Something to Chew On

[Afuldan]

Hmmm. I was sitting here, reading the Daily Bickering (A thread I had started earlier), and I had an epiphany.

Now forgive me if I'm a little late on the uptake, as everyone has already reached this conclusion, but i AM american, so cut me some slack.

Anyway. I thought long and hard about it, and decided that there was no one realm that could be proven particularly overpowered, because it was all a point of view. I could wake up one day, roll a hib, decide albs were overpowered, then roll a mid, decide hibs were overpowered, then roll an Alb, and decide that either of the opposing realms were overpowered and therefore should just kindly go off and die. Where would this leave me? right back where I started, the overpowerment of every realm is merely perspective. Albion, for instance, generally hold the majority population advantage, however, this leads to a realm flooded with cheesey, untalented individuals who prefer to ride the zerg train than learn a skill of some sort (not a shot at ALL of albion, I know there are many of you who are very good at what you do.) The truth of the matter where albion is concerned is not that your classes are inherently underpowered... this is NOT true, it's more that your realm is so filled with less experienced players that as a whole while you hold twice the population, you lack players who know how to use their characters to their fullest potential.

As for Hibernia. I hail from Hibernia, and I have long supported the philosophy that if God truly did punish the guilty, all albion players should have contracted herpes long before now. However, recently I have heard a few albs out there saying hibernia is overpowered, and in the interest of due course, I shall shed a light on their concerns as well. A lot of people (mainly albs, mids don't seem to complain much) have been saying that not merely our casters (which we pride ourselves upon), but ALL of our characters are overpowered, and i wish to give you a few possible reasons for this notion. Now, again, I mean no offense to anyone, as undoubtedly there are many folks in the other two realms who are very good at what they do, but in my experience, it seems to me that hibernia has the highest concentration of people who know what the hell they are doing. Hibernians generally try to be original (at least on my server), instead of following the typical mezz/stun/kill format, they try to find more creative ways of dealing with opponents, mostly because as a whole they have more opponents to deal with. This has the effect of sometimes confusing some of our alb friends (I have a short viideo of an alb running in circles frantically doing absolutely nothing ).
Also, people who complain about hib casters...do you not read the guidebooks that come with the game? we are the CASTER REALM. Albion is the Jacks-of-all-trades realm...except in stealth, where there is little competition. From the other realms. Midgard is the tank realm.
You see, Hibernia of all realms should be considered slightly underpowered, because while we have good classes and people who know how to use them... on the server I'm from Hib doesn't cooperate well with itself, guilds hate on other guilds, wont group outside of a guild anytime, etc. it's retarded. We are also in most cases the least populated realm on any given server.

But, if anyone deserves the most props for hangin' in there, I'd grudgingly have to say it's the middies. They're realm is easy enough to understand, but it is a very tank-heavy, caster-light realm which makes it very hard to keep anything after they have taken it.

Also, and this applies to ANY realm...BEFORE you start saying how gimp your realm is and how much better another realm is...please don't. Chances are you're wearing crappy gear, or were in a pick-me-up group (notorious alb problem [overpopulation is a bitch aint it]), or were doing something incorrectly. After some afterthought, I've decided the best thing to do when one gets rolled, is cuss a couple times, wish herpes on the guy who kilt you, and move on...because in the end the other realm isn't overpowered, you're just mad you lost.

Or at least I am.

Tell me what you think

 

[Afuldan]

Also a Midgard note: Their casters aren't weak, per se, but they get about 3/4 the caster types of the other realms.

Also, what midgard lacks in majority, they make up for speed and precision. in my experiences with midgard from my server, they have a response time that is just ungodly. I remeber perhaps one time i wasn't frustrated when getting Zerged.

I was with about 5 groups of hibbies going to take b ack Dun crauchan from Mid. 5 minutes in we are hit with some retarded lag, everyone is asking wtf when out of nowhere I swear the entire population of Midgard down to every level one to ever exist there is dancing on our corpses. I couldn't stop laughing, i had no freakin' idea how they had pulled that one off, but it was a thing of beauty...I've got a screenie somewhere. For this feat, I solute midgard. Some organized mothers right there.

 

[Ezteq]

dude thats one mighty big thread to chew on i got jaw ache, though alb would be a hell of a lot better with more cooperation and less fotm snobbishness imo.

 

[Afuldan]

Yeah, all realms could benefit from it.

'cept KoS. They can keep being snobs, fine with me ^^

 

[Danya]

Alb is the weaker realm, primarily because of number of classes. When you have very few classes like midgard - in particular they have all their utility packed into just 4 or 5 classes - it becomes much easier to form a decent group. For instance while mids only need healers and a shaman really, and maybe a runie if hey want pbt and a skald for speed, albion has to use many more classes to achieve the save level of utility. This diluting of the character abilties tends to mean any alb group misses one or more abilities that a mid group has purely due to only being able to have 8 players in the group. This has been discussed many times in the past. It's certainly possible to do well with Alb characters, but it's also a lot easier to form a well balanced group with the other realms.

 

[[TB] Benedictine]

What Danya said

 

[Balbor]

What Danya said.

Runemasters are best example of this, they are basicly Wizards - PBAE + Nearsignt, Resist Debuffs, speed, PBT, stat debuffs. I know they are also missing a few other things such as baseline PDS, AOE root and single DOT but over all Runemaster are a lot more compleate than wizards

 

[cuddled0rf]

Seem to got it about right, nice post...altho i agree with Danya about the albs, its really just a bad excuse as ppl should run 2fg by now, and then albs should have the advantage, with all the extra utility the diversity of classes should bring....should have...

PS: Damn right with mids response time! tried it on pryd once, took about 2 mins from ppl was spotted, cg was up and about 10fg running out the gates of svasud.....got no idea how they do it tbh

 

[Bunnytwo]

dude thats one mighty big thread to chew on i got jaw ache, though alb would be a hell of a lot better with more cooperation and less fotm snobbishness imo.

Would argue that hibs and mids have slightly more powerful classes. Not saying anything wrong with that, as Hibs seem to have lower populations across all servers they need more power to compete.

Think Ez is right though that the main problem is lack of cooperation. Hib and Mid groups seem to be alot more organised both in terms of taking/defending keeps and in emain RvR. They seem to operate a lot more as a team, or rather a realm. Basically they seem to have realised this ain't CounterStrike, faster finger first type thing, it does help if you engage your brain occasionally.

Could just be they have less Nobs

Things might improve when NF kicks in. (Looks good btw )

 

[Teh FnoRd]

Top post Afuldan!

 

[Taen]

Hmmm. I was sitting here, reading the Daily Bickering (A thread I had started earlier), and I had an epiphany.

Now forgive me if I'm a little late on the uptake, as everyone has already reached this conclusion, but i AM american, so cut me some slack.

Anyway. I thought long and hard about it, and decided that there was no one realm that could be proven particularly overpowered, because it was all a point of view. I could wake up one day, roll a hib, decide albs were overpowered, then roll a mid, decide hibs were overpowered, then roll an Alb, and decide that either of the opposing realms were overpowered and therefore should just kindly go off and die. Where would this leave me? right back where I started, the overpowerment of every realm is merely perspective. Albion, for instance, generally hold the majority population advantage, however, this leads to a realm flooded with cheesey, untalented individuals who prefer to ride the zerg train than learn a skill of some sort (not a shot at ALL of albion, I know there are many of you who are very good at what you do.) The truth of the matter where albion is concerned is not that your classes are inherently underpowered... this is NOT true, it's more that your realm is so filled with less experienced players that as a whole while you hold twice the population, you lack players who know how to use their characters to their fullest potential.

As for Hibernia. I hail from Hibernia, and I have long supported the philosophy that if God truly did punish the guilty, all albion players should have contracted herpes long before now. However, recently I have heard a few albs out there saying hibernia is overpowered, and in the interest of due course, I shall shed a light on their concerns as well. A lot of people (mainly albs, mids don't seem to complain much) have been saying that not merely our casters (which we pride ourselves upon), but ALL of our characters are overpowered, and i wish to give you a few possible reasons for this notion. Now, again, I mean no offense to anyone, as undoubtedly there are many folks in the other two realms who are very good at what they do, but in my experience, it seems to me that hibernia has the highest concentration of people who know what the hell they are doing. Hibernians generally try to be original (at least on my server), instead of following the typical mezz/stun/kill format, they try to find more creative ways of dealing with opponents, mostly because as a whole they have more opponents to deal with. This has the effect of sometimes confusing some of our alb friends (I have a short viideo of an alb running in circles frantically doing absolutely nothing ).
Also, people who complain about hib casters...do you not read the guidebooks that come with the game? we are the CASTER REALM. Albion is the Jacks-of-all-trades realm...except in stealth, where there is little competition. From the other realms. Midgard is the tank realm.
You see, Hibernia of all realms should be considered slightly underpowered, because while we have good classes and people who know how to use them... on the server I'm from Hib doesn't cooperate well with itself, guilds hate on other guilds, wont group outside of a guild anytime, etc. it's retarded. We are also in most cases the least populated realm on any given server.

But, if anyone deserves the most props for hangin' in there, I'd grudgingly have to say it's the middies. They're realm is easy enough to understand, but it is a very tank-heavy, caster-light realm which makes it very hard to keep anything after they have taken it.

Also, and this applies to ANY realm...BEFORE you start saying how gimp your realm is and how much better another realm is...please don't. Chances are you're wearing crappy gear, or were in a pick-me-up group (notorious alb problem [overpopulation is a bitch aint it]), or were doing something incorrectly. After some afterthought, I've decided the best thing to do when one gets rolled, is cuss a couple times, wish herpes on the guy who kilt you, and move on...because in the end the other realm isn't overpowered, you're just mad you lost.

Or at least I am.

Tell me what you think

Please shut the fuck up because you dont know what you are talking about. Play all 3 realms to a decent realm rank and then talk about which realm is underpowered/overpowered. The fact that a person picked a certain realm when they started the game has absolutely no impact on their playing ability. Albion has just as many gank grps as any other realm but as said a million times before albion has too many classes so there abilities are diluted among more chars, making it more difficult to form a competitive 8 man grp. Albion has an advantage in the stealth side of the game because we have an extra stealth class but in regular RvR any decent player will confirm that we are at a disadvantage. Im not saying we cant compete at all but just that we have it slightly harder than the other realms. As for zerg problem ... ALL REALMS ZERG.... On excal you will find a mid zerg early in the day for some reason .. an alb zerg at primetime .... and a hib zerg late at night ... the alb zerg is just noticed more because its at primetime.

 

[Bunnytwo]

Please shut the fuck up because you dont know what you are talking about. Play all 3 realms to a decent realm rank and then talk about which realm is underpowered/overpowered.

Bit hard to do with only two English servers.

 

[Hairlock]

Wow...

An intelligent and well argued post - a rarity on these boards.

However... does make some generalisations which aren't too accurate.

Hibs don't have the best casters... and strictly speaking we are not the caster realm. On paper we don't have the best races for creating casters (Avalonian for higher Int, Dwarves make excellent casters because of high CON and smaller size) and all our damage spells are weaker than those of the other two realms. Some of the Mid casters (eg. Runemasters) probably have better all round utility than most Hib casters. However Hib casters do have a more PBAE and we get some nice combinations... a primary bolter that can secondary spec in a nearsight spell is a very nice combo and the baseline stun is quite nice.

Hibs are taken for better casters for two reasons.
1. Hib has a higher concentration of casters. Early DAOC literature did state Hib was the caster realm ( although this has been amended) and as a result a lot of DAOC beginners who wanted to play a caster would choose Hib as their starter realm. Just as those who wanted to play a tank chose midguard. Very early days on Hib Excal it was all Void Elds, where Tanks were very few and far between, my first toon was a Hib Hero and I used to get tell after tell begging me to join their groups as I was the only one around (not that I was any good). Because Hibs have higher numbers of casters most enemies will find themselves the victims of caster damage, rather than tanks. Constantly getting hit or killed by casters will lead to the conclusion that those casters are overpowered... rather than the fact there are twice many as as there are tanks.
2. Hibs will quite often own the Power Relics and hence their damage output may seem higher for this reason. On Excal the Hibs have pretty much owned the Power Relics for the past year and a half.. with only a brief holiday or two in the meantime.

However Mythic has constantly denied the fact that it created Hib as the caster realm and Mid as the Melee realm. The irony that supports this that Alb has the most powerful nukers and now has the best long range capability ( Theurg pets and Bolt range mezzes ). Mid on the other hand has the best and most prolific CC. While for my money Hib has some of the best tanks in the game. Best Hybrid = Champ, bets Light Tank = BM , best Heavy Tank = Hero probably... if not the best then certainly a strong contender.

Having lots of abilities rolled into the same character can also carries some disadvantages. It's easy to form a group but it can leave you vulnerable. A Hib Bard has your Mana Regen, Speed, End Regen and primary rezzer all rolled into one, which makes it very easy to base a group around him. However, a bard cannot give you End Regen and Speed at the same time unless he spins his songs and that can be very difficult in open battle... also constantly swapping intruments and those notes buzzing round your head can make you an open target in RvR - one hit and the song is gone which means as a Hibs very rarely have End Regen at their disposal.. leaving their tanks at a severe disadvantage.

But still agree with the original post. Realm balance is a relative issue and Mythic have done a better job with DAOC than Sony have with Planetside. Just wanted to add some points that most realm balance arguments neglect to mention.

My two pennies anyways.

 

[Spear]

The main problem that has never been addressed is the spread of vital abilities over so many classes for Albion.
Most of albs classes seem to get given poxy dmging spells instead of having 2 key abilities on one class.

Lets look at just the healers in the realms and the abilities that classes get no matter what they spec:

Primary Healer
Mid/Healer
Alb/Cleric
Hib/Druid

Best Primary Healer:
1st Midgard - can heal, buff, 70sec Mez and 11 sec Stun
2nd Hibernia - can heal, buff and do 70sec Root
3rd Albion - can heal, buff, DD and 9sec stun (DD has such a huge variance of dmg that its unusable unless specced in)

Secondary Healer:
Mid/Shaman
Alb/Friar
Hib/Bard

Best Secondary Healer
1st Midgard - Can heal, buff, Dot, Desease, 84sec Root!
2nd Hibernia - Can Heal, buff, 70sec Mezz, Cure, Melee
3rd Albion - Can Heal(laff), buff, Melee

Every group that leaves the PK must have a healer otherwise they are simply rp fodder.
If a Mid or Hib group leaves PK with a Primary or Secondary Healer they are guarenteed CC ability. Where as Alb has to hunt around for yet another class before they can leave or they have to zerg with several groups to make up for the lack of abilities.

Just seems to me that players in Hibernia and Midgard just look at albs presence in RVR see an awful lot of them and jump to the conclusion that they are balanced.

 

[Ezteq]

Think Ez is right though

Ok, what've you done? or what're you after? im all suspicious now

 

[Bunnytwo]

Ok, what've you done? or what're you after? im all suspicious now

You had to be right eventually

 

[Aithe]

What Danya said.

Runemasters are best example of this, they are basicly Wizards - PBAE + Nearsignt, Resist Debuffs, speed, PBT, stat debuffs. I know they are also missing a few other things such as baseline PDS, AOE root and single DOT but over all Runemaster are a lot more compleate than wizards

Runie's dont have PBaoe

 

[Teh FnoRd]

Please shut the fuck up because you dont know what you are talking about. Play all 3 realms to a decent realm rank and then talk about which realm is underpowered/overpowered. The fact that a person picked a certain realm when they started the game has absolutely no impact on their playing ability. Albion has just as many gank grps as any other realm but as said a million times before albion has too many classes so there abilities are diluted among more chars, making it more difficult to form a competitive 8 man grp. Albion has an advantage in the stealth side of the game because we have an extra stealth class but in regular RvR any decent player will confirm that we are at a disadvantage. Im not saying we cant compete at all but just that we have it slightly harder than the other realms. As for zerg problem ... ALL REALMS ZERG.... On excal you will find a mid zerg early in the day for some reason .. an alb zerg at primetime .... and a hib zerg late at night ... the alb zerg is just noticed more because its at primetime.

Funny how it's an alb that don't seem to see the cunstructive post here and have to go stfu to defend albs right to cry nerf...

 

[civy]

The game in its current evolution is a caster game. Hibernia and Midguard have better casters and caster assist tools. The end

 

[od_immortalis]

Funny how it's an alb that don't seem to see the cunstructive post here and have to go stfu to defend albs right to cry nerf...

LoL... You wrote what I was going to say xD - But I agree, each realm has it's own 'over/underpoweredness' and theres nothing we can do about it.
It's what makes the game.

 

[Balbor]

Runie's dont have PBaoe

RUNIS = WIZARDS - (that minus) BPAE + (all the stuff i put)

 

[Balbor]

on all Europe servers there are only 2 albion guilds in the top 20. Now seeing as many gamers like to mast all aspects of a game lot of people will play all three reams (bit hard for us to do wit only 2 server but german and french speaking people can) you would think that it would balence itself out a bit more. Playing on Albion i have noticed a few of guild from other server/realms migrate over in large numbers only to leave a few month latter.

 

[stupeh]

Best Secondary Healer
1st Midgard - Can heal, buff, Dot, Desease, 84sec Root!
2nd Hibernia - Can Heal, buff, 70sec Mezz, Cure, Melee
3rd Albion - Can Heal(laff), buff, Melee

Haven't played a shammy, but bards are on the same level as friars when it comes to healing :\

 

[Aithe]

same goes for shamans

 

[Darzil]

The main advantage that Shamans and Bards can have over Friars when healing is not the power of their heals, but that they don't have to recover from being in Melee before they can start.

Not commenting on their relative power, just the healing part.

Darzil

 

[Pin]

Haven't played a shammy, but bards are on the same level as friars when it comes to healing :\

He should have mentioned Wardens

 

[Kami]

true friars should have thier spec weapon removed so they dont have that problem. Or perhaps it's not really a problem but a bonus that they can attack.

As far as shaman dots go, they're pointless unless cave spec'd cant believe how poor mine is (read - 1 single target dot) after specing into aug more

 

[Wij]

Clerics and Druids are a PRIMARY buffing class tho. Healers are not. Aug healers are useful but that means low pac and mend. A decent Mid group needs 1 Pac Healer, 1 Mend Healer and 1 Aug Shaman to do heals, buffs and CC. An Alb one needs 1 Rejuv Cleric, 1 Enhance Cleric and 1 Sorc to do the same three things. I can't be arsed figuring out the Hib version

Pac Healer <> Mend Healer.

Sure a Pac Healer can heal A BIT... but a sorc can damage a bit too.

Stlong Alb Whin0rz

*don flame-protection suit*

 

[Hairlock]

The game in its current evolution is a caster game. Hibernia and Midguard have better casters and caster assist tools. The end

Hey, Civy.

Care to validate that comment in any way, shape or form?

Hib and Mid don't have the "best" casters, or if they do then please enlighten us as to how.

With Spell Crafting, ToA resists and all the various realm abilities ( Determination, Avoidance of magic) most toons can run around with about %50 magic resists. Its very hard to kill anything with just magic these days apart from other casters. DAOC is by no means a caster game and has been evolving away from casters for quite some time.

Fact is that Albion lacks versatility in its support classes which makes it difficult to form competitive RvR groups. Thats Albions major weakness and nothoing to do with your casters as they are pretty strong.

 

[Ormorof]

DAOC is by no means a caster game and has been evolving away from casters for quite some time.

have you met a hib bodyguard/grapple caster group?