Stopwatch V MP

[old.nick481]

I prefer the league how it is rather than stopwatch. It gives you more time to prepare your attacks and matches seem to be working well. Sure there may be more draws but the best teams still end up with the most points and it stops the games being over too quick if you have mismatched sides.

Slim
[UC_UK]

 

[feld-hure]

Consversely I prefer SW... mainly because I just do, but I see your point.

Maybe it would be good to have alternating weeks of MP & SW to appeal to everyone ? that'd seem to be the best compromise.

 

[dusustin]

This has been discussed several times before. SW makes the games fair, MP rewards the lesser teams. Defending 15 minutes on base MP is almost impossible even if you are much better then the other team, and SW rules this out by forcing a team to set a time, which the other has to beat.

EBG left BWRTCWL to some degree because of MP, as it is a stupid mode. Hopefully more leagues/ladders and even clans start realizing this, and I finally can see a shift towards that. Next jolt season will probably be SW, and seeing that BWRTCWL i leaning towards that as well, we might join up again for season 2. Removing Tram was a good decision too, so hopefully things are picking up. It's hard work running a league, and requires lots of time, but do as the norwegian rtcw.no league, look towards CAL and the format they are using. CAL is a very popular US league, the rules are great, and it's working very smooth. They ain't throwing in maps or rules noone has played before, but stick to the official ones (except depot), to the satisfactory of the clans that are in the league. They also focus on one map per week, not two.

If time is what is halting you for running 2 ABBA rounds, on one or two maps, why not spread the league dates on 3 days, like sun for div1, mon for div2, tue for div3? In that way, it would allow you to use two maps.

Anyway, if you need more admins, I can offer my help. Seeing this league has shapened up, and that it definately has the potential to become the best euro league there is, just mail me at battlegroup@hotmail.com if you need any help. You can also contact me in IRC, #ebg on ETG. If you feel that it's a step too large to connect to the ETG server, I can also be found in #mortus on quakenet (those fellows are teh shit).

SW = good decision. Keep it up.

 

[old.Hawklans]

I cant see how SW makes the match fair.... both teams still have the same objective and both have the same time to defend/attack....

There are certain maps where sw might be preferable to mp but you cant just come out and say one is fair the other not....

And still at the moment untill there has been a formal poll of the clans involved in this league i dont think there should be any change.

 

[dusustin]

If one clan get both radars on base in 2-3 minutes, and the other has to struggle for 14 minutes, do you consider those two clans to be of equal strength?

 

[nocte]

SW all the way.

just my opinion.

 

[trn]

Yeah I support SW mode. Although 2 days ago we managd to fend off UoA (GG BTW) for the full 15 minutes on Base once, it is always very hard work and very nearly impossible to defend for that amount of time.

On public servers the reason why some people dont like SW is because of the tendancy to have a few quick-loading players to set incredaibly hard to beat times, e.g 1 minite for Sub. But this isn't a prob in the League so it gets my full backing

 

[.cage]

sw is absolutely essential for some maps, and ensures you don't get any stupid draws.

 

[nocte]

also if you look at the BW public servers, the SW servers are nearly always full, which is a very good sign

the only other one that is full is the tram only server (God knows why)

 

[Anduin]

For the record i do prefer MP BUT i also acknowledge i like it for the wrong reasons ie it supports the worse team it gives you an opportunity to claw 1 back as it were and not suffer a total defeat and as such rewarding the weaker clan and so for league games i belive that SW is actually better when you sit down and think about it

My only concern about going SW is by my understanding this means the league will have to be either 4 rounds only 1 map
or no chance for it to be done in reverse (ie 1 clan gets to set but the other doesnt on that map) the only other option is 2 extend the league to run over 3 days or make each "session" longer than an hour about an hour and a half (simple reasoning being 8 rounds 8 mins 8x8 = 64 15*8 = 120)if this is done this makes the league finishing about 11.30 something i think you will agree is rather late
So the question become when the league goes stopwatch a move which i also back to increase fairness which of the above options is going to be taken

1 last thing if the option for a 3day system is implemented may i also suggest you rotate the days as well as the times. Where as i understand this makes it more difficult organising the games you also have to understand it is more difficult for lower clans to organise members on weekdays than on weekends in my experience more members are around on weekends than on weekdays so putting the lower clans on just weekday simply because they are weeker is once again favoring the higher clans a daily rotating scheme would favour clans in no section as such making it fair on all and giving every1 the oportunity to play on a day they choose

Thank you for reading this overly long post

 

[*Kornholio*]

SW gets my vote...

 

[McBastard]

I think it's wrong to think of MP or SW as fair in relation to the other. Simplified, one can say that SW may give a low number of draws, and MP a fairly even distribution of win/loss/draw. In isolated matches, it's easy to think of scenarios that are fair and unfair. Unless you are completely out to eliminate all draws, looking at the results over the past weeks, would indicate that the current setup is quite ok.

[A] The problem seems to arise with MP when maps are rotated and one top team loses points due to playing the bottom team on a map, which favours draws. The other top team may be lucky to play same bottom team on a map, which doesn't favour draws. Using 2 maps per game can diminish this effect though.

Another problems has been of more practical nature, and that is the changing of rules from week to week. It does demand a high level of organisation and skill to manage frequent rule changes without errors and misunderstandings.

If a change to SW in season 2 is made, how is it going to be done is the next question. 1 map per week, ABBAAB or ABBAABBA ? The main benefit would seem to be that is addressed. [A] would live on in a slightly different form, possibly somewhat diminished, as the root cause is map rotation.

I'm not sure that can be properly addressed with the current setup without reducing the number of maps significantly. has caused lots of grievances for me and the ideal world that could be fixed, but that's just a faint dream. Based on the past results, point [A] seems rather insignificant - and it's also difficult to fully address. Streamlined rules seems like quite a bonus though.

 

[old.pii_smith]

im also for sw..
tho what it needs is good thought rules... tbh i rather go with the 1 map solution like in CAL.
my clan is also competing in kuh3liga (german league) and there sw its played but best of 5 on 2 maps.. which is utterly nonsense as it leads to 4 hour matches and also rules like that u get 1 point for map win (so 1 clan winning 3-0 a map and the other clan the 2nd map 3-2 = overall draw) are not well thought

so maybe try to fix some rules beforehand so it can be talked about them and also maybe using the last few weeks of season 1 for testing the rules.. if they are any gud

pii_smith

 

[*Kornholio*]

SW, one map a week, ABBA format... the map rotation should be easier this way - there are 11 weeks in this league, we don't have 22 maps to play... One map a week is also a lot easier to plan for an arrange tictacs etc rather than having to try to get people to remember what they're supposed to be doing on each side of 2 different maps... I think it'll make for more interesting matches...

 

[Anduin]

Originally posted by Kornholio[UC_UK]
One map a week is also a lot easier to plan for an arrange tictacs etc rather than having to try to get people to remember what they're supposed to be doing on each side of 2 different maps

Agreed i think 1 map is the way 2 go esp for lower clans who may find it difficult getting server time to go over tacts

 

[old.pii_smith]

from my expirence a best of 5 stopwatch system makes interesting matches as it gives the opurtunity to even go for different starts in the following offences and defences, it allows to have a lil time to test the out the offence and defence of the other clan.
tho when 2 clans are not properly matched, meaning 1 is much stronger than the other, then it may get a bit harsh. 6 "mp" rounds (as 3 sw rounds the least to win a best of 5) on same map with 1 clan having no chance is hard.
ahh well maybe not much worse than loosing 4 mps rounds like in the current system we have, but at least u can look forward to the next map and pick urself up.

ahh ok thats enuf of my half english and half thought things.

pii_smith

btw McBastard u have really helpful insights and a good writing style

 

[old.Hawklans]

Looks like SW is the favorite from the posts so far...

Cant see this change happening before season 2... to much to change and a bit unfair on the clans who have practised mainly on MP, there is a different style for SW so they should be given a chance to practice fully.

Still think we need a poll of all the clans involved before making such a major change, i know we get alot of posts here, but its usually the same old (or young) faces... so i think its important to find out everyones preference

 

[bigbb]

It wouldn't be changed before Season Two, that's always been said, otherwise it would have been done before. It's just as promised, the discussion has been opened towards Season Two.

The league has been 11 weeks this season because it's had 72 clans, which works out at 36 matches a week, which is what's done now for all clans to play each other in the season. Hence, a 48 clan league next season would be advantageous as well, with a shorter season. With the rate of clans folding it could well be possible.

All good fun though.

 

[old.[SoF]eVo]

I like both SW and MP, but total use of SW mode in ABBA could make matches take a long time and thus the admins job longer and the leagues longer to run etc etc

 

[syk.chak]

Originally posted by [SoF]eVo
but total use of SW mode in ABBA

Surely it can make matches potentially shorter, rather than longer.

 

[.chip]

Stopwatch is more than likely going to happen next season. The only thing the head admins are in need of discussing is the format i.e 1 map ABBABAAB, 1 map ABBA 1 map ABBA or just the 4 SW rounds on 1 map only .. have to see a) how many teams signup for season 2, b) how flexible timeslots are, c) what general feeling is of players.

More news towards start of season 2 i guess

 

[old.-A*Shelak]

2 leagues

1 SW
1 MP

 

[olavski]

now we deffo need SW, another draw because of that shitty time LOL

p.s. 1 league, just SW

 

[old.nick481]

Well if we are going for stopwatch and thats what it looks like, I'd prefer ABBA with the home side setting the time first, and then the visitors setting the time, on 1 map only.

 

[Xtro]

SW imo