Some people suck bad.....

[Etherion]

Whats up with the greed of people these days? I feel sorry for the crafters that spend hours and hours and days and weeks trying to get mps and then, we only charge cost price, and 20% markup, and maybe even less if we feel guilty for giving them a big retry item. However, the people who do sc and alc, I wonder why u started them? I asked a lgm scer how much would his markup be, and his answer was 50-75% markup. WTF!!!! Poor guild crafters craft for hardly any markup, and yet these people charge 50%-75%? you don't even need mp gems, only 99% gems at max. What can they be thinking about? And if the item goes boom, it;s not their fault, its not them running to df and farm gold again. Why, oh why are these people so greedy???

 

[elerand]

I don't know about sc, it's a nightmare with all those gems to look at but I do know how long it can take from someone who spent 6 hours on one order and although that's an extreme it is a time consuming business.

It's not surprising that a lot of people get the imbue points value wrong and it's often up to the sc'er to work it all out for the customer, more time and effort.

Markup isn't just a profit on the cost price, it's also for the crafters time. I remember the inflated prices when people first hit 1k+ in sc and alch and it was crazy, these days they have settled down to more agreeable costs, some are still high but not all.

I had hoped that the sc and alch crafting community had sort of normalised prices to something acceptable to everyone, seeing as my prices for alch are no longer deemed acceptable (despite being at a lvl that most alchs charge and no customer has ever complained about, less than 40% markup on reactives and less than 20% on anything else) I'll give in and just craft for guilds/friends, at least then I'm providing a service to those who helped me and returning something to them.

 

[Mirhen Morkir]

This is exactly why I posted the 'Low cost Alchemy' thread.

As for alchemy, i can't see how crafters are willing to charge 100-200g 'for thier time' per reactive tincture, when it takes only a couple of minutes to make.

Inecux - LGM Alchemist

 

[Etherion]

Elerand, now, I spent 2 days, crafting mp pants for someone, and it took 251 tries. So, do I charge him 30% or 40% or 50% because it took me long time?No, I charged him 10% becuase i felt bad for charging people lots for soemthign that can be cheap at times.

When you become a crafter, you put urself at the realms service. If according to you guys, fine, please post here ur guilds u are in, and from now on, I will charge you all a markup for 50%, and other guilds 20% and allaince 10%, and own guilds material cost.

 

[elerand]

Originally posted by Etherion
Elerand, now, I spent 2 days, crafting mp pants for someone, and it took 251 tries. So, do I charge him 30% or 40% or 50% because it took me long time?No, I charged him 10% becuase i felt bad for charging people lots for soemthign that can be cheap at times.

When you become a crafter, you put urself at the realms service. If according to you guys, fine, please post here ur guilds u are in, and from now on, I will charge you all a markup for 50%, and other guilds 20% and allaince 10%, and own guilds material cost.

You feel bad because you spend 2 days working on something that someone was going to pay 10% on?

I believe a crafter is entitled to charge what he wants, cost or 50%, in the end it's the customer who decides what they want and that's it, realms service or not.

I charged my prices because I felt it was fair, not one person complained and if they haggled I played along with it because that's fun.

 

[StormriderX]

well you should take into consideration the fact that spell crafters need to make 4x99% gems most of the time for just one item, and one full set of armor = 6x4 = 24, 99% gems which takes quite a while to make...

 

[lofff]

depends a lot on the sc template itself, sum ppl fucks up and uses too high lvl gems which cost loads

imperfect/polished/faceted all u need and wont b too expensive

ps: /begs stormriderx 2p for 4ablatives and 2af reactives ;P

 

[Cloak_]

50% markup on cost price is still fuk all compared to what ud pay for a drop with the same stats

 

[Elric IA]

The only difference I see between traditional trade skills and the new ones is the lack of craft tasks to 650 skill. Whilst this will save a bit of money for the traditional skills the amount of cash to raise from 650 to 1000+ means that this money does not have as much significance as people think. Therefore traditional skill crafters have ploughed in a similar amount of cash to get where they are today not just SCers and Alchemists.

With alchemy as quality does not matter (except I believe for charges) the item tends to be made in one go. Quality based items (SC, WC, AC, etc) can take several goes to do to get the quality especially MPs ( ).

My markup has always been based on the difference between the base price and the merchant price for weapons (ok I know the merchant does not sell tier 7-10 weapons but the principle is the same) which is approximately 25%.

Alliance members get it cheaper and guild is base cost or even free at times.

If I charged 50-75% markup on weapons only the silly would buy them.

Your time in effect is charged by your profit as each remake adds time but also some profit.

BTW Elerand someone quoted me some of your prices the other day they seemed quite reasonable to me (especially if they would involve getting stuff from drops rather than just buy from the merchant some stuff needs abysmal drops i think etc.)

 

[Ravenbourne]

Well with SC/alch you cant make a fortune from trinketing, ie self fund. so maybe they have the right to charge a bit more of a mark up

 

[<Harle>]

keep in mind that an alchemist/Spellcrafter is NOT able to earn a fortune by buying seals and trinketing, cause he gets no usefull secondary trade-skill. I always smile when people complain about 50% markup on alchemy-stuff, while they happily sell their saphire-seals for the usual 3 gold, where the crafter they sell it to makes about 65% profit.

 

[elerand]

Originally posted by Elric IA

BTW Elerand someone quoted me some of your prices the other day they seemed quite reasonable to me (especially if they would involve getting stuff from drops rather than just buy from the merchant some stuff needs abysmal drops i think etc.)

Actually someone in guild got some necrotic brain fluid from that dragon raid

So I can make those atck speed debuff poisons now lol

I charge next to nothing for the low lvl stuff and minimal profits for weapons, reactives are my bread and butter and even with my sky high prices I wasn't getting rich fast, I wish! Been doing reactives for about a month now and I've made in profit maybe 10p at most but that's after taking a lot of orders, at one stage I was the only alch online (having the only active lvl 50 warden in guild at the time sucks ) and so had no problems with getting customers, wish I had done some other skill if I wanted to be rich but hey, I just want to make enough to pay back, fund other crafters and get my bm's sc suit then I'm kinda done tbh

 

[Tank Init]

Originally posted by <Harle>
keep in mind that an alchemist/Spellcrafter is NOT able to earn a fortune by buying seals and trinketing

can still make a fortune selling diamond seals to crafters for 10 gold each though and no need to stand at a forge for hours on end to trinket them

 

[elerand]

Sure, a fortune, if you call making 20 seals in a normal hunt a fortune
It's a lot true, 200g is not to be sniffed at but unless you have the means to farm them without having to share them with 7 other people it's slow enough.
I didn't start alch to make a profit, just that making a profit on it is nice, I still farm for salvage and cash drops in tur suil, I can do that and help fellow guild members xp at the same time, I never depended on alch to make me rich because it hasn't.

Somehow I think some people have the wrong idea that all alchs are rolling in cash because someone came along and said that we were charging too much, I am certainly not rich and I don't believe many other alchs are.

I got funded at the end by guild ac'er and wc'er, both make a lot more out of their craft than I do

 

[Etherion]

Again,after finally getting to the final talks with the scer, he says that he wants a 60% markup. And when i ask why, this is what he said:

Quote: Someone tell me to charge them 75%markup, or by the hour.
ENd of Quote

Ok, someone please explain why people have become like this before I get really pissed and start swearing.

I spent 1 week making someones mp set, and i only charged 20%markup. My guild has never funded me in any way, and yet, I managed to get 2 lgm crafters, how? I cash farm, lvl alts.

Why can't some people understnad that they craft so they can have fun in the game, and not by trying to beocme rich? This isn't real money u guys!!! Wake up, crafters are only here to FXXXing help ohter peopel..

 

[elerand]

Etherion I think your really talking about a minority of crafters.

That sc'er is probably one in how many?

Same for us alchs, we charge what has become an accepted price, good for us and our customers.

Of course we look overpriced compared to inecuxs prices, doesn't mean that most of us haven't been charging a fair price all along, bit fed up with being suddenly villified for it tbh.

 

[hrun]

why not use fixed high rates..?

 

[Noche]

1. Fixed prices is a good idea, but sadly it is never possible to do.

2. When a SCer spent 15p to master and an alchemist spent 35p to master compared with tailor who only need to spend AT MOST 8p (I have a legendary one) to be able to do all, wot u think u should charge? Ppl know that making tailors = earn money while making wpncrafters = waste tons of money.

3. All the alchemist I have met/asked, the mark up for things r about 30 - 40%, some even cheaper, above 50% IS a bit expensive for an alchemist.

4. SCers got huge stress (no I´m not SCer of any kind), and doing all that setup is quite time consuming (sometimes they need to, or at least to verify if the customer´s order is doable or not), sorry I don´t know about SC but making 4 items to imbue on a piece and all 4 usually need to have high qual is a pain, time-consuming job. Not to mention that a bad fail would cause some fireworks, hehe.

5. Mudane crafters can do salvage and trinket extremely easy, 50g will be enough (yes I know for the experience if u wanna know how just msg me) for a 1k skill tailor to reach 1k in both woodworking and metalworking. While new craft art cannot do any of em, so a new crafters can either farm for days (yes days) or pray for donations and some supports from guildies. Salvage and trinket DF seals or FBs r EXTREMELY easy and fast, another day a bard got couple Ps (pure benefit, not total money) buying tons of seals at DF.

 

[Cloak_]

Tbh I charge nothing for SC..

Just cost + retry.

and I think that most ppl realise that and give extra on top as a thankyou..

Then again, I dont SC very often

 

[Armolas]

I always do SC at 20% mark up although I am always happy to take tips on top of that.

6 hours is a bit extreme, a full set of armour with 99% gems usually takes 4 hours or so, but it can take longer (and cost more) on a luck basis.

I am always happy to take orders, but because it does take so long to do I can't always do it straight away.

Maybe I should charge more, I have managed to get all the items I need for my own SC kit but can't afford to put the gems in it now, never mind the ablatives.

Its not orders that make cash for crafters, it is trinketing seals and drops.

having said that a few more orders would help but on a typical full set of armour and weapons, the cost is only 600 - 700g so that is less than 150g profit from a good 4+hours crafting if I don't get a tip.

I just feel that charging more than 20% is ripping people off, so I won't do it.

 

[spankya]

Etherion, I dont see the problem. If u dont like someone's prices, tell them and see if they reduce it. If they dont, go see someone else. Just remember... treat poeple how u want to be treated and vice versa. If that person who charged u massive markup wants u to make him something then make him pay a big markup too or just tell him to fo.

To the people that have been doing my SCing and Alchemy at fantastic prices... Thanks and hope u know who to ask for your cheap armour

 

[elerand]

Originally posted by Armolas
I always do SC at 20% mark up although I am always happy to take tips on top of that.

6 hours is a bit extreme, a full set of armour with 99% gems usually takes 4 hours or so, but it can take longer (and cost more) on a luck basis.

I am always happy to take orders, but because it does take so long to do I can't always do it straight away.

Maybe I should charge more, I have managed to get all the items I need for my own SC kit but can't afford to put the gems in it now, never mind the ablatives.

Its not orders that make cash for crafters, it is trinketing seals and drops.

having said that a few more orders would help but on a typical full set of armour and weapons, the cost is only 600 - 700g so that is less than 150g profit from a good 4+hours crafting if I don't get a tip.

I just feel that charging more than 20% is ripping people off, so I won't do it.

If you need ablatives armolas I'll do yours for cost since your an old M&M

 

[old.Aldias]

http://geocities.com/boyd888/pricing.html#sc

This is the basic prices....then it depends from u ...how good r u to make business / dealing....

Take Care

 

[Armolas]

I'm sorry ald but that link is bollocks.

99% gems cost an average of 3.5 x cost, that is true, so charging 7xcost is a rip off.

I always work to actual cost, i will give an estimate, I usually estimate on the high side, but the actual cost to the customer is the amount of cash I started with, - the amount of cash i end with +20% and rounded to the nearest 5g (1g if it is for bg1 type stuff).

100% markup is untenable, and I won't do that to my customers; if they can afford it they can always add on extra themselves.

 

[inuyasha]

Originally posted by Etherion
Whats up with the greed of people these days? I feel sorry for the crafters that spend hours and hours and days and weeks trying to get mps and then, we only charge cost price, and 20% markup, and maybe even less if we feel guilty for giving them a big retry item. However, the people who do sc and alc, I wonder why u started them? I asked a lgm scer how much would his markup be, and his answer was 50-75% markup. WTF!!!! Poor guild crafters craft for hardly any markup, and yet these people charge 50%-75%? you don't even need mp gems, only 99% gems at max. What can they be thinking about? And if the item goes boom, it;s not their fault, its not them running to df and farm gold again. Why, oh why are these people so greedy???

Sc is the one craft that is by faaar the most work, and its so unrealistic cheap material costs they wouldnt earn dickweed with fair prices. .P

if you charge someone who does this to earn money, 50% is quite fair for a sc'er imho. Comparing it to mp armor is totaly bs, case you would get equal or more cash making a mp hat rf/scale at 20% markup then a full armor set's sc ing. It also take longer time, ten times the room in inventory, it demands 100 runs too and from, so you can not be afk even semi, like i am quite sure everyone are while armorcrafting.

So, just say 50% or something, or ask a guild sc'er to do it. But if your nice, and you should be since its a guildie, i would still pay him/her about 50% markup simply case its worth it

 

[astramenius]

you ask why they take 75% markup?

system is called open market.

as long there are not that much LGM SCers there like LGM AC/...
they just can take the markup and ppl still buy ...

 

[old.Laryssa]

Yesterday I saw peeps whining in Domnan Grove at an Alchemist was charging 350g for an Ablative. Now how sad is this ?

We still have a free market - if u not ok with the set price there are 2 possible solutions:

1.) find a cheaper one
2.) skill up to LGM yourself

lemme guess, 99% of the population will respond to both points with CBA.

Sad.

And still if (in your opinion) the price is too high - did u ever try to BARGAIN with the crafter - can be a fresh experience ...

 

[Spamb0t]

1. cba
2. cba

 

[i-scream]

Before patch X.XX, there was no SC or Alch. People invented some system to be paid for their time/effort/levelling; they invented the mark up as a more or less fair benefit. This system was based on material prices.

With high material prices, this system seems to be fair, but as said before, the SC materials are low priced. And by consequence, the system which was previously applied, cannot be applied because one calculation factor changed.

In my opinion, a more balanced price system would be based on "time spent"+ material costs. In real life, we have several examples too, where it's not the material price which is most defining the customers cost price, but it's especially the time the "crafter" spents on something which defines final prices (look at lawyers, barbers, plumber, etc... with all respect for these RL professions).

So a crafter should think of what he/she could have gained while hunting for that time when he was crafting. Above that, the crafter can add a %, as a reward for his investment to become a SC'er and to be able to make stuff you'll never find in the realm. And of course, the real cost price for producing jewels (retries) should be paid as well by the customer.

 

[old.Laryssa]

Originally posted by Spamb0t
1. cba
2. cba

proofs my theory