Tactics, tactics, tactics.....

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Casbardh

Guest
Hows about this ?

A lot of Fighters I have heard, those characters who rely on hand to hand combat to inflict their damage, feel that they have been given a bad deal in RvR.

Well, is this true?

Unfortuantely, in a lot of ways, yes. For one, we have been given the title of "Tanks" which I feel is very unrealistic. What do you picture when you think of the word Tank? Unless you keep tropical fish I bet its a large, heavily armoured tracked vehicle with a huge gun on it. It has the capability to absorb high damage attacks and the ability to kill at long ranges. Our "tanks" have the Hp's to make them pretty tough, but they lack the firepower.

So when it comes RvR Battles, they charge, get mezzed/nuked and die. They have no way to strike back - apart from being able to suck up huge amounts of enemy firepower before carping it.

Not really a "tank" in the conventional sense is it? I would call them infantry or fighters.

However, if you look at the caster characters, they have the long range firepower, but little "armour" or Hp's. I would therefore call Casters Artillery or Machine Gun equivelent.

Essentially any fighter who shoves his head above the parapet aggresively gets it blown away for him.

What this shows is that our RvR battlefield is very much like that of the battlefields of the first world war. Artillery and long ranged rapid firepower rule supreme. The "fighters" are there to protect the "artillery" and to try and gain ground by the sacrifice of their blood.

Also, if you look at any battle in history that involves the PBI (Poor Bloody Infantry), the PBI make up the largest and most disturbing proportion of the casualties. So RvR is very much like a real battle - infantry die in large numbers as its "what they do". Another un-technical phrase I believe is "Cannon Fodder"!

So indeed, doom and gloom for the PBI. Leaving us fighting classes feeling miffed that it is the artillery who rules their lives, having no inate ability to operate in its face without losing to it.

But do not be disenhearted brave folk! We need to discover if there is a way out of this foregone conclusion?

If you look at how WWI tactics developed, they moved from reliance on raw Artillery support and straight lines of advance in 1916 to more complicated, combined arms co-ordinated assaults towards the end of the war with more success (by that making use of more than raw bludgeoning power, but other arms say a minstral giving a fighter a speed buff, artillery, tanks and more applicable tactics).

This shows that our tactics, especially for the PBI, need to improve to make us more than damage sponges. That is, to get us close enough to the enemy to inflict damage as well.

I would ask the question then, in simple terms of grouping and co-ordination, how do you get a fighter class from A.) His own lines to the Z.) Enemy lines without the majority of them being nuked/mezzed to death?
 
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old.Gombur Glodson

Guest
Gl trying to do war tactics in daoc....it wont work :(
 
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lakih

Guest
Sneaking around the edges... hiding in my firbiepals <insert word>. Or just dont look important enough to be mezzed in the fist place :p

(u can also dress in robes, pretending to be a pbaoe caster... just change to hauberk before u engage the enemy)
 
C

Casbardh

Guest
War tactics dont work in DAOC?

Everything we do is a use of force to acheive an aim - e.g. to kill an enemy. DAOC has its own tactics, and what I am suggesting from my posts is that we need to look at how things have happened in the past and develope from that.

The whole point of the post says that our current tactics are pretty crude and can suck - so we could develope them and think how we can do things better - how better can we work together Gombur to kill our enemy?
 
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old.Gombur Glodson

Guest
start be making people stop running away all the bloody time, gets annoying in the end
 
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Marcus75

Guest
I believe the problem is that there are too many individual minds on the battlefield. If everyone worked together and followed the preplanned strategy to the ebd then I think every class in the game has a place in RvR AND that success will follow.

But as long as people put themself above the plan then it won't work. :(
 
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kalgarn

Guest
the easiest thing i find too get good rp's and kill ppl is just bye grouping with one healer and one skald.healers mezz/stuns and the skald give you the speed to take the ones running away.but you do need to work tohether.otherwise you are in for alot of rides too the frontiers.;)
and god knows i had too to do it alot :D
 
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Jonaldo

Guest
Can always try middies tactic, it's like... Not very organised but we'll smash your 20 lvl 35+ defenders of Crauchon with three times as many lvl 40+ attackers... :p

If us Hibs had anywhere NEAR the numbers midgard has, they would hold 0 keeps and 0 relics.. we would probably let the albs hold one but sometimes they get annoying ;)

Hopefully soon more people will join Hibs and we'll make much more of a fight of it all :)
 
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old.Jadow

Guest
Albs need an Emperor Palpatine-like figure to mind control the tanks into not running away :D

Nilo? ;)

*giggle*

Jadow
Lvl 4x Infiltrator
Unguilded.
 
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old.cerebus

Guest
heh......you Albs have a problem with running away in battle and us Hibs have a problem with charging into the enemy too fast.

I wonder if there is a perfect place where we all follow instructions, don't all run in different directions and actually manage not to let our egos get in the way of battle?

Oh yeah, I suppose there is one place :D
 
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old.Jeriraa

Guest
Those casters you got can in no way be compared to machine guns! They are damn bloody artellery! If you want to know what you are talking about play a Middie and try to set up a ram on the inner door of a defended Keep.

Archers were intended to be the machine guns but they didn't gave us what they promised: Volley. Things will somewhat change with 1.48 I bet. You casters behind the doors will see alot of arrows sticking out of your robes by then. :p
 
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old.cerebus

Guest
I doubt Midgard will be of much concern to Hibernia and Albion after the patch. :D
 
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malenka

Guest
Troll warriors with good shield skills make excellent guards for casters. Plankton and I are practising hard at this tactic and I'm sure we will get better as time goes on. Apparently in patch 1.50, shammies get pbaoe and area root. I am really looking forward to that.
 
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old.Kelmon

Guest
Archers are a class of the past. They get nerfed in 1.48, 1.49 and again in 1.50. Don't count on having many 'machine guns' around.. You will however, be drowning in assassins, since that is apparantly the 'Flavour of the Month' in those patches. ;)

I mean, See Hidden. 8 realmpoints buys you a skill that completely nullifies the entire archer Stealth skills. No matter how many 100s of skillpoints you have in it, it's worthless. >_<
 
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old.Jeriraa

Guest
I am really in hope that by the time we get 1.50 Mythic got the idea that they have destroyed the archer classes with "see hidden" and that GOA won't patch us with that kinda junk.

If not there is allways SWG or Shadowbane.

!!!No Archer whinning here!!!

Edit: "see hidden" nullifies Assins stealth too, doesn't it?
 
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old.Greggor

Guest
Casters rule in RvR can this ever be changed?

There is a change in rvr to player vs mob and only than doing more damage is the only one i can see.

Parry and block are non existant in rvr.

Will my parry skill of 57 i just dont parry?

Why? I should parry 34.5% of hits?

I have heard that u cant block/parry styles but i myself have had 2 styles blocked so i cant see if that is the case?

But evade works just aswell in pvmob and in rvr so SB can easly stand a good chance against a equal lvl tank?

Also i have a chance of missing and fumbling in h2h(hand to hand)!!! Can casters miss or fumble there spells?

The point i am make is the is a change between pvp and pvmob that does not affect mage/caster in anyway and brings the pure melee class (which imo are only need for keep attacks and xping)
into a poor rvr class much poorer than they should be?

The only defence against mez/stun/root is being higher lvl in pvp but if u are fighting 50th lvl casters thses spell work 100% and i mean 100% of the time.

If there where a chance of the to fail in pvp this would give a tank better chance of doing something in rvr rather than stun nuke nuke die.

Also the mage would think maybe if this fail i will be dead, rather than it is now i will mezz him run away and nuke him easy fighter kill :( nice realm points for me

Another soln would to give pure melee class warroir / hero / armsman a resistance to these spells to make them less effective against them.

Because the only way of causing damage with these classes is in h2h if they never get there u might aswell leave the game :(.

If all the fighter classes leave the game will be death of daoc.
 
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old.Bubble

Guest
Staying in Cover and Ambushing groups of lvl 50 mids seems to work for us...mez them all and kill them one at a time
 
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Kerram Darktyde

Guest
Originally posted by Jeriraa
I am really in hope that by the time we get 1.50 Mythic got the idea that they have destroyed the archer classes with "see hidden" and that GOA won't patch us with that kinda junk.

If not there is allways SWG or Shadowbane.

!!!No Archer whinning here!!!

Edit: "see hidden" nullifies Assins stealth too, doesn't it?

Um As far as i understand it no Assassins are not affected by See Hidden only by the archer one (forgot name) which is see EVERYthing for 2 mins (or so) and has a 30min timer on it..
 
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Milkshake

Guest
I find the problem with playing a "tank" is I can never catch anyone.

The caster casts. Then runs away.

The archer shoots me. Then runs away.

The minstrels, the bards, they all run away.

Rarely do they kill me since I have a huge amount of HP, but I can't catch up with them again once they get their blow.

I suggest a speed boost be implemented. Not like a skald, but like an archer's Speed of Prey, just a quick 5 second boost.

That way, I can charge at the dirty hibbie casters, or the sneaky alb archers....and catch them.

And they wouldn't stand a chance :)
 
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Naevyn

Guest
dunno about Albs, but Heros get realm abilities trip and grapple, which snare or root all targets near you respectively, looking forward to em 8).
 

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