Something to Chew On

[Ctuchik]

The main advantage that Shamans and Bards can have over Friars when healing is not the power of their heals, but that they don't have to recover from being in Melee before they can start.

Not commenting on their relative power, just the healing part.

Darzil

acually, as a shammy ur main objective is not healing.. infact, many rvr shamans dont even have their heal on their main QB. a shamans primary task is to interrupt enemy casters, root as much as they can and DoT/disease.. if a shammy is forced to start healing, something is going very wrong and that middy groups is most likly loosing the battle...

a shammys healing is not very power effective, as most rvr shammys only specc 4 mend. so the power drain is HUGE. No, a shammy is WAY more effective as a secondary CC'er or dot/disease bot..

as ive said, if a shammy is forced to start healing, its a good sign that they are about to loose...

 

[Ctuchik]

have you met a hib bodyguard/grapple caster group?

well, BG isnt really a caster only benefit tho.. its helping all the classes just as much as casters..

same with grapple..

 

[Driwen]

well, BG isnt really a caster only benefit tho.. its helping all the classes just as much as casters..

same with grapple..

uhm a tank who is getting bg'ed doubles his hp a caster who is getting bg'ed multiplies his hp by 4 or more(assuming also higher af and block/evade/parry)?
So for casters BG is more useful than for other classes.

 

[Ormorof]

well, BG isnt really a caster only benefit tho.. its helping all the classes just as much as casters..

same with grapple..

well BG doesnt work very well in tank groups (i mean, whats the point of one tank atking aggro instead of another? theyre all meatshields after all )

whereas in a caster group it allows the caster to be uninterupted unless the other group has some damage other than tanks, and if they are the fotm (well before ToA anyway ) tank groups with 4 tanks, 3 healers and a shammy, they only have shammy for ranged damage, which isnt really enough

 

[Afuldan]

Wow! so many posts! I feel loved.

So many things to respond to too...

First off, I'd like to say, this was a thoughtful post, not one demeaning anybody, so please don't post anything negative here. If I'm off a bit, then tell me, don't tell me what a st00p1d n00b I am, because then I'm just gonna ignore you. I hate people with the "I am right and all opposers must die" attitude.

I openly admit to not knowing everything. I am solely a Hibby, with a lil mid on the side from my days on mordred (50 warrior rr4 50 sb rr6). What I say here is what I have seen while dealing with other realms, and if you want me to be perfectly honest, on my home server albion doesn't give a shit about it's versatility problems, they just use radar all the time and roll in zergs of 5g or more. I know this may not be true everywhere, which is why i didn't make an issue of it, I mean, for all i know you guys ARE vastly underpowered, I can't count how many times I've been out there alone and it took 2+ fg albs to kill me.

Secondly; Lol Ez ^^

Third, the point I was making was not that none of the realms are underpowered, it was that they ARE underpowered, but each in it's own way. What fun would it be if each realm was exactly the same?

 

[Spear]

acually, as a shammy ur main objective is not healing.. infact, many rvr shamans dont even have their heal on their main QB. a shamans primary task is to interrupt enemy casters, root as much as they can and DoT/disease.. if a shammy is forced to start healing, something is going very wrong and that middy groups is most likly loosing the battle...

a shammys healing is not very power effective, as most rvr shammys only specc 4 mend. so the power drain is HUGE. No, a shammy is WAY more effective as a secondary CC'er or dot/disease bot..

as ive said, if a shammy is forced to start healing, its a good sign that they are about to loose...

I believe you are making my point for me that the other two realms primary and secondary healers have alot more versatility than a Friar. If a friar is engaged in combat there is no way they can heal so the ability is wasted, a shaman, bard, would stand at the back anyway so can cast if needed. Plus they get base line CC abilities that alb don't on their healing classes.

My main point here is that the healing classes in alb lack CC abilities that the other two realms have which means ALL alb groups need to have 1 spot for healer and 1 spot for a Sorc which causes long waits at the PK or Zerging.

 

[Maleg]

Depending on the changes Mythic make every realm has it's days of being overpowered. While RvR is mainly FG centric Alb is at a disadvantage, however come NF Alb appear to be doing very well on a lot of servers due to population and range advantage. Albs are most likely still disadvantaged in open RvR, but since 80%+ seems Keep orientated that doesn't matter so much.

 

[civy]

Hey, Civy.

DAOC is by no means a caster game and has been evolving away from casters for quite some time.

We are talking about the same game? The one by Mythic?

 

[Tuppe]

on all Europe servers there are only 2 albion guilds in the top 20. Now seeing as many gamers like to mast all aspects of a game lot of people will play all three reams (bit hard for us to do wit only 2 server but german and french speaking people can) you would think that it would balence itself out a bit more. Playing on Albion i have noticed a few of guild from other server/realms migrate over in large numbers only to leave a few month latter.

check RL10 situation, how many from realms.
i know atleast prydwen albs had 1st rl10 and still havemore rl10:s what mids, hibs beat allso mids in rl10 chars.
maybe you find here reason why alb guild suck so badly? what they in my eyes dont do, there is several good guilds from albs, and hibs, and mids.
give bad taste on mouth when someone from alb is making own realm bad comparing other and how hard they fight every time to be competitive against other, TRUE MARTYRS, bs simply.

 

[Ctuchik]

I believe you are making my point for me that the other two realms primary and secondary healers have alot more versatility than a Friar. If a friar is engaged in combat there is no way they can heal so the ability is wasted, a shaman, bard, would stand at the back anyway so can cast if needed. Plus they get base line CC abilities that alb don't on their healing classes.

My main point here is that the healing classes in alb lack CC abilities that the other two realms have which means ALL alb groups need to have 1 spot for healer and 1 spot for a Sorc which causes long waits at the PK or Zerging.

hmm yea, sorry about that. kinda missed ur point there

 

[Ctuchik]

well BG doesnt work very well in tank groups (i mean, whats the point of one tank atking aggro instead of another? theyre all meatshields after all )

whereas in a caster group it allows the caster to be uninterupted unless the other group has some damage other than tanks, and if they are the fotm (well before ToA anyway ) tank groups with 4 tanks, 3 healers and a shammy, they only have shammy for ranged damage, which isnt really enough

bleh, i shouldent try to make any sensible posts when im tired here

 

[Tuppe]

some compare main healers and secondary healers, comparing is hard to do because healer and shammy is sitting on 1 spec point per lvl (40+ 0.5 extra) healer is mids main cc, main healer and second resist line, all these 3 different lines.
shammy is mids main buffer/second resists, main dot line (cave) secondary healer.

these 2 classes offer mids 3 very important lines, and get only 1 spec point.

how shammy, what have aeroot, offer group atleast end reg 4 and can still heal is played reality in rvr? forget heals, he aeroot if need, dot/disease and do other jobs.
healers? usually gankgroup is build around 3 healers, 1 cc specced, 1 for 2nd resists/celerity, 1 for healing.
all 3 healers can heal atleast whit baseline, usually atleast 2 have 1st spread, 3rd maybe sitting whit baselines.

personally see hard to compare clerics/friars and shammy/healers.
seer classes in all 3 realms have usually only 1 line they sharing, sometimes dont even that.

 

[Flimgoblin]

Clerics and Druids are a PRIMARY buffing class tho. Healers are not. Aug healers are useful but that means low pac and mend. A decent Mid group needs 1 Pac Healer, 1 Mend Healer and 1 Aug Shaman to do heals, buffs and CC. An Alb one needs 1 Rejuv Cleric, 1 Enhance Cleric and 1 Sorc to do the same three things. I can't be arsed figuring out the Hib version

Pac Healer <> Mend Healer.

Sure a Pac Healer can heal A BIT... but a sorc can damage a bit too.

Stlong Alb Whin0rz

*don flame-protection suit*

Thing is:
Pac/mend healer = CC + spreadheal + instas (more than "A BIT" of healing)
mend/pac healer = heals +instas + some CC
Shaman = boofs+end regen+backup CC

in alb you get:
enh/rejuv cleric = heals + boofs
rejuv/enh cleric = heals + boofs
sorc = CC + damage

Now if it wasn't for buffbots then the shaman would be sacrificing his spec buff slots to do the endurance regen, and both of the clerics buffing abilities would actually be useful...

but as it is the shaman won't have many spec buffs on people (field buffs only) and neither will the two clerics in the alb group...
so you get

heals/cc, cc/heals, endregen/cc
versus
heals, heals, cc

three chars capable of CC (one primary, two secondary) two chars capable of healing and some endregen on top for fun
versus
two chars capable of healing and one char capable of CC - if the sorc is interrupted/killed then theres no CC... meanwhile if the pac healer is interrupted/killed then there's still two CCers left.

You see the albion problem - yes we have the same abilities as the other two realms (apart from decent insta CC but we supposedly have been recompensed for that) just it's spread over umpteen classes...

There is one overlap in albion - crap damage, just about every alb class has a major in something with a minor in crap damage. Heck look at the wizard, he has Damage backed up by crap damage in a second spec

Meanwhile hib/mid have lots of utility/utility classes and damage/utility classes meaning if you pick 8 of them from those available you're far more likely to have something useful in the group

 

[Flimgoblin]

some compare main healers and secondary healers, comparing is hard to do because healer and shammy is sitting on 1 spec point per lvl (40+ 0.5 extra) healer is mids main cc, main healer and second resist line, all these 3 different lines.

Clerics and Sorcerers are also on 1.0 spec points...

or have you been reading stories about the spec DDing spec dotting, aoe rooting aoe mezzing pot 5 unmezzable determination-chanting sorcs?

 

[Cracked]

I think its hard to compare the casters of the different realms, who is the better one.

Albs have Sorcerers who in my opinon is TEH best lifetapper of them all, simply because they get it in the baseline and they have more utility. A great class imo.

Hib have their advantage with the baseline stun and more pbae then the other realms.

Wish that mid casters also had some cool baseline stuff!

Mid's spiritmaster have a very nice pet and the runemasters have some nice utils also.

Still wish mid had Sorcs and Eldrich rather then the SM and Runie.

 

[Flimgoblin]

Still wish mid had Sorcs and Eldrich rather then the SM and Runie.

Swap you the wizard for the SM if you want

 

[Bunnytwo]

check RL10 situation, how many from realms.
i know atleast prydwen albs had 1st rl10 and still havemore rl10:s what mids, hibs beat allso mids in rl10 chars.

Yep, but again that doesn't give a correct picture in itself. Might have had first rr10 char on. But when you have more than one person playing one char that char is gonna rack up the rps a lot quicker than average.

You would also need to consider (which you can't really) the proportion and duration of use of BBs in the game etc.

Basically stats are gonna be very limited use in themselves.