So, this flight shit.

[Everz]

So, after hearing those in NY wouldn't be able to get back till the 26th. Whats likely date of someone flying back to here from Washington be? Any info place etc.?

 

[Job]

Very soon, the politicians are under immense pressure, cos it's costing us big and the whole thing is totally over the top safety wise.
Another symptom of our litigation age.

Then again would YOU want to be on the first flight?

 

[Everz]

Yea, been reading up, seems it's been totally overblown by the government, typical. Nah missus meant to be flying back on Thursday from Washington but there not reporting on much if anything over there so i'm acting info atm hah.

 

[Job]

And you know who has 'predicted' the ash plum and it's possible damage levels?

The British MET office using a computer guessimation.
Without a single real measurement they have shut down Europe and will be
answering some pretty difficult questions over the next few months.

They have been ditched for hopeless weather predictions and the airlines are going apeshit at this latest virtual world guess, which one day no doubt wlil be useful , but at the moment has far to few inputs to be relied upon.

 

[Mauness]

and the moment a plane crashes and lives are lost, people will then bitch that it was un-safe to open up air travel.

With people lives possibly in jeopardy, you cant seriously blame them for being a lil over-caucious?

 

[Zenith.UK]

The problem isn't flights *over* the areas in question. It's descending or ascending through it that they're really bothered about. Job was spot on when he said that the lockdown was due to a weather forecast rather than hard facts, data and observations. The airlines and Govts know this so they had to get some planes up to determine the actual situation. The general impression of the flights themselves were good, but the engines will need to be inspected for damage (if any).

What bothers me is the lack of a sense of proportion. This ash dust is finer than talcum powder so it floats on air currents easily. A plane flies along at 400-600mph at 30,000-35,000feet. To put it in context, sandblasting equipment has a nozzle speed of about 600mph. The particle density of the ash "cloud" is much much lower than a sandblaster so abrasion shouldn't be an issue. The only factor I can't comment on is powder getting into the engines because that is a specialised area of mechanics.

 

[Calaen]

The problem isn't flights *over* the areas in question. It's descending or ascending through it that they're really bothered about. Job was spot on when he said that the lockdown was due to a weather forecast rather than hard facts, data and observations. The airlines and Govts know this so they had to get some planes up to determine the actual situation. The general impression of the flights themselves were good, but the engines will need to be inspected for damage (if any).

What bothers me is the lack of a sense of proportion. This ash dust is finer than talcum powder so it floats on air currents easily. A plane flies along at 400-600mph at 30,000-35,000feet. To put it in context, sandblasting equipment has a nozzle speed of about 600mph. The particle density of the ash "cloud" is much much lower than a sandblaster so abrasion shouldn't be an issue. The only factor I can't comment on is powder getting into the engines because that is a specialised area of mechanics.

Did you see the interview with the captain of the flight in 1982? The ash has a much bigger effect on the plane than you give it credit for.

People just get pissed off because no matter how superior we think we are as a race, mother nature can do what the fuck it wants, whenever it wants. And we simply have to stand back and admire it.

 

[Corran]

Very soon, the politicians are under immense pressure, cos it's costing us big and the whole thing is totally over the top safety wise.
Another symptom of our litigation age.

Then again would YOU want to be on the first flight?

The British Airways Chief Executive was so confident that it was fine he insisted on going aboard the BA test flight. Had no problems.

The EU governments need to be really careful now because they facing a large number of lawsuits from airlines with the way things are going.

Basically on 1 occassion a plane goes through a very thick ash cloud and had problems. This and weather patterns is all that been used in the decision to shut down the EU.
So airlines run test flights, find that they have no problem. Governments still dont open the airspace. At this point you got airlines with clear proof that there are no issues with flying, and the governments got what? Guesses.

When it comes down to it the airlines should win compensation cases quite easily for hundreds of millions of pounds.
...

There a simple solution. Airlines told that they can fly but at own risk, no insurance companies will cover them for ash related accident. They also will have to agree to liability for any accident that does happen (ie they hit someone on ground )

Passengers told they fly at own risk, no insurance will cover them for ash related accident

..
Problem sorted.

Sure if you are on ground and get hit by an ash related accident plane then family will feel hard done by. But shit happens and you cant shut down a continent on a whim, with no real evidence.
,,,

Im just glad this being sorted now, as really dont want to cancel my wedding in september because the EU is being overcautious. Cant exactly walk to Cyprus


....
Further more, planes been flying through ash on numerous occassions outside of the EU and there hasnt been problems. But hey, this is a "special" volcano that will end the world

 

[Sparx]

its all fine and well moaning that the government etc is being overcautious but it only takes one plane to fall, just one. Sending out 1 test flight isnt quite the same as sending up thousands of planes now is it?

 

[Everz]

So in conclusion, If what the airlines and basically anyone with a knowledge about volcanic ash is actually heard, that if she gets to the airport on Thursday, I can expect to actually see her on the other end on Friday?

 

[Corran]

its all fine and well moaning that the government etc is being overcautious but it only takes one plane to fall, just one. Sending out 1 test flight isnt quite the same as sending up thousands of planes now is it?

Been alot more then 1 test flight, been at least a dozen now of various journey lengths and not a single one has shown any problem with the engines. They were doing final tests to see if there was any damage done to the propellers etc within the engine last I knew, but from what they could tell there wasnt any real additional wear to them.

When you think that alot of airlines are in major debt as is, and this is costing airlines about £120m a day (combined), something that wont be covered by any insurance (act of god), then this cant really go on else every airline will end up bust.

Tell people it at their own risk and be done with it

 

[Thorwyn]

"More than 80 commercial aircraft have unexpectedly encountered volcanic ash in flight and at airports in the past 15 years. Seven of these encounters caused in-flight loss of jet engine power, which nearly resulted in the crash of the airplane. A range of damage may occur to airplanes that fly through an eruption cloud depending on the concentration of volcanic ash and gas aerosols in the cloud, the length of time the aircraft actually spends in the cloud, and the actions taken by the pilots to exit the cloud."

Danger to Aircraft from Volcanic Eruption Clouds and Volcanic Ash
Page Last Modified: Thursday, 23 October 2008 16:13:00 UTC

 

[Everz]

Lets sound 80 planes up and about, if we get 7 with a bit of damage then we know its the real deal.. ha.

 

[Ceixah]

Been alot more then 1 test flight, been at least a dozen now of various journey lengths and not a single one has shown any problem with the engines. They were doing final tests to see if there was any damage done to the propellers etc within the engine last I knew, but from what they could tell there wasnt any real additional wear to them.

When you think that alot of airlines are in major debt as is, and this is costing airlines about £120m a day (combined), something that wont be covered by any insurance (act of god), then this cant really go on else every airline will end up bust.

Tell people it at their own risk and be done with it

all great from a business perspective but go down that line and you have human rights issues with people that feel they have no choice but fly as they cant afford to live in foreign country with no money/accommodation etc

Unfortunately on this occasion I think the governments are taking the right measures, it'd literally take 1 plane being affected and say 300 or so people dying in a crash for air traffic to be suspended for a longer period of time, so i'd much rather they wait until they can definitively say its safe to fly.

and i think you'll be ok for september haha xD

 

[Hawkwind]

I flew from Dubai to LA on Saturday, just took 4 hours extra with a fuel stop in Toronto. THink some of the restrictions will be lifted soon. Several airlines have been running test flights and found no problems at varying altitudes.

 

[Jeros]

Its not worth the risk tbh

YouTube- Volcanic Ash and Jet Engines - Sixty Symbols

 

[Azurus]

Meant to be flying tonight but it has been pushed back to the 30th due to the backlog. Means I will miss my uni exams so will have to do them during the summer holidays, have been saving up to backpack india over the summer with some freinds but this has well and truly fucked it.

 

[Job]

There's a whole world of difference between flying right through the plume as all the aircraft did with failed engines and flying 1500 miles away through air so thin with ash it's like throwing a teaspoon of talcum powder at the plane.

The Americans are laughing at us, they have loads of volcano plumes and only shutdown in the immediate vicinity.

 

[Thorwyn]

There's a whole world of difference between flying right through the plume as all the aircraft did with failed engines and flying 1500 miles away through air so thin with ash it's like throwing a teaspoon of talcum powder at the plane.

There´s also a whole world of difference between being responsible for people´s lives and sitting in your chair, picking your nose while writing clever statements although you actually don´t know jack shit.

 

[Jeros]

There´s also a whole world of difference between being responsible for people´s lives and sitting in your chair, picking your nose while writing clever statements although you actually don´t know jack shit.

Thankyou

One thing i have learned in life, dont make assumptions on somthing you know nothing about.

 

[Everz]

Well seems it could be another week before she gets home.. Thats a kick in the nuts . What utter tits they are blowing this over. Gutting.

 

[old.Tohtori]

Friend was supposed to fly to the UK today, with some fiddling about, got a flight at 24th.

Not too shabby i think, now just have to hope things clear out by then.

 

[Sparx]

i know i wouldnt want to be that person who makes the decision its ok to fly then have just one plane go down

 

[Ctuchik]

Yea, been reading up, seems it's been totally overblown by the government

maybe, but what would happen if a plane actually did crash because of the ashes if they DID open up the airspace?

yeah its costing money, but rather money then lives...

 

[Sparx]

Volcano Ash Cloud's Jet Damage: NATO F-16 Fighter Jets Suffer Engine Damage

 

[Everz]

Just read up that one, good calls then if damage has been suffered. Play the waiting game I guess.

 

[Dahakon]

People bitching about the government saying "oh let the planes fly and tell people it's at their own risk if anything happens" don't seem to be considering themselves or their loved ones being on a flight that goes down. No one has the right to fuck around with hundreds of people's lives, and the knock on effect on their loved ones etc, in a situation that we really don't know enough about yet. If they had said it was safe to fly and people got killed the same people bitching now would be up in arms about it, and talking about criminal charges etc. Whatever they do people are just gonna bitch, so I'd much rather they get bitched at without putting thousands of people's lives in danger.

 

[- English -]

meant to be flying tomorrow moring, 7:30 danish time ... no cancellations yet ..

though i know it will be ;P

 

[Everz]

People bitching about the government saying "oh let the planes fly and tell people it's at their own risk if anything happens" don't seem to be considering themselves or their loved ones being on a flight that goes down. No one has the right to fuck around with hundreds of people's lives, and the knock on effect on their loved ones etc, in a situation that we really don't know enough about yet. If they had said it was safe to fly and people got killed the same people bitching now would be up in arms about it, and talking about criminal charges etc. Whatever they do people are just gonna bitch, so I'd much rather they get bitched at without putting thousands of people's lives in danger.

Yeh i'm in agreement, all i'm trying to do is find out information that is all, not doing some mass call to bring them all back, id rather gf be back in a weeks time risk free then be rushed back over and have the risk of the plane going down.

 

[Everz]

RadarVirtuel.com with a Volcano Ashes Layer

Planes in the air atm, theres a fair few tbh, uk media overblown maybe.