If you have a large wall, and hang three small pictures on it, then its going to look a bit poor, especially if they’re nothing different from you get elsewhere. This is what most people call the stampbook effect a la Britney Spears. They have lots of small tattoos that any teenager just chooses off the walls of the tattoo parlour – Chinese symbols, flowers, butterflies, fairies (more in the case of women) or skulls, flaming 8balls (my most hated tattoo design personally) bluebirds, etc etc. Personally I think that looks crap, although I’ll be first to admit my first tattoo was of a Japanese kanji on my left shoulderblade; although I later incorporated it into something bigger.

Going back to the art on the big wall – you may want a large painting of something original – it doesn’t necessarily take up the whole wall, but is a centre piece. You may want to turn the wall into a mural, using up every little bit of space, more often than not these pieces of work are either entirely abstract, or tell a story (such as Japanese backpieces).

Tattoos should also be appropriate for the part of the body they’re on – ideally they should enhance the existing contours and impressions the body gives. So for example tribal designs should give the impression that they “flow” over the contours of the body, following muscle tone etc.

Because men and women have different shaped bodies, show different parts of their bodies, and want to express different things (femininity or masculinity) they have different types of tattoos. You don’t get many women with tribal designs on the shoulder to improve the image of muscle tone, and likewise you don’t get many men with tattoos at the base of their back as its not an area men show very often (builders aside ofc).

Women are becoming more tattooed these days. Partly it’s a bandwagon effect – those that have always wanted tattoos feel that is more socially acceptable to get them now than they did say 20 years ago. Partly its because tattooists, designers and the tattooed people themselves are becoming more creative and more expressive – you can go into a tattoo parlour and commission anything, rather than say 15 years ago when you could only choose from designs in a book. Although traditionally men have always been tattooed more than women, its also more common for men to get tattoos, for the same reason as the women, although it seems that men are more likely to get symbols tattooed on them, such as band names, crosses etc.

At the end of the day, no matter what people say tattoos are art – as much as sculpture is art, and painting is art. Whether you like them or not depends on your own take on art in general, and you view of that artpiece how its presented, and the way it comes across.

There is a very good website that shows a variety of different types of tattoo here.

Pictures of my tattoos are in my gallery on
FH. Feel free to comment (constructively please!) if you like

 

[elisera]

From this point, it would be logical to ask if I am actually wrong in this view?

I wouldn't say you are wrong as everyone has a right to an opinion whether I agree with it or not, and I am sure plenty of others would agree with you as well. My only comment would be I think people need to be careful about generalising so much in their comments.

I feel it is more common sense rather than a personal view, though to assume this from my side would be a bad idea; the larger a tattoo is, although it may look beautiful (especially in comparison to a small tattoo as you said ), the harder it will be to cover up.

I don't think the size has as much to do with this as the placement of the tattoo.. For example, large back tattoos are relatively easy to cover up on both males and females whereas a smaller tattoo on the neck or even forearm limits what you can wear to cover it.

I fully understand your perspective on this point, and I agree completely with what you are stating. I feel these two points would be a good direction to continue the discussion in this thread alongside the original discussion;
- Are larger tattoos less accepted than smaller ones and why?
- Is there a different level of social tolerance between men and women with tattoos and why?

Sadly I think smaller tattoos now have become something of a fashion accessory, with guys and girls getting them when they are quite young out of novelty.. From my own experiences people I have met with larger tattoos have put more thought into it and got something they really want, that know they will live with for the rest of their lives. Now that is not to say that people with smaller tattoos do not do the same but I know alot of people (girls in particular) who got something small when they were out with their mates for the sake of getting one and they already hate it because it wasn't something they really wanted.

I think the tolerances between tattoos on men and women are evening out a bit more in that it is acceptable now for a woman to have one (although alot of the time people seem to be strict with that figure). However, I do think people still like women to have small, dainty tattoos of flowers/butterflies or whatever whilst men can get something large and colourful. I mean people love seeing David Beckhams next tattoo while Angelina Jolie seems to get alot of pity for having so many varied ones!

Personally, while I may not like everyone elses tattoos I reckon it is their choice and as long as they are happy with what they have then let them be imo

Out of curiosity I would love to know if those people with strong views against tattoos/excessive tattoos or whatever way you want to put it, feel as strongly about plastic surgery to alter appearances...

 

[elisera]

Pictures of my tattoos are in my gallery on
FH. Feel free to comment (constructively please!) if you like

Very nice

Here is quite an old pic of my main one http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v255/Annouk/My stuff/angel.jpg

 

[Cadiva]

Personally I think a lot of it as well has to do with if they are coloured tattoos or not.

Not sure really quite how to explain this but I've always found that my tattoos, which are simple black outlines/shadings, generally get a favourable reaction even from people who don't like them (tattoos in general that is).
I once worked with a girl though who had a much smaller coloured tattoo (of a sunflower) on her ankle and she had received negative comments, even though it was way smaller than mine (which covers pretty much all of my right shoulder blade).

Simple black and shaded tattoos (or any single colour/shading) seem, in my view anyways, to be received better than a full on coloured piece.

Whatever the reason, I love my tattoos, I don't regret having them done for a second and, if I could change anything, I would have had my Celtic Cross bigger in the first place and then had my second one as a separate tattoo, rather than as extra to enclose the cross.

 

[elisera]

My only regret would be similar to yours Cad. I would love to have had her wings larger stretching across my shoulderblades a bit more and if I get a chance I'm gonna go back and see if he can add it on without it looking like an afterthought!

 

[Varna]

I have something like this, my freinds laughed but I think it means alot - Not just about the lyrics but also it's meaning and purpose for having it. I think if you feel so strongly about something and believe than after thinking it through properly that you'll still like it in 30 years and stay true to its purpose, then you should go with your heart. Anyway, it's something like this..