Spawn Camping ?

[lynchet]

Im just interested in peoples views on this ?

And what constitutes spawn camping. Ive just been booted from a BY server not for doing this but for argueing that their stance on it is stupid

According to the admin there, if a base has an untakeable flag there is no reason for any enemy soldier to ever enter it. Therefore on the Battle of the Bulge map we were playing it meant that the axis had a safe area and lots of tanks that couldnt be captured, while the allies had neither.

I know it can be annoying to spawn/ be killed/ spawn/ be killed etc --- ive been on the receiving end enough --- but I also know that you usally spawn elsewhere in the base and if you plan can get the camper.

And if you have taken all the enemy flags what are you meant to do, sit back and wait for them to come to you, or press the attack home ?

Oh well just my views -- Im interested to know what others think ?



And of course the real answer ----- more people to play on BW servers ! --- esp not very good people that I can kill - as the Scoobas of this world blow me up every time I see them (and frequently when I havent even seen em )

 

[Scooba Da Bass]

If the opposition have every flag I'd certainly expect to see them rolling into my uncappable base spawn and starting to mow people down, it's simply good tactics.

The only situation in which you possibly couldn't extract yourself is when your base has a tiger sitting on a repair pad, on a public server the chances of getting the co-ordination required to shift it is pretty slim, but remember everything else can be killed by a single rocket aimed onto the rear rectangle of metal between the tracks. If a guy is in a tank get behind the shed, peek round the corner holding down your walk key so he can't hear you and ram a rocket up it, you also better have your pistol handy as you may well have an angry tank driver after you.

 

[.Cask]

That's ridiculous. How can you tell someone how to play? Especially on Battle of the Bulge where the windmill flag is actually overlooking the axis base. What are you meant to do? Look the other way until admins say it's ok to shoot?

I was playin El Alamein a few weeks ago, we'd taken all the flags so I drove over to the Allied base to cause some trouble. Drove down the runway, killed the guys waitin for planes but took some damage so went into the hanger to repair. But while I was in the hanger Allied guys kept throwin grenades, shootin me with tanks and droppin mines everywhere so I just stayed in racking up kills. Then of course allies starting whining for me to get banned, so I had to drive out and get killed so they'd have a chance to get back into the game.

Ok I can understand that, they were getting owned and didn't like it because I was using a cheap tactic. But what if a team was so skilled they could kill you before you even saw them. They're all pinging <10ms and have 100fps and you don't have a fuckin chance of ever killing them. That's not fair either, but what's the admin gonna do? Tell them to stop being so good?

The game already has rules saying what you can and can't do. If ya think they need changing then send EA an email. For admins to start adding their opinions on what's the right and wrong way to play would just be adding area for arguament. Was he spawning camping? Did his finger slip? Maybe he was just lost?

If ya don't like it, don't play. That's my opinion.

 

[TedTheDog]

As a BF n00b I gotta say I'd be most annoyed at being kicked for "spawn camping". I usually have so little situational awareness that I have no idea where I am and I just keeping shooting and running.
Its only after reading this thread that I knew that some bases cant be taken. I mean, I kinda guessed, but now i know.

Played CTF on, erm... kursk? coupla days ago and the enemy took over our base and got several caps because of it. Although i was on the losing side, i thought it was a damned good tactic and took teamwork to achieve.
And when we kicked them back out it felt GOOD because it also took teamwork.

Theres a bit of the nanny in everyone I suspect, and people wanna have rules for things they dont like, rather than rules for things that are wrong.

 

[urz]

I think the problem is that with these uncappable flags, the game keeps going. Other rounds where you can capture all the flags, the score counts down quickly game over - you lose - we all start again. If you are camping in an uncappable base, as an oppressed you spawn, you die, you spawn, you die.... this goes on for about 5 minutes, and there is nothing you can do.

The server I play on implements the following which tends to work.

1. Camping on enemy repair bays is not allowed.
2. You can go into an uncappable base to liberate their hardware only, anyone hanging around is booted.

This allows the oppressed team to at least have an outside chance of getting back in the game, which let's face it, is when all the fun is had.

 

[.Cask]

Originally posted by urz

1. Camping on enemy repair bays is not allowed.
2. You can go into an uncappable base to liberate their hardware only, anyone hanging around is booted.

That sounds like a good system.

As long as it's coded into the game and doesn't rely on an admin to make a decision and take action or not.

These days most players are smart and tanks don't last very long when trying to camp repair pads anyway. So I don't see it being a huge problem. Some map creation tools would be nice so we can start tinkering around and producing much more balanced and interesting maps for this game would be nice too.

 

[cjc1665]

You've got to question repair camping on a public server, the same way that 'nade spamming on stalingrad spoils a public game. Apparently this is ok in a clan match, but then it's the points that count.

I'm sure I read somewhere on EAUK that you weren't allowed to 'vehicle kill' which I assumed is driving into another vehicle or running someone over, both tactics which I quite enjoy.

 

[xane]

Firstly, I consider that the design of the game means spawn camping is in fact a valid tactic.

To second this argument I say that many maps are badly designed to allow this, examples of tank repair pads within range of a flag are bad news, as are grenade spamming points overlooking spawns.

As far as I am concerned I happily admit people running around the base thinking its fun to rack up kills, but in the long run they'll lose the battle because it's one less enemy to defend. I've seen it happen time and time again where a team descend on the enemy base and end up losing the map because someone sneaks out and caps an undefended flag somewhere.

Repair pads, medicabs and ammo points should be disabled for all enemy uncappable bases and ships, plus the maps need tweaking to remove the now obvious exploits.

 

[wildie]

heh

dont play on there servers simple, we no they have muppets for admins so stay off em.

try this one 195.149.21.220 spawn camp till you get bored.

 

[Cdr]

I hate it, I hate it with a passion - not when the nme are doing it to me, because that takes one or more of their tanks out of the battle, but when your own team insist on grabing every tank from your base, rolling it into the uncappable nme base and sitting there, while the nme take all the flags.

This gets right up my nose, and I'll have a go at anyone who does it, as it's wasting the tanks, and it leaves no one (apart from little old me) to defend the 5 or so flags. I've shouted at quite a few people doing this, was almost banned once cos of my 'foul language' (good old admins at BY again).

I think when you have all the flags, then it's only natural to move onto the uncappable base - leaving people to defend the taken flags. However I think this is best done via air strikes, and not sitting a tank on a repair bay, or hiding it in a hanger.

 

[iff_prodigy]

dum realli dum...sure on D-day the german soildiers never thought twice about blasting people the second there landing craft landed on the beach...an dont think the UK/US soilders would have expected it any oher way...
OK so in SOF2 or somethin is kinda anoying...but in 1942... kinda expected...

 

[1tchy trigger]

Originally posted by xane
I consider that the design of the game means spawn camping is in fact a valid tactic.

I completely agree - the openness of the game is one of its strengths

 

[Xtro]

I've always found BY admins to be incompetent muppets at best, the MOHAA ones especially. I politely asked for a heavy TK'er to be kicked and got kicked myself. Eventually found out the admin and TK'er were friends. Heh doesn't suprise me, being told not to swear on a server is enought to put me off anyway.

Nothing like a friendly "oi you f**king w**nker, that's my f**king plane!" to relax

 

[lynchet]

OK I guess I should say that I have since found that I wasnt actually kicked -- the server happened to go down straight after my comments ---- but my points about spawn camping stand -- and I still feel the admin was being very heavy handed telling me I shouldnt discuss something in game ! Freedom of speech anyone

 

[wildie]

you forget its them them said you cant shoot ppl on the way over to the enemy base in q3f, also you cant stop or hinder the enemy for geting too there objective in cs.

hey go read there rules you be laughing for weeks.

 

[Athan]

My Personal View/Rules

There are two problems:

1) You can use any repair hangar/pad, no matter if your team has that area capped or not. THIS NEEDS TO CHANGE. If you don't have the area capped, no repair.

2) A lot of servers don't have a high enough startup delay to get the majority of people into a map in the first round. This makes it way too easy for one side to get the upper hand very quickly. I'm on Athlon XP 1600+@1.4GHz, 512MB PC2100 DDR RAM, ATA100 60GB HD, GF4ti4600, win98, and it takes me at least 1 minute from the 'loading .' to being in the game, and quite often there are 4 or 5 people already playing by then. And, yes, I did defrag recently, doesn't actually seem to help much.

Change point 2 and you have both teams on as even a footing as the map allows (i.e. forget Omaha Beach ever being easy for allies).

Change point 1, with point 2 already been taken care of, and if your no-cap spawn is being camped by the enemy then you only have yourselves to blame.

Oh and, Cdr, yup, totally agree. On big open maps with a BIG uncappable spawn, and planes, rolling off to there with all your heavy vehicles is THE WORST TACTIC IMAGINEABLE. Gazala is really bad for this...

-Ath

 

[Scooba Da Bass]

Re: My Personal View/Rules

Originally posted by Athan
2) A lot of servers don't have a high enough startup delay to get the majority of people into a map in the first round. This makes it way too easy for one side to get the upper hand very quickly. I'm on Athlon XP 1600+@1.4GHz, 512MB PC2100 DDR RAM, ATA100 60GB HD, GF4ti4600, win98, and it takes me at least 1 minute from the 'loading .' to being in the game, and quite often there are 4 or 5 people already playing by then. And, yes, I did defrag recently, doesn't actually seem to help much.

This is a pretty easy to change to make, especially if Nat implements remote console management as I've suggested to him. The 1.3 patch also removes safedisk checking on map reloads which should speed up access for those who haven't already got pissed off and ripped the cd to their HD to avoid the copter sound.

 

[xane]

Re: Re: My Personal View/Rules

Originally posted by Scooba Da Bass
... those who haven't already got pissed off and ripped the cd to their HD to avoid the copter sound.

I've done this and it didn't seem to speed up anything.

 

[Gumbo]

The start up time would halve in your case Athan with another stick of RAM, I saw a 512 2700DDR for 38 quid inc. VAT at the weekend.

However, you shouldn't have to do this i agree, and the reloading of the entire game between maps is stupid, just stupid (like car insurance).

I sort of accidentally ended up with 768mb of RAM, with the rest of my specs being similar to Athan, and I'm virtually always first on the map.

 

[.Cask]

I'd say forget the RAM and get WindowsXP. Then get another HD and stick it on a seperate IDE port, then install bf1942 to that.

I have 512mb SDRAM and I'm always one of the first on a map.

I refuse to claim responsibility for wasted money however

 

[.Cask]

Oh and planes are too damn easy to fly!! I suck and I still hit my bombing targets 70% of the time on the first run.

When did they invent stinger missiles because these would be great for stopping planes using their instant "I win!" buttons. Or make them more prone to small arms fire, a few bullets from an SG-44 into the engine really can't be good for those things.

Even better, get me appointed as chief of the bf1942 project at EA Offices and I'll replace all planes with a rickey old bathtub model that is confined to the small rivers on certain maps. Weaponry will include shampoo cannon, steam smoke screen and a plastic fish that fires bursts of pressurised soapy water at the unclean enemies.

Now that would rock!

 

[Dr_Weasel]

Or they should make everyone fly using the keyboard. I dont have a joystick and I cant fly for shite

 

[adams901]

I was nearly kicked from the BY server, I was bombing the enemy base in my plane when I was shot down, naturally I ejected and parachuted into the enemy base. As I was walking towards a jeep the admin started screaming at me saying no camping in the enemy base or you will be kicked.

What he expected me to do I dont know, but I sure as hell wasn't going to kill myself just because I had been shot down over an uncappable base.

My opinion of BY Admins isnt very high and I suspect the vast majority of them are aged about 15 and are on some kind of power trip.

 

[Cdr]

I was on that server Adams, and I remember it well.

Dirty low down cheater I tells ya

j/k

The thing about BY is it's kinda like a mens club, without the men. If you've not hung around in their irc channel from day one, and you're not part of their little group and partake in Online Incest (if that's possible), then you're never gonna get a fair deal. Unfortunately cos BY spawned from Wireplay, which always had the feeling of being a close community (mainly cos it was a closed gaming arena), where you knew almost everyone on the server you were playing, it's only natural for them to carry on this into the public domain.

They don't seem to embrace new people well, and they certainly don't make you feel welcome.

'This is a local GSP for local people'

 

[adams901]

LOL how could I forget you were on that server, I remember the sweet loving words you were sending Nam

 

[Athan]

Comments about 'upgrading' appreciated lads, but I'm on a *TIGHT* budget, and I was posting the specs more to show I had a reasonable machine and server admins should be catering to such.

Now, what's the bets the repair pads/hangars thing never gets changed ?

-Ath

 

[xane]

Originally posted by adams901
What he expected me to do I dont know, but I sure as hell wasn't going to kill myself just because I had been shot down over an uncappable base.

They were a bit trippy over Coral Sea last time I played, constantly threatening people over landing on the enemy carrier.

I got shot down and ejected, I was accused of camping whilst in the water !

Spawn camping would be considerably reduced if they disabled ammo, medicabs and repair points on uncappable bases and ships for the enemy, if someone can camp under those conditions then I salute them.

 

[xane]

Originally posted by .Cask
Or make them more prone to small arms fire, a few bullets from an SG-44 into the engine really can't be good for those things.

Actually things changed in the last patch and small arms fire is now considerably more effective against aircraft now, especially the engine. In fact I believe they are reducing damage effect from small arms in the next patch.

 

[adams901]

My View on repair points and hangers remains the same as it always has. You can't continously repair with an engineer, once his charge has run out you have to wait for him to recharge before he can continue, I believe the repair points and hangers should operate the same way. I also believe they should only recharge when they are vacant. (example: you drive your damaged tank onto the repair point, the repair point uses all its charge repairing you and will only start to recharge itself once you have moved off it).

 

[xane]

Originally posted by Dr_Weasel
I dont have a joystick and I cant fly for shite

I do have a joystick, with Z-axis grip and a throttle, but still can't fly for shite either.