SW:TOR vs GW2 Crafting

[svartalf]

Both of these games came out with crafting info lately so here is a round-up:

Both linked pages have videos.

SWTOR CRAFTING

GW2 CRAFTING

From what I've seen I prefer the lazy option... er... I mean SWTOR's system seems to be more of a managerial style, which I prefer to the guessing mini-game that you can see on the GW2 video.

 

[pito]

well the crafting in swtor is ok but like you said is easy, and with no much player interaction and for me that is boring.
And from what i have seen my money is on GW2 to be better than swtor, I think bioware made a solid game but there is nothing new or innovative in it to say yea this will be the next wow or at least a wow killer, and i am not saying that gw2 will be the wow killer but i think it has the potential to be at least as success full, al though i am hoping that it will be better than wow

 

[pez]

T o be fair though, if you're looking for the next WoW killer you're not looking for new and innovative. I mean, thats not how WoW became what it is.

 

[Soazak]

well the crafting in swtor is ok but like you said is easy, and with no much player interaction and for me that is boring.

For me crafting isn't some minigame, it's a means to an end. The easier it is to get out of the way the better imo

I don't think it's possible to create a crafting system that I would find fun, just different levels of tolerance

 

[Ctuchik]

For me crafting isn't some minigame, it's a means to an end. The easier it is to get out of the way the better imo

Couldn't agree more, complicated or tedious crafting is just there to cover up for bad actual content implementation most of the time, with EQ2 being an exception along with STO (although STO lacks in end game content and klingon content).

A few examples:

DAoC: a game with insanely tedious crafting and very little actual gameplay content outside grinding.

Rift: easy crafting but has solid content. It's not perfect but it's noticeable.

WAR: unimaginably boring and tedious crafting and little to no inspiring content outside an interest to following the story through the tiers.

EQ2: I really like the crafting there, it's fun and it's quite easy to get crafting mats if you gather as you quest or have a T3 guild hall. But at the same time i never got the feeling that it's covering up for anything as the game has LOADS of really good content.

STO: probably the game that wins the "most retarded way to gather materials" award. It does have content, but only if you play Federation and don't care about the end game.

AoC: never really gave crafting there a serious chance as all the nodes were always mined out and i quit before mobs got materials in their loot table, but i never felt it was hard to craft anything, just hard to get the components. And disregarding the content gaps it wasn't really that bad overall.

As shown, there are exceptions, but usually when you play a game that has a "thought through" crafting game, the overall content usually suffers.

 

[Chosen]

Couldn't agree more, complicated or tedious crafting is just there to cover up for bad actual content implementation most of the time, with EQ2 being an exception along with STO (although STO lacks in end game content and klingon content).

A few examples:

DAoC: a game with insanely tedious crafting and very little actual gameplay content outside grinding.

Rift: easy crafting but has solid content. It's not perfect but it's noticeable.

WAR: unimaginably boring and tedious crafting and little to no inspiring content outside an interest to following the story through the tiers.

EQ2: I really like the crafting there, it's fun and it's quite easy to get crafting mats if you gather as you quest or have a T3 guild hall. But at the same time i never got the feeling that it's covering up for anything as the game has LOADS of really good content.

STO: probably the game that wins the "most retarded way to gather materials" award. It does have content, but only if you play Federation and don't care about the end game.

AoC: never really gave crafting there a serious chance as all the nodes were always mined out and i quit before mobs got materials in their loot table, but i never felt it was hard to craft anything, just hard to get the components. And disregarding the content gaps it wasn't really that bad overall.

As shown, there are exceptions, but usually when you play a game that has a "thought through" crafting game, the overall content usually suffers.

You're basing it all on your own personal view tho! I disagree with both DAoC and Rift. DAoC had a lot more content then Rift, especially considered endgame content. Without the endless farming of bosses in t3 dungeons(rift).

 

[Ctuchik]

You're basing it all on your own personal view tho! I disagree with both DAoC and Rift. DAoC had a lot more content then Rift, especially considered endgame content. Without the endless farming of bosses in t3 dungeons(rift).

Ofc DaoC has more end game content, it's 10 years old! Rift isn't even one year old.

But compare DAoC when it was just released and Rift blows it to high heaven.

And DAoC had boss grinding to, or rather it had ONE boss to grind, namely the dragon in each realm.

Then ofc there's SI, ToA and Catacombs, you're saying they didn't add repetitive dungeon grinds?

And yes it is a personal view/opinion, how else should i put it? I could probably have phrased it better but oh well...

 

[Soazak]

And DAoC had boss grinding to, or rather it had ONE boss to grind, namely the dragon in each realm.

They didn't even have that.

I can remember the dragon zones being released as part of a patch.

I think at release, the top end zones available in Midgard were Vanern swamp and Spindenhella.

I seem to remember albs complaining their dungeons weren't even itemised, as I understood it they basically had no (or very few) 40+ items in game at the time of release..


Times have changed though, wow has brought MMOs into the mainstream, and the mainstream player wont accept a 'beta' like game that is released. They want a fully functioning game with bells and whistles. Imagine if a FPS was released with only half the game content present, the rest promised later as an update Nowadays, if the game isn't totally polished on release, people will simply leave for one of the many other games available, like WAR/AOC...fine games eventually, but people won't return as they have 'tried that and hated it' already.

 

[Chosen]

Ofc DaoC has more end game content, it's 10 years old! Rift isn't even one year old.

But compare DAoC when it was just released and Rift blows it to high heaven.

And DAoC had boss grinding to, or rather it had ONE boss to grind, namely the dragon in each realm.

Then ofc there's SI, ToA and Catacombs, you're saying they didn't add repetitive dungeon grinds?

And yes it is a personal view/opinion, how else should i put it? I could probably have phrased it better but oh well...

Remember that DAoCs main endgame is the RvR part. And saying that SI, ToA and Catacombs is repetitive dungeons is just silly! If you have played Rift and done the t3(t1 raid) dungeons there, you'd understand what repetitive dungeons is.

Getting the items in DAoC is alot easier, and aint that time consuming. So it is usually not required to join that many raids a week to quickly get to the stage, so you can actually start with the endgame DAoC was designed for.

The reason I am saying this, is because DAoC is a game I know alot of the guys here have stuck the longest with! And people are even returning from time to time to this game, over 10 years later. And why do people stick this long to a game, if the endgame is not fulfilling enough?

 

[Ctuchik]

Yes i know the end game in DAoC is RVR.

Getting items in DAoC is a lot easier now yes, but it was insanely hard to get the good stuff in vanilla DAoC as you usually had a few hundred people rolling for the few items that the dragon dropped.

Same with the SI dungeons when that expansion came, there was an enormous interest in that gear as well but as the dungeons were not instanced we had to make the raids FFA to give as many people as possible a chance. So again, it were not rare to have 100 - 200 people show up at the raid meeting place.

DAoC may have fared better due to the RVR endgame, but it still didn't have more playable content at release as RVR were almost the only thing you reliably could do back then unless you filled up the time with crafting.

And i didn't say that the expansions themselves were repetitive dungeons, i'm saying the dungeons that CAME with those expansions are. Are you misinterpreting me on purpose here?

 

[BigE]

vanilla DAoC .. hehe too much time spent on the wow forums

 

[svartalf]

Yes i know the end game in DAoC is RVR.

Getting items in DAoC is a lot easier now yes, but it was insanely hard to get the good stuff in vanilla DAoC as you usually had a few hundred people rolling for the few items that the dragon dropped.

Nobody even TRIED to kill the dragon back in my day. It just didn't seem possible. Not until Shrouded Isles, I think.

If we take a look at what new MMOs have learnt from the mistakes back then... ...GW2 is making it so that everybody is pretty much as powerful as each other in PvP. Lesson: don't make super-powerful excusive items. It seems a little sad to me.

 

[Ctuchik]

Nobody even TRIED to kill the dragon back in my day. It just didn't seem possible. Not until Shrouded Isles, I think.

If we take a look at what new MMOs have learnt from the mistakes back then... ...GW2 is making it so that everybody is pretty much as powerful as each other in PvP. Lesson: don't make super-powerful excusive items. It seems a little sad to me.

Pretty sure we managed to kill mid dragon at least twice just before SI released, but it is a few years ago so i'm not sure at all.

vanilla DAoC .. hehe too much time spent on the wow forums

Yeah, it stuck and won't go away..

 

[Chosen]

Nobody even TRIED to kill the dragon back in my day. It just didn't seem possible. Not until Shrouded Isles, I think.

If we take a look at what new MMOs have learnt from the mistakes back then... ...GW2 is making it so that everybody is pretty much as powerful as each other in PvP. Lesson: don't make super-powerful excusive items. It seems a little sad to me.

We took down the dragon more then once on mid/excal before SI But we needed 7 FGs etc