So...guns don't kill people...

[old.Tohtori]

But what does actually?

You get hit by a bullet. There's a big bleeding wound.

Do you die of blood loss? Does the infection somehow stop your heart?

What's the FINAL step, after a gun is fired, to your untimely death?

Couldn't find much of anything on google

 

[- English -]

id say loss of blood which stops the amount of oxygen to your vital organs, brain etc, unless u get hit in the head or somethin

 

[old.Tohtori]

id say loss of blood which stops the amount of oxygen to your vital organs, brain etc, unless u get hit in the head or somethin

I thought of the same, loss of blood being the obvious #1 reason, but in cases like headshots(boom),....i'm just overcurious on the final step

 

[tris-]

massive traumas can cause shock which shuts the body down. i think having some of your brain suddenly removed would be such a trauma.

 

[Laddey]

Gun's don't kill people...Robbers do!

 

[Sparda]

nearly all deaths are eventualy caused by lack of oxygen to the brain.

Heart attack - no blood going round the body - lack of oxygen to the brain
Stabed - lack of blood preasure - organ failure - lack of oxygen to the brain
Decapitation - no blood being pumped around, as you lungs are about 2 meters away - lack of oxygen to the brain
ect ect

Only ones that are not caused by lack of oxygen are probably direct brain injuries

 

[kirennia]

The neuro transmitters in your brain finally deciding enough is enough after not having enough 'charge' sent to them for a period of time.

 

[old.Tohtori]

So basically, when the electricity stops.

BUT...then we get to the interesting part. How can you be revived from the FINAL step?

I'm just thinking, is there a step we're forgetting?

 

[kirennia]

So basically, when the electricity stops.

BUT...then we get to the interesting part. How can you be revived from the FINAL step?

I'm just thinking, is there a step we're forgetting?

<yells CLEAR!>
*ZAP!*

Wtf, he's alive again Well it's one way you can be revived after 'technically' being dead anyway

 

[old.Tohtori]

<yells CLEAR!>
*ZAP!*

Wtf, he's alive again Well it's one way you can be revived after 'technically' being dead anyway

That's just my point, you're technically dead.

So you're NOT really dead.

So there must be a step between DEATH and that part where everything has shut down.

 

[kirennia]

It depends on what you class as being alive really. Actually active? Something going on in your brain? Could say when someones mind stops thinking but then surely someone in a coma would be technically dead too.

If someone's been dead for a week I'm pretty sure you could pump some electricity into their brain to make them appear to have some sort of motion going on up there, even if it isn't in the same pattern as real human thought. I guess that's not technically living though, it's just electricuting some poor sods corpse.


Short answer : There is no real answer!

 

[leviathane]

depends on where you're hit etc tbh.

 

[Solo]

It depends on how big the bullet is, how fast it's going, and where it hits you. Speed (muzzle velocity) is the most important factor; we learn from physics that kinetic energy, i.e., destructive power, increases arithmetically with mass, but geometrically with velocity. Thus you have more to fear from a rifle than from a handgun. Slow, small caliber bullets, and knives, too, for that matter, rarely kill anybody immediately, unless they sever a major artery or pierce the brain, and even then death often takes several minutes. In most such cases, death results from blood loss, brain damage, or (in long drawn-out cases) from infections such as gangrene resulting from contaminants borne into the body by the bullet or knife. An abdominal wound can result in mortal infection from fecal matter seeping out of the intestines.

Large bullets, and small bullets that travel very fast, such as those from an M-16 rifle, can kill almost instantly, mainly by reducing the region of impact literally to hamburger. They also generate something known as "hydrostatic shock." The body is composed largely of water and as such may be viewed as a hydraulic system. Liquid being noncompressible, the shock caused by the high-velocity entry of a large projectile is transmitted throughout the body, causing widespread organ damage and disruption of nervous functions. Even a wound to an arm or leg can be fatal in some instances.

There are numerous variations on the above, most which are undoubtedly familiar to readers of detective stories. Hollow-nosed bullets, for instance, flatten on impact and bulldoze their way through the body, making death almost certain, since the massive damage they cause is virtually irreparable. I could go on, but you get the basic idea.

Live QnA: How does a bullet kill a person?

Stopping power - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I'm sure there'd be an article about it in a FHM type magazine.

 

[Lamp]

Erm...massive tissue damage and blood loss ?

Solo's right.

If you get hit with a dumdum round in the back, you'll have a hole in your chest the size of a football

 

[DocWolfe]

If the brain doesn't receive blood then the lack of oxygen starts causing the cells to die, and then brain damage... if the damage is too extensive then you are dead.

 

[old.Tohtori]

Thanks for that by the way Solo, very definitive.

Still, what i'm after has changed a bit, evolved if you will, as this thread was made in the "heat of the idea".

Now i'm wondering more about the final step to death, as one can be revived from heart failure etc.

What pulls the final plug of "not coming back"?

One could bring a "soul leaves body" thing into this, but that would cause another can of worms and i don't want to go there.

Jsut curious if there's still parts about death, or rather dying, that aren't solved.

 

[Solo]

Jsut curious if there's still parts about death, or rather dying, that aren't solved.

Think thats touching on philosophy now. Do you mean everything that is living or just what are the last few moments of human life?

I don't think it is 'solved' if you knew that you'd know half the answer to what is / brings life?

 

[Lamp]

What pulls the final plug of "not coming back"?

Your body just gives up. Gets worn out. It has a limited lifespan. Things go wrong with it.

or....of course you can go with the whole religion / soul / spiritualist / psychic / life-after-death mumbo jumbo that people desparately cling onto becuase despite what they might say, deep down they simply cannot accept that once you're dead you're dead, gone, finished, expired.

 

[old.Tohtori]

Think thats touching on philosophy now. Do you mean everything that is living or just what are the last few moments of human life?

I don't think it is 'solved' if you knew that you'd know half the answer to what is / brings life?

Yeah i know, it's a rather borderline subject as such.

Just been thinking, since sometimes people come back from "shutdown" after 5 minutes of treatment, sometimes after 20, sometimes they are declared dead after 10 minutes. Some very rare cases they come back an hour after treatment has stopped(some cases are out there). Just numbers, but get the point.

Just thinking that there has to be some form of final switch that makes you, finally dead.

 

[tris-]

maybe some kind of will power involved. as you see all the time people hang on for ages so their family can bring in the new born baby to show them, then 5 mins later they die.

 

[Huntingtons]

Jsut curious if there's still parts about death, or rather dying, that aren't solved.

death isnt something that can be classified. we as such, imo, arent 1 organism but a alot of parts working together making us function. i dont know if i believe in concience (not as in guilt concience but the other concience). but. If the brain is without oxygen for more than 5? minutes it takes severe brain damage that will cause it to "forget" breathing/heart beating or the likes if the basic centers in the brain that makes us live are not working we ofc will die, but what about being kept alive fake? lets say the brain isnt working at all but we keep the heart beating making the blood flow, pumping the lungs full of air to give the blood oxygen and making the basic cells work, are we then alive? is concience the definition of life? or is it to stay alive without any help? what defines life (the opposite must then define death?)

 

[old.Tohtori]

maybe some kind of will power involved. as you see all the time people hang on for ages so their family can bring in the new born baby to show them, then 5 mins later they die.

Interesting point. Though then i'd have to ask, is willpower a subconscious thing and as such active even when "dead"?

 

[Ctuchik]

well, the guy thats getting shot obviously did something that pissed the shooter off, so technically speaking its himself thats getting him killed


or something.....

 

[Ctuchik]

Thanks for that by the way Solo, very definitive.

Still, what i'm after has changed a bit, evolved if you will, as this thread was made in the "heat of the idea".

Now i'm wondering more about the final step to death, as one can be revived from heart failure etc.

What pulls the final plug of "not coming back"?

One could bring a "soul leaves body" thing into this, but that would cause another can of worms and i don't want to go there.

Jsut curious if there's still parts about death, or rather dying, that aren't solved.

u can be kept alive with just about any injury bar incinerated/exploded into tiny tiny pieces/decapitated. as long as ur heart is pumping blood in the system u can technically be labeled as "alive" even if the brain have said "fuck this i'm outta here"

 

[Fafnir]

Most assault rifles are designed to cause severe injury instead of instantly kill people, cause an injured soldiers take up more resources than a dead one.

 

[kirennia]

Most assault rifles are designed to cause severe injury instead of instantly kill people, cause an injured soldiers take up more resources than a dead one.

Aye, and an injured soldier may have more friends about who will come and help him.

 

[Golly]

this is just a variation on the "meaning of life" and "what are we?" on a spiritual level toht

your looking for the final point at which we cease to function and the "soul" of whatever we want to call it, finally disapparates?

clever question, got me thinking now

Isn't there a fair few scenarios of reborn religous people after being technically dead for a period of time where they claim to have seen a higher being?

 

[old.Tohtori]

this is just a variation on the "meaning of life" and "what are we?" on a spiritual level toht

Actualy no, kinda, yeah.

If there is a soul thing, then yes, looking for the step where a soul leaves etc.

If there isn't, looking for the final checkout when the concious mind can't be regained.

The variation in death, times of death, amount of resuscitation needed, success of it...all that makes it hard to REALLY say that the final step is "heart stopped" or some such.

 

[Golly]

is there no one studying medicine who add a bit more here?

I can only speculate on this one but an accurate answer would be nice, see what your getting at- and its not like we have any anecdotal evidence to go off, even if someone is resussitated its a bit to much too ask what they felt at such a time as the mind obviously wouldn't be in a good state to recall anything, even if there was anything to be recalled

I think it is possible to say exactly why someone has died, heart failure or severe brain damage etc which causes vital organs to shut down and basically the brain gives up

but your looking for that next step, that final switch, the point of no return etc

Ever seen disneys hercules? your looking for the point at which the 3 witches cut the string-of-life (the blind ones who share an eyeball- actual greek mythology but not sure if the string bit was "accurate") and what exactly is happening at that exact moment?

 

[Vladamir]

If you're looking for a 'technical definition' as to what dead would be, it's Asystole. I.e no cardiac activity, so no contractions = no blood delivery to tissues/cells.

So when someone has a heart attack and they bring out the defibrillator they are technically dead for however long they're in Asystole for.

Same applies for the brain, once electrical activity ceases, processes will start going wrong/stopping and everything starts shutting down, as per vegetative state.