News So they re-opened Airspace...

[rynnor]

... you think they read this?

"A study of the incident by researchers at NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory published in 2002 notes that satellites failed to pick up evidence of ash at the point where the DC-8 encountered it; instead it indicated cirrus clouds."

"The insidious nature of this encounter and the resulting damage was such that engine trending [readings from in-flight instruments] did not reveal a problem, yet hot section parts may have begun to fail [through blade erosion] if flown another 100 hours," the duo wrote."

Should planes fly in Iceland volcano ash? Be careful, study says - WGBA -

 

[cHodAX]

It seems a massive risk, alot of unknown variables.

 

[rynnor]

It seems a massive risk, alot of unknown variables.

Yeah - the NASA guys only flew through the invisible ash cloud for 7 minutes to do millions of dollars worth of damage to the engines so you really have to hope the current cloud has dispersed.

 

[Embattle]

I heard that in essence the minimum limit for ash was pushed up thus pushing it above current levels meaning planes can fly again. The thing is I kind of get the feeling it is possible to fly at the moment if airlines are careful but you'll have to excuse if I tend to be rather cynical when it comes to this factor.

 

[Furr]

mmmmm.... rather not get in a plane without the all clear to be honest...

 

[Moriath]

more like the almighty dollar pushing the authoity so hard they cave

 

[Chilly]

bang goes the theory had a good segment on this the other night. they showed how the ash forms thin films of glass on the turbine blades, which stops them working efficiently enough to keep the jet going properly. the only way to get the glass off is to shut down the engines and glide through cold air, which thermally contracts the turbines slightly and forces the glass to crack off, thus letting the engines work again.

fuck me that would be scary. I aint flying nowhere for a month.

 

[Sparx]

yeah i watched that too with mates and they all went ahh now its alot clearer.

 

[old.Tohtori]

You really think airlines would risk lives(and quite expensive planes) to fly if they didn't think it was safe? The lives onboard the planes (ticket wise)aren't even worth the plane itself.

British seemed to be out of the loop anyway the whole time, like claiming the volcano was getting stronger when infact it was dying down

Seems that the whole british media is aimed to create two camps to rabble on about things, so the gov. can go about their business.

This is from an outside vie and how it -looks-.

 

[Calaen]

bang goes the theory had a good segment on this the other night. they showed how the ash forms thin films of glass on the turbine blades, which stops them working efficiently enough to keep the jet going properly. the only way to get the glass off is to shut down the engines and glide through cold air, which thermally contracts the turbines slightly and forces the glass to crack off, thus letting the engines work again.

fuck me that would be scary. I aint flying nowhere for a month.

They made the best decision and took their time making sure it was all good, you can't just ignore the fact that this stuff can cause serious damage. Glad to see BA's nose put out tbh, it's usually their own staff causing flights to be delayed cancelled.

Safety is paramount.

 

[DaGaffer]

You really think airlines would risk lives(and quite expensive planes) to fly if they didn't think it was safe? The lives onboard the planes (ticket wise)aren't even worth the plane itself.

British seemed to be out of the loop anyway the whole time, like claiming the volcano was getting stronger when infact it was dying down

Seems that the whole british media is aimed to create two camps to rabble on about things, so the gov. can go about their business.

This is from an outside vie and how it -looks-.

Fuck me. I agree with Toht. I feel dirty...

 

[rynnor]

Interesting to see Ryanair has cancelled all flights till 1PM tomorrow in Northern Europe due to the Ash cloud forecasts but the others are flying.

 

[Scouse]

Just been watching this on the news. The airline industry has pulled an arbitrary figure out of their arses for how much ash is "safe" - 0.002g/cubic meter.

Now, it occurs to me that the ash at low levels of concentration will simply do damage to the plane at a much slower rate. It won't, as the authorities seem to think, start acting on the engines in a completely different and safe fashion.

Planes could still drop, though I don't think they will. What I think might happen is that there may be a very slight higher incidence of mechanical failure much further along the line....?

Either way. It's a vastly different stance from "ash is dangerous".

Money wins.

 

[Embattle]

You really think airlines would risk lives(and quite expensive planes) to fly if they didn't think it was safe? The lives onboard the planes (ticket wise)aren't even worth the plane itself.

British seemed to be out of the loop anyway the whole time, like claiming the volcano was getting stronger when infact it was dying down

Seems that the whole british media is aimed to create two camps to rabble on about things, so the gov. can go about their business.

This is from an outside vie and how it -looks-.

Sure they would, because they view it as a risk and companies have been proven many times to take risks.

Whatever the situation doesn't really affect me either way.

 

[rynnor]

BBC News - Flying through the volcanic ash: a pilot's view

This is interesting because the pilot would completely miss the kind of damage the nasa plain experienced.

Hes talking about a dense ash cloud but the dispersed ash cloud is more insidious.

 

[strangely brown]

I think that it is all about balance of risk. In my mind, I think we treat risks with air travel completely differently to other forms of travel - There are lots of risks associated with any form of travel, and we happily accept them without a second thought, but for air travel...

Give people the information and leave it for people to decide the risk for themselves I say - If you think it is too risky, you can always re-book for a later date, or go to where you need to go to using a different mode of transport.

Given what's gone on, no airline is going to lobby to get airspace open again without giving safety serious consideration - Can you imagine what would happen if a jet crashed now because of the ash? No airline is going to put their reputation at risk like that.

Most of Europe resumed flights yesterday, including going through our airspace. And I flew today from Gatwick to Athens without any problems (well no more problems than the usual from SleazyJet).

Regs,
SB.

 

[MYstIC G]

Fuck me.

No. Stop asking everybody

I agree with Toht. I feel dirty...

That's known as a symptom. You'll drop dead within days

 

[rynnor]

I think that it is all about balance of risk. In my mind, I think we treat risks with air travel completely differently to other forms of travel

I think its because with air travel you have no control and very little chance of survival if the worst does happen.

 

[old.user4556]

I hate flying, hate it, HATE IT.

 

[TdC]

feh. flights are meant to be long and boring. I don't care for the short, exciting ones at all :/

 

[Tom]

I recently got a train from Manchester to London. I walked into the station, presented a bloke with my ticket, and walked onto the train. The train then went to London, where I got off and walked out of the station.

Why it can't be that simple on an aircraft, I don't know.

 

[old.user4556]

I can think of a lot of reasons, but any discussion of those reasons is likely to end up in an inflammatory discussion about 9/11 and Islam.

 

[Furr]

I can think of a lot of reasons, but any discussion of those reasons is likely to end up in an inflammatory discussion about 9/11 and Islam.

or Gingers

 

[JingleBells]

I recently got a train from Manchester to London. I walked into the station, presented a bloke with my ticket, and walked onto the train. The train then went to London, where I got off and walked out of the station.

Why it can't be that simple on an aircraft, I don't know.

Did you get a seat though? Whenever I've travelled on the Manchester - London route the trains are heaving (although I've travelled mainly in rush hour)