tankgroups (copied from BW)

Angara

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Dec 23, 2003
Messages
579
Tyka posted:

Ok I've played some in tank groups the last 4 days, and want to share my opinions about this and also see other peoples thoughts.

Have played now in most different kind of setups and so far I've found this one to work the best:

Bard, Druid, Druid, Warden, 3 BMs, 1 Hero.

The 2 key classes here are bard (as usual) and the hero, a good hero can change everything really. Warden twist dmg add / bubble and heal when needed (if you can't find a good warden get another druid), 1 nature druid, 1 nurt druid, the bms I prefer in my groups are blade specced because of better styles and more benefit from the slow weapons (you know the formula).

Anyways, I played with this setup group (everyone except bms were rr9 more or less) bms were rr4 gimps, and I think its the best setup at this moment a tank group in hib can get. Of course BMs need a bit more higher rr (a bm is good at rr6) but talking about setup.

Also played once or twice with a mana eld in group with disease + str/con debuff wich would help alot but the mana eld really needs to be a very good player (high rr with WA3 at least) and he probably would take the warden spot, wich I don't feel to comfortable with.

Let me know what you think is the best tank group setup. (yeyeye crossposting, who cares) ;)
 

saks

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Jan 9, 2004
Messages
393
when i played with Random Roleplayers we often was 1bard,3bms,1hero,2 druids and 1 warden or 3 druids no warden, worked very well but i liked the one with Warden the most, buble is quite handy, and they dont even need to twist with dmg add to be useful.
Ofcourse a BM grp need a good MA and the hero need atleast 50shield + 11 items + Mob4 to be useful, you need some serious blockage.
Only bad thing about Tank grps is that they dont do as well against Zergs as caster grps do, but overall i like running tanks grps.
 

Stallion

Can't get enough of FH
Joined
Jan 16, 2004
Messages
2,732
in baf we played..
2xbb ungrped ;)
1x nat druid
1x nurt druid
3x bms
1x hero
1x bard
1x warden or another bard or druid..

we didnt run much with the hero even thou I really wanted it.. you need to slow the opponents tanks down...

those were the days ;)
 

saks

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Jan 9, 2004
Messages
393
you guys did well stajj :)

Ofc. you need 1-2 BBs outside grps to compare with the savage grps. But that aint that hard to get nowadays.
 

Auvyndar

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Jan 23, 2004
Messages
6
Vw, Vw, Vw, Drood (nat),Drood (nut),Warden, Bard
again ;P

Probably all will see this group nearly in rvr :flame:
 

Faeldawn

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Dec 27, 2003
Messages
916
If only tank groups would actually choose a warden over a second (or third sometimes) druid or bard, sadly this doesnt happen very often.


Anyway, on topic, ideal setup for me would be same as Tyka's origional post, however i do think having a mix of BM weapon spec is advantageous, and one of them having shield spec is handy (50/50/28/10 cutter).
 

saks

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Jan 9, 2004
Messages
393
Tomatera made a shield/pierce BM once, it was a pain for him to change from 2weaps to 1weap/shield becuase he had to do it in inv :/
Becuase of that he went back to pierce CD spec
 

Faeldawn

Fledgling Freddie
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Dec 27, 2003
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916
Just kinda handy if yer healers are getting mashed to peel and guard one of them.
 

Joxer

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Jan 23, 2004
Messages
121
(puts on an old Beetles-record): All we are saaaaaying...is gif Champs a chaaance.

No seriously....I posted it on the old forums and I will post it here again. Take one of the BMs out and get a Champ into that group. Sure sure..Determination may be a problem but you got two druids in that group (who definately should have GP anyway) plus selfpurge. So you won't have to worry about the mez at least the first three times. Furthermore...if you let the Champ run a bit behind the group (just one or two lurilengths) you can avoid the first mez most times.

People really underestimate Champs. Everyone sees that its a class who misses Determination and therefor must be gimped. But a wellplayed Champ can definately contribute a lot to a group. The DD and Snare are great when you need to interrupt someone and if you ever face a savage you will learn the value of a good-placed debuff.

A Champ in group may need to adjust his playstile a bit, it is a totally different experience than playing a Hero or BM but imo they definately deserve a spot in a tankgroup.
 

Vodkafairy

Fledgling Freddie
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Dec 23, 2003
Messages
7,805
It's not just mezz, it's also castable stun and root which you will definitely face in all the fights :(

But yes debuffing savages might work, you just take alot of damage potential away since you're very easy to block for a guarder and simply have lower damage output.
 

Gillaien

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Jan 17, 2004
Messages
43
Champs also have guard tho (or should have), so a good chimp with higher RR (good blocking rate etc) might really work out. Could be worth a try.

As for the warden, I wouldn't really take him out since pbt DOES help, even if its only a few hits it absorbs. Sometimes 50 health more more can already keep a key player alive (like the bard, or a druid) which in the end changes the outcome of the fight. Plus, a warden with a good reg spec is a decent healer.


Something else is the RR thing. The druids don't have to be that high (RR5+ I would say) since the important thing here is GP which they will get as first thing anyway, bard tho should be 6-7 or more preferably so he holds out longer, also experience is an important point here since the bard is kinda the most important factor in such a group (or in most groups anyway). The Hero deffo should be high RR for best possible blocking rate etc, plus its a hard to play character when alone in a group (takes a lot of playing time to be good in the guard/slam game, so much to keep track of). The BMs, I agree, should have RR6+ to have a decent dmg output. They are the ones killing the enemy, so they need some fire in their fists ;) And the Warden, well - he should habe some healing RAs (wh, moh) and TWF, I guess RR5+ will do the job here as well.

Maybe these RRs aren't the optimum, but it's what I think is enough for almost all groups you could face (except JH Einherjar grp ofc). Not like there's THAT many RR9/10 players to pick from anyway ;)
 

Vodkafairy

Fledgling Freddie
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Dec 23, 2003
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A shield champ? oO

That's either 42 shield or 28 weaponskill :(

No det means it's not a good idea to replace the hero with a shield champ, but only two damage dealers can't kill much :p
 

Joxer

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Jan 23, 2004
Messages
121
Vodkafairy said:
It's not just mezz, it's also castable stun and root which you will definitely face in all the fights :(

But yes debuffing savages might work, you just take alot of damage potential away since you're very easy to block for a guarder and simply have lower damage output.
got half a point there, VF though I dont really agree on the dmg output. As for the block-thing: Never found that to be a problem tbh but that may be just my own experience.
 

Shawr

Fledgling Freddie
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Jan 23, 2004
Messages
149
Vodkafairy said:
It's not just mezz, it's also castable stun and root which you will definitely face in all the fights :(

But yes debuffing savages might work, you just take alot of damage potential away since you're very easy to block for a guarder and simply have lower damage output.
Castable stun is not that long to worry about, especially as your resists still reduce it. It's still not as bad as a slam. Root might be annoying but you still can be helpful to the group while you wait for it to run out. You still have 2 interupts in the form of dd and snare, you could take the time to debuff everything etc. and snare anything chasing anyone/being chased. Or simply get people to come to you so you can kill anything that's on them. You still have options, but i admit lack of det makes it tough to keep up with the assist train sometimes.

If you find yourself meeting a guarder dex/qui debuff helps, also if possible you can try and annihilate them before getting back to hitting your main target.

I would say champs are viable in RvR groups, just they need a lot more thought to play than a bm or a hero.
 

Alme

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Jan 22, 2004
Messages
551
Joxer said:
(puts on an old Beetles-record): All we are saaaaaying...is gif Champs a chaaance.

No seriously....I posted it on the old forums and I will post it here again. Take one of the BMs out and get a Champ into that group. Sure sure..Determination may be a problem but you got two druids in that group (who definately should have GP anyway) plus selfpurge. So you won't have to worry about the mez at least the first three times. Furthermore...if you let the Champ run a bit behind the group (just one or two lurilengths) you can avoid the first mez most times.
If u play like u should u will _never_ get caught in the first mezz as a tank. However vs good grps u always get CCed later on. Which means determination is extremely important. But we ran with champs and such in IG and it worked fine, but its deffo better with a det tank.
 

arneduck

Loyal Freddie
Joined
Dec 28, 2003
Messages
22
ideal IMO is having an hero MA who slams the target first, makes the bm's work lots easier :) (hi there sidechain)

so 1 bard, 2 druids, 2 heroes, 2 bm's, 1 warden OR mana eld. (a good tankgroup-eld can be the very best class in the group, and also makes the guard-hero's work easier... since all good groups go for the caster first you know who to guard ;))
 

Brealanna

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Jan 8, 2004
Messages
12
A note on the Warden dam add/pbt twisting, it is going to be dam hard to do it properly after 1.67 patch as Mythic has changed it so that a player can not have a bubble recast on them for 2.5 secs. This has 2 impacts.

1) A 2 Warden group will find it very hard to sync pbt and zone lag will effect it as well making it instead of a 2x 3sec bubble to a 4-6 sec bubble if not timed right.

2) If twisting damm add and pbt the Warden would have to time it so that the pbt twist is after 2.5 secs or it would make it into a 8.5 sec before the pbt effects everyone.

I can't say how this would effect groups untill 1.67 is here (comming with the TOA patch I believe) but I think it would mean that groups would take a 3rd Druid over a Warden if they expect the Warden to twist chants, I know my guild tank groups would still proberly run with a Warden just to cut down on hits but we will see.
 

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