Sooo... Here's a trillion euros, don't spend it all at once.

[DaGaffer]

I just worked out that's just over 2 grand for every man, woman and child in the Eurozone. Will most of us see any of it? Will we fuck.

Instead of just printing money for hedge funds to hoover up, it would have been nice to actually give it to the people, maybe with a caveat that you have to spend it within 12 months or they take it back through the tax system.

 

[Scouse]

That's too damn keynsian for the politicos tho eh?

That money is for the rich.

Our politicians are the reverse of robin hood...

 

[Wij]

2 grand's worth of pork scratchings for every person. Problems gone.

 

[old.Tohtori]

If it went to something beneficial to all, like inftrastucture, schooling, whatnot to help folks then i wouldn't mind giving up "my" 2k.

Chances of that happening are equal to FH having an argument free day though

 

[Ormorof]

think of the inflation if everyone got 2k extra to spend all at once, then the crash of deflation after its all done

 

[DaGaffer]

think of the inflation if everyone got 2k extra to spend all at once, then the crash of deflation after its all done

That's actually the whole point! The eurozone is suffering from deflation right now.

It's supposed to be a stimulus package to kickstart the economy but the experience from Quantative Easing in the UK, US and Japan is that it's made already rich people a lot richer. There was the opportunity to try something different in the EU.

 

[Raven]

If they gave it to the people the money would funnel up, people would be happy with 2k to spank on goodies, shops would be happy with selling said goodies, distributors and manufacturers would be happy and finally the same hedge fund managers would be happy their investments are doing well.

It makes zero sense not giving it to the people.

 

[Embattle]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-30943216

This was a great two part investigation about inequality - http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episodes/b04xw4rw

 

[Moriath]

As been said trickle down economics doesn't work and it's been proved with QE before. The rich money stays mostly in the rich circles. Buying investment cars and stuffs like that.

Need the money to be put into infrastructure projects so the people get paid for working on them and the money works it's way through the populous.

 

[Billargh]

What?

 

[Raven]

As been said trickle down economics doesn't work and it's been proved with QE before. The rich money stays mostly in the rich circles. Buying investment cars and stuffs like that.

Need the money to be put into infrastructure projects so the people get paid for working on them and the money works it's way through the populous.

I think what you mean to say is, they have tried just pumping more money into the economy for rich people to snaffle up and it didn't work.

Japan tried it and it worked up to a point.

 

[Moriath]

What?

Trickle down economics. Give the money to the rich and they are supposed to spend it then where they spend it gives the money to the staff etc and gradually the wealth trickles down to the poorest. As was tried with quantatative easing except it didn't work. The wealthy invested their cash in the things QE supported and they got richer. But mostly spent the money they earned on investment type objects, cars, art, jewels, etc. so the money circulated the rich markets but never trickled down to the poor.

Watch those documentarys that embattle linked.

What they need to do is put the money into big public works projects, where the goods needed for it go to companies that pay taxes and their staff. Along with the employment boost of those who are directly needed to work on said projects. Like kick start hs2 or something.

 

[Raven]

And the less than wealthy bought a new TV or a holiday and had a smile for a few days, the rich still got rich.

I don't think those that spend money on art and crap give a toss about 2 grand. People who don't know how they are going to pay the gas bill would fucking love 2k.

Still the money funnels up, simple economics. It just stops at a few more places on its way.

As it is now, they are going to drop 2trillion into the economy, every last cent of that will be hoovered up by rich people, not a single cent will have any benefit to the non rich and the economy will stay the same.

I think they are actually just trolling now, the only thing that is going to change society is an armed uprising.

 

[Moriath]

And the less than wealthy bought a new TV or a holiday and had a smile for a few days, the rich still got rich.

I don't think those that spend money on art and crap give a toss about 2 grand. People who don't know how they are going to pay the gas bill would fucking love 2k.

Still the money funnels up, simple economics. It just stops at a few more places on its way.

As it is now, they are going to drop 2trillion into the economy, every last cent of that will be hoovered up by rich people, not a single cent will have any benefit to the non rich and the economy will stay the same.

I think they are actually just trolling now, the only thing that is going to change society is an armed uprising.

Exactly. The top one percent had their wealth increase over the last seven years where as mostly everyone else got poorer.

 

[Job]

A trillion..and how exactly is that not going to entirely fuk the eurozone on every level...printing money is the last resort...like throwing the engines off a plane to keep it flying.

 

[SilverHood]

I'm loving it. Cheap European holidays.... happy days

 

[Moriath]

I'm loving it. Cheap European holidays.... happy days

For everyone

 

[DaGaffer]

A trillion..and how exactly is that not going to entirely fuk the eurozone on every level...printing money is the last resort...like throwing the engines off a plane to keep it flying.

Like Japan did? Like the US did? Like the UK did? Printing money when you've got inflation problems is a seriously bad idea, but when you're in negative growth, your currency is at a historic high, deflation, and you've got swingeing austerity measures (that have only worked in one country in the whole eurozone), then printing money makes sense, if its circulated the right way.

 

[Moriath]

Like Japan did? Like the US did? Like the UK did? Printing money when you've got inflation problems is a seriously bad idea, but when you're in negative growth, your currency is at a historic high, deflation, and you've got swingeing austerity measures (that have only worked in one country in the whole eurozone), then printing money makes sense, if its circulated the right way.

Which it usually isnt

 

[Scouse]

Turns out the Greek Finance Minister is a Star Trek fan...

I agree @DaGaffer - the new Star Trek is broken - because it doesn't speak in these sorts of terms any more.

Anyway - turns out this marxist wants to save capitalism. I'm about 15 minutes in to a lecture he gave in 2013 and he's interesting and engaging. May as well invest some of my intellectual time into seeing what sort of things the man that may be responsible for the collapse of the Eurozone (and therefore world economy) has to say for himself.

Ex-academic turned politico. Worth a watch if you give a monkeys about economics. Well, not just economics. If you give a monkeys, period.

 

[Tuthmes]

Money (or wealth) should be distributed evenly among society. Anyone against this idea is a selfish prick and should fkoff to his own island.

 

[Lakih]

Money (or wealth) should be distributed evenly among society. Anyone against this idea is a selfish prick and should fkoff to his own island.

I'd freaking love to have my own island! (And the funds/infrastructure/whatever to run it)

 

[Job]

I find money very intriguing, what is the force that gives it worth?
Is it a fundamental law of reality that the human mind has tapped into?

 

[Moriath]

Money (or wealth) should be distributed evenly among society. Anyone against this idea is a selfish prick and should fkoff to his own island.

Like Richard Branson

 

[Moriath]

I find money very intriguing, what is the force that gives it worth?
Is it a fundamental law of reality that the human mind has tapped into?

It's the acceptance by society that it has worth. Without that acceptance the piece of paper in your hand is worthless.

Generally it says the Bank of England will pay the bearer five pounds of gold. But that's never going to happen.

Which is why you need to keep public faith in your currency or your fucked.

It's a made up construct that is convenient and doesn't reauire you to trade chickens for potatoes

 

[SilverHood]

If you have not read Atlas Shrugged...
Francisco’s Money Speech
http://capitalismmagazine.com/2002/08/franciscos-money-speech/

“So you think that money is the root of all evil?” said Francisco d’Anconia. “Have you ever asked what is the root of money? Money is a tool of exchange, which can’t exist unless there are goods produced and men able to produce them. Money is the material shape of the principle that men who wish to deal with one another must deal by trade and give value for value. Money is not the tool of the moochers, who claim your product by tears, or of the looters, who take it from you by force. Money is made possible only by the men who produce. Is this what you consider evil?

 

[old.Tohtori]

Money (or wealth) should be distributed evenly among society. Anyone against this idea is a selfish prick and should fkoff to his own island.

Great, gimme half of your moneys

 

[caLLous]

Money (or wealth) should be distributed evenly among society. Anyone against this idea is a selfish prick and should fkoff to his own island.

What's that? There's money in your account? You have assets? You have a lot more than a lot of other people? Oh... right...

 

[Scouse]

Money is a tool of exchange, which can’t exist unless there are goods produced and men able to produce them. Money is the material shape of the principle that men who wish to deal with one another must deal by trade and give value for value

Except that's no longer true is it.

I'd be interested to hear from anyone who's bothered to watch the video I've posted. You don't need to watch the whole thing - he stops his lecture at 55 minutes.

If you can't be arsed to sit through 55 mins of that I don't think you're seriously interested in current affairs, proper intellectual discourse on economics or the forces that shape your day to day life.

Which is fair enough. You don't have to be. In many ways you shouldn't have to be...

 

[Raven]

What we need to do is come up with some sort of system of exchange where any services or produce you create are tradable for some sort of token that you can then use to trade with other people for their products and services. Be it time, skills or a physical product.

...wait a minute!

There is nothing wrong with money and there is nothing wrong with having lots of it, there is however lots wrong with the system of lending and borrowing and international banking. There are also huge problems with the weak being exploited by the strong...but that is not something unique to humans or even mammals. Perhaps that is where we need to start.

Even in some sort of unicorn infested social utopia there would still be rich people because of supply and demand and even then, those not willing to contribute to a society or help that society would have to be removed or given less until they do contribute, it would be unworkable if not, society would physically brake down. You simply could not have half the population working their tits off to provide for the other half with no return.