Sorc/BW aoe's need a nerf - PRONTO

Bugz

Fledgling Freddie
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A keep is simply untakeable if you have 3-4 sorcs inside and a well formed tank wall.

Hell, 5-6 sorcs and you don't even need the tank wall.

The aoe is simply overpowered.
 

Lollie

Loyal Freddie
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Jan 23, 2004
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its not the aoe thats a mess, its the crit bonus they get thro high combust/backlash, they should get rid of the whole mechanic imo
 

Belisar

One of Freddy's beloved
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Sep 20, 2004
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Whatever the reason it needs looking at.

Not only for keep takes either. Seen it used in scens as well where it was cast bang outside the spawn point and so by the time you had got through it you were easy pickings.
 

Grotnob

Fledgling Freddie
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But, as Mythic have said, it's a case of weighing up how much fun they're having playing their Bright Wizards against how much fun they think anyone playing the other side is having.

Not sure how combustion backlash (or the sorc equivalent) works with focused and maintainedc GTAoE. Do you have a chance to to boom every second, or is it a chance to go boom when you first cast the spell, and then you're safe for the duration?

If it's the latter, it needs to be the former to stop people spamming it.
 

TheBinarySurfer

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Touching the backlash mechanic or lowering the dps at this point would be plain silly.

The AoE mechanic just needs to be altered so that you can never be stood in more than 2 AoE focus spells at one time. Problem solved then?

I'm sure a big chunk of the problem is people being lemmings and just running through/standing in AoE's as if they still had 75% resists. I see it all the time on my BW. My RoF is static, my Annihilate is static. If you move it's 10 seconds before my next one - which you can in turn interrupt with stun/silence etc (assuming i was CC immune beforehand). You can almost always get out of an AoE after 1 tic, 2 maximum.
 

civy

One of Freddy's beloved
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Touching the backlash mechanic or lowering the dps at this point would be plain silly.

The AoE mechanic just needs to be altered so that you can never be stood in more than 2 AoE focus spells at one time. Problem solved then?

I'm sure a big chunk of the problem is people being lemmings and just running through/standing in AoE's as if they still had 75% resists. I see it all the time on my BW. My RoF is static, my Annihilate is static. If you move it's 10 seconds before my next one - which you can in turn interrupt with stun/silence etc (assuming i was CC immune beforehand). You can almost always get out of an AoE after 1 tic, 2 maximum.

That would be true if the game wasnt such a resource dog. Alot run the game on min settings and cant even see the AE.
 

Gahn

Resident Freddy
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Touching the backlash mechanic or lowering the dps at this point would be plain silly.

The AoE mechanic just needs to be altered so that you can never be stood in more than 2 AoE focus spells at one time. Problem solved then?

I'm sure a big chunk of the problem is people being lemmings and just running through/standing in AoE's as if they still had 75% resists. I see it all the time on my BW. My RoF is static, my Annihilate is static. If you move it's 10 seconds before my next one - which you can in turn interrupt with stun/silence etc (assuming i was CC immune beforehand). You can almost always get out of an AoE after 1 tic, 2 maximum.

The problem is deepest really.
IMO
A) all Aoes need fall over reduction ala Daoc Pbaoe.
B) get rid of Crit on Aoe.
C) give a graphic for fastest framerate settings on Aoe.
 

TheBinarySurfer

Can't get enough of FH
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I agree about the graphics option. However:

While Conflag sounds like a "wtfpwn specline" it's actually very frustrating - you can't burn down charging mdps/tanks/rdps/healers - all you can do is dump your aoe's onto a cluster of enemies and hope someone else puts some spike damage onto one of the targets you are weakening.

In short, you trade ALL your single target dps and utility for raw AoE damage. Conflag spec BW's cannot burn down charging tanks/casters/rdps/mdps etc. Our tactics are wrong for it and we lack the key spells for this (i can go into more depth about why this is so but will mean talking in-depth about optimum/decent/low dps spell rotations and cooldowns which i'm sure is sufficiently boring nobody wants to know it!).

The removal of crit on AoE spells would make every, single BW spec out of Conflag since we sacrifice all our high-value single-target dps spells to get the most out of that specline.

Also, it would only be fair to remove Crit chance from tank AoE's - which i think would not be good for the careers in question.

The only way to do it would be to significantly boost the baseline damage. (effectively boosting it to weak-crit level damage permenantly). This however, would not solve the problem of stacking AoE's which i repeat is the key problem here.

I remain convinced that having it so that targets within the overlap radius between 2 AoE spells only take the highest value damage out of the 2 spells. Maybe the highest 2 if we're talking the above paragraph.

The current problem is not that RoF/Pit kills people on it's own (it doesn't unless you stand in it for the full duration and get some significant additional damage from another player on you), but that 2-3-4 RoF's/Pits are often stacked resulting in 2-4k+ damage per second depending upon crits.

Additional:Stacking toughness now has a good degree of effectiveness against spell damage. Get resists to 40%, and then boost toughness up as high as you can for maximum mitigation. All the reports i'm reading say about 800 toughness is the magic number.
 

Gahn

Resident Freddy
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My point was that Aoe should be a utility spell not the Dmg line really.
 

Tallen

Fledgling Freddie
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My point was that Aoe should be a utility spell not the Dmg line really.

This is the first realistic and sensible suggestion i have read tbh.

It would require a significant rewoking of the two classes, but it would seem to make a lot of sense.

Have a cookie :)
 

TheBinarySurfer

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My point was that Aoe should be a utility spell not the Dmg line really.

Interesting, but this would go somewhat against the theory of the BW being a "glass cannon" as at high RR (60+) you can spec 2 lines with reasonable success in both.

A glass cannon with good utility might be too much to handle. I'd love to see a CC/Debuff/Buff tree for the BW though - say similar to the WP's buff where you place a debuff on a target that means it takes more melee/magic damage etc. Perhaps an aoe wounds/toughness debuff (give the sorc the equiv to be fair too) and a ranged AoE snare (similar to mana-eld in daoc). A nearsight debuff (much weaker than DAOC's though as it was very OP) added to both sorc and BW would be excellent for counter-caster in keep seiges and small group fights alike.

Problem is then that you'd have to either remove the abilities (which will make the game even more tank focused than it is) in the conflag tree, or merge them into other spell lines which would mean a whole fresh cycle of balancing.

Good suggestion, but i cant see mythic doing it considering other classes have way more pressing issues (shaman/AM, WP/DoK healing nerf, SM, Magus etc).
 

rynnor

Rockhound
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This thread is pure daoc - I imagine the same things will happen in WAR - after a period of dominance it will be nerfed.

In theory the best idea would perhaps be to stop overlap so that players cant be affected by multiples at the same time but my worry on that would be the overhead on the server from this.

I imagine the nerf will be most likely a reduction in its dps and or a boost to resists again.
 

Lollie

Loyal Freddie
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cant understand why they cant just apply the way the engineer napalm works to pos/rof
 

Tallen

Fledgling Freddie
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cant understand why they cant just apply the way the engineer napalm works to pos/rof

Napalm is a ramping fnf aoe GT dot, you can set the GT same as PoS or RoF and you don't need LOS to use it.

Not sure what your point here is in particular but i'd be interrested to hear it.
 

Reno

One of Freddy's beloved
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You forgot to add the last part of the spell descriptions: only the most powerfull napalm will do damage.
I'm guessing that Lollie was thinking about that part.

Danita
 

Lollie

Loyal Freddie
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You forgot to add the last part of the spell descriptions: only the most powerfull napalm will do damage.
I'm guessing that Lollie was thinking about that part.

Danita

what he said :)
 

Ctuchik

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You forgot to add the last part of the spell descriptions: only the most powerfull napalm will do damage.
I'm guessing that Lollie was thinking about that part.

Danita

its the same with Magis dissolving mist. and its quite frustrating tbh. it basically makes more then 1 magus specced in changing worthless in keep sieges as only 1 will do damage at any given time when the enemy is at the doors. mostly because all our changing spells only have a 65 yard range bar 1 channeled DoT that has 100 yard range and is quite pants imo..

so if ur sat at a keep wall u bet we cant use anything but dissolving mist around the keep doors. because no other spell we spec in has the range to engage anything else. and trying to use a spell that has what, effecting lvl of 28? is just gonna make the enemy laugh at you.

and yes i know the same is true for engineers specced in grenades.
 

Tallen

Fledgling Freddie
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You forgot to add the last part of the spell descriptions: only the most powerfull napalm will do damage.
I'm guessing that Lollie was thinking about that part.

Danita

Ahh, gotcha :)
 

Santa's little helper

Fledgling Freddie
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Dec 22, 2003
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I'll be the bad guy, and point at the tanks.

How much fun do you think it is, to sit inside a castle and do nothing.. You can't defend shit...

Don't complain about range, magus ;). Atleast you have some!
 

Ctuchik

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I'll be the bad guy, and point at the tanks.

How much fun do you think it is, to sit inside a castle and do nothing.. You can't defend shit...

Don't complain about range, magus ;). Atleast you have some!

ooh thats a valid point. i shouldn't complain because tanks are tanks.....




:clap::clap::clap:
 

BloodOmen

I am a FH squatter
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Jan 27, 2004
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Have to agree with sorc aoe like, it is stupidly overpowered, the amount of rr70+ sorcs can pretty much acount for that much "aoe aoe aoe aoe aoe hey look at me i'm rr80 and very skilled at spamming one spell" its like wizards from daoc all over again :p

Can't speak for BW's play order now and not had the liberties of being hit by them at 40 so no idea what they're like.
 

Mabs

J Peasemould Gruntfuttock
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this could go one of two ways to be brutally honest, its either

"working as intended" , or if were -really- lucky, "tabled - need specifics"

:cheers::(
 

Flimgoblin

It's my birthday today!
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Exactly the same as sorcs.

but with 50% more radius.

Do sorcs get an equivalent to wildfire?

(I know sorcs get a tactic to make it knockback - which while nice in some situations isn't so good for just doing lots of damage ;) imagine it's funny inside keeps though - pinging people off of walls...)
 

`mongoose

One of Freddy's beloved
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I think the main issue is the double boost. With the nerf to resists BW and Sorcs were already going to see an improvement in damage done. Throw in the "fixes" that were done and you see an exponential effect. The fact that so many BW have "sacrificed" all their "high dmg" spells for one aoe highlights the imbalance imo.

I'm pretty shocked that 1.2 came through as quickly as it did when I look at the pure carnage it has caused amongst many classes. From a destro point of view it's like an overnight plague has wiped out witch elves and marauders. They've gone from popular to rare overnight. Marauders are so rare in oRVR these days you'd think they were a tome unlock!

On a personal note - I'll be happy for BW and Sorc AOE to retain it's current damage and spec ability if my marauder can do similar damage from his aoe :)

Oh that would be fun. Brief, but fun.

M
 

Popov

Fledgling Freddie
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On a personal note - I'll be happy for BW and Sorc AOE to retain it's current damage and spec ability if my marauder can do similar damage from his aoe :)

They did that already, it's called "reroll Choppa" ;)
 

Ctuchik

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one way to solcve this would be to give tanks a "spell reflect" anility ala WoW :)


THATS some really fun shit there, see a caster load up some bigass nuke, pop spell reflect, and watch said caster kill himself :)


imagine that in a keep siege with 10+ tanks popping that on AE's :p


i'd say that would make sorcs and BW's be a tad more causious as to where and when they should use the AE's :) and probably mean more of them respeccing to other trees.

because right now AE whoring at keep sieges is pretty much the only reason theres so fucking many of em.

was in a keep siege the other day and there were almost as many sorcs around then any other class, COMBINED! and we had almost 3 warbands at that keep. i bet they could have filled atleast 1 with sorcs only.

and i suspect the same is true for the ammount of BW's from time to time.
 

TheBinarySurfer

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one way to solcve this would be to give tanks a "spell reflect" anility ala WoW :)

Provided it's on a long RUT, with a short duration i'd have no objection to this. Having something that was on a CD of less than 1 minute would just make it completely pointless to have a dps caster as in any seige there are plenty of tanks so AE would just kill you every time.

For the love of god though people (XXI my hats off to you for being the ONLY group who's used this on my BW so far), TAUNT the caster nuking you (when they are in LoS of course). Taunt (of which all tanks have 2) gives a 100% disrupt/interrupt on any channeled spell. Hit the caster channelling PoS / RoF on the first tic, it's 20 seconds until the next 1.

Oh yeah and stop farming my poor low RR SM in scs damnit! (21)
 

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