Swordmaster Stances and Crowd Control reactions

[Gahn]

I sincerly dunno if it boils down to my laptop not being the overall best possible piece of HW to run the game or, as it seems to me, the infamous Disorient bug which sets back melee styles and "locks" the timer bar at 1 second.
Anyway yesterday i was out at late night searching for some 1 vs 1 to get my reactions back in the Gimpmaster and i ran in a Chosen and had some multiple fights with a Marauder.
The Chosen fight was a nightmare (he had Corrupting Horror i guess up) i think i managed to finish off 1 cycle from Normal -> Improved -> Perfect Balance cause i shattered the enchant, the rest of the fight, invariably, my Gimpo remained locked in the middle of the action, with the bar at 1s filled and all the buttons greyed out, with me only able to move around.
Against the Marauder i had 8 fights, in the 7 in which he used Thunderous Blow (even tho to a minor extent) same result (ofc when i wasn't disarmed xD) and bad loss.
I tried to frantically keep bashing the supposed to be lit and ready abilities (not the same one ofc) and the Combat log had a long thoery of Ability Not Ready Yet spam.
Bit frustrating to say the least.

 

[Roo Stercogburn]

I'm sure if you manage to find me 1v1 you'll feel good about yourself pretty quick.

Oh wait. Wrong server

 

[TheBinarySurfer]

This is a problem i've had on the SM. The stance often resets to the starting stance when disarmed, interrupted or knockdowned. Often disorient will trip it.

In terms of dps, I seem to put out 40-50% less dps on average (as being Khaine spec a sizeable amount of my dps comes from 2nd and 3rd stance attacks).

In my opinion, the SM balance mechanic needs revision full stop as we suffer more than any other class from disarms/knockdowns due to this.

 

[Jaberwocky]

In my opinion, the SM balance mechanic needs revision full stop as we suffer more than any other class from disarms/knockdowns due to this.

Do you now

The stance reset bug is annoying but happens less often on my Black Orc than it seems to for the above posters.

 

[Jaberwocky]

The Balance/Plan mechanic has it's fair share of problems and at times seems like more of a hindrance than anything else, in fairness most of the stance resetting bugs I suffered were fixed a few patches ago, if the above posters are indeed suffering as many problem as they claim then I would encourage them to send in feedback reports and get a few threads up in the class section over on Warhammer alliance for a more direct chance of getting some confirmation from Mythic.

 

[civy]

If the patch notes that were knocking about wernt fake then we will soon see a end to disorient in melee as it will be a % of cast time and since melee is insta it will be immune.

Crosses fingers

 

[Jaberwocky]

If the patch notes that were knocking about wernt fake then we will soon see a end to disorient in melee as it will be a % of cast time and since melee is insta it will be immune.

Crosses fingers

Personally I'm more interested in the normalisation of armour penetration, but the cc that mostly fraks over the stance system is Disarms and knock-downs.

 

[Grotnob]

This is a problem i've had on the SM. The stance often resets to the starting stance when disarmed, interrupted or knockdowned. Often disorient will trip it.

Yes, I totally agree. It's wholly unacceptable that when a class which relies on balance is stunned or knocked down, it should have to regain it's balance before it can pull off it's most damaging moves.

 

[TheBinarySurfer]

Do you now

The stance reset bug is annoying but happens less often on my Black Orc than it seems to for the above posters.

Should have included BO's in that but wasn't thinking after a long day!

Yes, I totally agree. It's wholly unacceptable that when a class which relies on balance is stunned or knocked down, it should have to regain it's balance before it can pull off it's most damaging moves.

Ignoring your slightly snide tone and facetious logic there,the base point is this: black orcs and swordmasters suffer more than any other class from knockdown/stun in terms of loss of dps/utility.

A BW/Sorc can be nuking at full power the second they're up/unstunned again, a shaman/rp/zealot etc can be healing at full strength, a marauder/wl can be hitting for full damage. We have to wait at least 3 (+ the stun/knockdown 2-3 seconds making 5-6 seconds in all) seconds to get back to where we were before, and have lost a good chunk of our dps in doing so.

Edit: This often becomes 10+ seconds with the ability/recovery/gc lag in big sieges, making it very difficult to get off a full chain.

 

[Gahn]

Should have included BO's in that but wasn't thinking after a long day!



Ignoring your slightly snide tone and facetious logic there,the base point is this: black orcs and swordmasters suffer more than any other class from knockdown/stun in terms of loss of dps/utility.

A BW/Sorc can be nuking at full power the second they're up/unstunned again, a shaman/rp/zealot etc can be healing at full strength, a marauder/wl can be hitting for full damage. We have to wait at least 3 (+ the stun/knockdown 2-3 seconds making 5-6 seconds in all) seconds to get back to where we were before, and have lost a good chunk of our dps in doing so.

Edit: This often becomes 10+ seconds with the ability/recovery/gc lag in big sieges, making it very difficult to get off a full chain.

Apart the dps loss there's also the CC defensive mechanic which get screwed in the process since we are stuck with the KB in 3rd spot in chain and ... oh wait we got only that

 

[`mongoose]

Apart the dps loss there's also the CC defensive mechanic which get screwed in the process since we are stuck with the KB in 3rd spot in chain and ... oh wait we got only that

Don't SM get a root/snare as well?

I'm sure I've been stunned or rooted by a SM in fights before now.

personally I think that Borcs and SM should have options which make them harder to disrupt than other tanks as it would fit with their mechanic better.

For instance. A Borc should be harder to knockdown due to his size whereas a SM would be harder to knockdown because of their innate agility. That works fluffwise and keeps knockdowns/disarms being effective without unduly punishing those classes for the mechanics they use.

I'm also looking forwards to the day when Disorientates are more equal. I don't want to see my class nerfed (Marauder is my class of choice) but I do want to see the game be a bit more fun to play. if I have to sacrifice my stacking disorientates to remove the Disabled/Disarmed/Stunned/Knockdown/Death that happens regularly now I feel it's a small price to pay.

Immunities aren't working properly atm. I'd like to see those fixed first then review where classes like SM are with chains being reset and DPS loss.

M

 

[Gahn]

Don't SM get a root/snare as well?

I'm sure I've been stunned or rooted by a SM in fights before now.

personally I think that Borcs and SM should have options which make them harder to disrupt than other tanks as it would fit with their mechanic better.

For instance. A Borc should be harder to knockdown due to his size whereas a SM would be harder to knockdown because of their innate agility. That works fluffwise and keeps knockdowns/disarms being effective without unduly punishing those classes for the mechanics they use.

I'm also looking forwards to the day when Disorientates are more equal. I don't want to see my class nerfed (Marauder is my class of choice) but I do want to see the game be a bit more fun to play. if I have to sacrifice my stacking disorientates to remove the Disabled/Disarmed/Stunned/Knockdown/Death that happens regularly now I feel it's a small price to pay.

Immunities aren't working properly atm. I'd like to see those fixed first then review where classes like SM are with chains being reset and DPS loss.

M

Yeh aoe root also, you are right

 

[TheBinarySurfer]

Yeah, the snare isn't worth a damn though unless you spec for Quick Incision to add a dot to it, as it's base damage is pathetic.

 

[dee777]

Yeah, the snare isn't worth a damn though unless you spec for Quick Incision to add a dot to it, as it's base damage is pathetic.

I think the prime use of a snare is to make sure the enemy cant get out of melee range. The amount of damage should be of lower importance.

However I agree that SMs/BOs suffer the hardest from disorients and knockdowns in their current form. I dont know if that should be changed since I like the idea of "counterclasses". Of course I agree that if that idea is widely accepted as a concept, it should be balanced out over all the classes.

 

[Reno]

I think the prime use of a snare is to make sure the enemy cant get out of melee range. The amount of damage should be of lower importance.

While that's true, the snare used to do a lot more damage back when it was still a DoT. Now its damage is almost lower than even the lowest auto attack you can get.

Danita