Smoking Ban

[Karl]

My point of the argument is drinking has caused more agro and costs the government alot more money than smoking does yet they havn't banned it yet ?

No... what they do is give pubs more time to stay open so that fuckers with no responsibility can get in there car, drive 50yards and then kill someone.

Which is fair ? Going home smelling of smoke or waking up in the hospital with someone telling you that you killed someone last night with you recklace driving ?

Its Completly off topic though... the subject is about the negatives and positivs of the smoking Ban... a law which IS going to happen

The extended drinking hours campaign will not have that effect anyway... why would people who are drinking from 7-11 be in any more of a fit state to drive then those drinking from 7-2? they would both be just as unsafe....

The staggerd closing times attemps to ensure ONE thing... that come 11 oclock you dont get thousands of drunk people appear on the street at the same time giving the 20 police officers on duty a bloddy hard time and causing fights with the other herds of drunk people about.

Start a Ban dringing thread, we can discuss it there!

 

[Rediknight]

To be honest most of the clubs i go to have signs declaring them "Drug free zones" Yeah, right!

Get inside and theres all kindsa unprescribable pharmaceuticals available. They don't want people smoking in clubs, christ, they can't even stop people smoking weed, doin pills, coke, speed, meth...

It's just another kneejerk reaction to a problem which is waaaay down the list of most important things to be dealt with.

One other point - i am an addict, i need cigarettes. I am being threatened with arrest/a fine etc. if i spark up anywhere other than in the confines of my own home.

I live down the road from a Heroin addict - he gets a state hand out, clean needles, his rent paid for and hasn't worked for best part of ten years. Not long ago, couple of years, he was caught in one of his neighbours houses trying to nick stuff - he was let off of jail because of his addiction and just got a caution.

This is a f*cked up country now, with a government who are just patching in laws to appease the loudest protesters, not necessarily the ones with the most urgent and important requests. Knee jerk, badly thought out reactions by faceless european beauracrats has leaked into our own government and is dragging us down the pan.

To be honest, im more offended by really hugely fat people who take up too much room on the bus, can't fit into and underground seat, take up half the aisle on plains, sound like a bus when they breath and usually need help getting around, but if i saw some obese m*therf*ucker munching a cake, went up and started telling them that what they are doing is unbelievable - "how can you treat your body like that? Do you know you're killing yourself?? Stop eating, right now!!!" then id be considered insensitive and rude.

I say again, not one death in this country can be proven 100% caused by passive smoking.

Cancer comes from many sources, but humans are selective in their protests and whilst there are countries like the US and the UK pumping thousands of cubic litres of pollution into the air and sea it makes no difference if i stand in a park and have a cig.

Anti-smokers - if you've got time to come and bother me about something im doing that is none of your business then maybe you should wonder if you need to find more exciting things to do with your lives?

drinker: "Excuse me, im breathing in a lot of your smoke!"
Bernard: "Ahh, don't worry about it, you can buy me a drink sometime..."

 

[Karl]

You havnt been banned from anywhere but your own home... you can still smoke outside... just not Inside public places which serv food... is that correct? latest i heard that was the current state of affairs...

Also regardless of the cancer causing side of smoking one thing that can be proven 100% is the fact that the smoking, even passivly, will get tar in you lungs causing you to have a lesser lung capacity, iritated throat, and a nicotine dose.


"I say again, not one death in this country can be proven 100% caused by passive smoking."

You are right, it is very difficult to prove this but to say that because you cant prove it dosnt happen isnt very clever... Every single credible expert in the field say that beyond a doubt passive smoking causes hundreds if not thousands of deaths per year...

http://www.hebs.scot.nhs.uk/researchcentre/pdf/MortalityStudy.pdf

I am a smoker by the way.

 

[Zede]

Are we going to see "illegal" dens were people go to smoke and have a pint ?

Thinking back to the speakeasys during prohibition in the US - i can forsee the law bashing down doors on premesis that dare to allow smoking !!

I cannot for the life of me understand why pubs cannot just have seperate rooms for smokers and non smokers.

 

[Rediknight]

I spoke to a guy from an anti-smoking charity just 5 minutes ago and he has confirmed that when he does talks in schools and colleges he isn't allowed to say that it causes deaths, as it can't actually be proven and it's caused him too many arguments in the past. He has to use phrases like, "Passive smoking is thought to cause thousands of deaths per year" and "It could cause damage to the lungs, sinuses, brain and heart, etc..."

It's a massively strange reaction to the issue though - it's basically saying to the real militant anti-smokers that smokers are free game to taunt and treat as lower class and that they are able to do what they like.

It's very similar to the whole film/tv censorship thing - if you don't want to watch it, watch something else. There will be plenty of non-smoking pubs, and i agree that smoking around food should be banned, so why not piss off to a non-smoking pub? If there is a blanket ban it takes away the smokers choice entirely - if landlords are offered the option to decide then it's up to the customers to decide if they stay or go, surely?

Far too simple - no laws required, no arguing, no spending thousands on biscuits for the monkey-trumpets in parliament' meetings, just plain old fashioned common sense.

 

[Olgaline]

I cannot for the life of me understand why pubs cannot just have seperate rooms for smokers and non smokers.

politics mate, simple as that. they could easily impliment it or rather allow venues with the capasity for it to have it, but ofcuase that would hurt the smaller venues, would properly also be harder to control, so from a goverment pov an all out ban is easier,

what people "especially smokers" need to realize is, you cannot mix logic and politics.. ;P

they have set thier minds to eradicating smoking from the face of the public scene, and for tho's of you that think this is a sudden "pop" phonomenon..your dead wrong, it's been a gradual thing over a long time period 15-20 years, and yes i do belive that this is simply yet another step towards a compleat smoking ban in all public areas be they indoors or outdoors, and tbh even tho i'm a smoker i can see how it's properbly a good thing in the long run, seen from a health perspective, i do not agree with the reasoning behind it, and well the arguements that alot of then none-smokers here thow out i have very little respec for and hold a mild ground at best, history as easily shown that social tabu's are far more effective than laws and bans...

take drinking & driving, thats been illigal for ages, but that didnt stop youngsters from doing it did it, infact up until the late 80's mid 90's it was infact "somewhat cool" however by changing social norms, and making it very uncool, infact dumb to do so, the number droped dramaticly over time amongst youngsters,

anyway nice debate altho it did turn preatty of topic from my origional idea, wich was to debate this type of legislation, not smoking in it self, but i know that was optimistic with this crowd..but i did enjoy some pov's like karls' so thanks for that, as for the chap talking about drinking, yes sure drinking is bad too, but well two wrongs dont make a right do they ? and be honest, would you really want a drinking ban ??? look on the bright side..ok so you cant have a smoke in the pub now, but hey..you can always drown your sorrows in the sweat nectar that is beer !

Lastly to the Holy-health-crusaders uke: you are faaaaar worse and waaay less understanding towards your fellow man than the people you so relentlassly persecute, "It's like Idiamin looking at Gandi going' your too intence"

../ane

 

[Haggus]

Its Completly off topic though... the subject is about the negatives and positivs of the smoking Ban... a law which IS going to happen

The extended drinking hours campaign will not have that effect anyway... why would people who are drinking from 7-11 be in any more of a fit state to drive then those drinking from 7-2? they would both be just as unsafe....

The staggerd closing times attemps to ensure ONE thing... that come 11 oclock you dont get thousands of drunk people appear on the street at the same time giving the 20 police officers on duty a bloddy hard time and causing fights with the other herds of drunk people about.

Start a Ban dringing thread, we can discuss it there!

Well it is isn't it ?

my point being that if they are to ban smoking (topic) why not ban drinking too ?

An Karl where do you live ? You stole my name >.< With a K is teh best though !

 

[Karl]

It is what? im confused

They are banning smoking because the smoking effects hundreds of thousands of non-smokers, where as drinking only effects the drinker (and possibly family/friends if it is excessive drinking). Drink driving... is banned... thats the thing that effects other people, unfortunatly people will always break these laws, justlike im sure some will break the smoking ban.

I live in the UK, South, Hampshire... Im sorry for stealing your name... its not even my real name... thats Tom.

 

[tris-]

if legal smoking is band, legal drinking should be banned.

then we can get rid of what we know as the public house. as soon as we have no smoking, traditional pubs will die. the ones that live in a concrete jungle who cant afford a garden or benches out side. those pubs, the best ones, will shut down.
then everyone will have to cram into a new shitty posh bar charging £3 a pint of foreign crap that tastes like tramps piss.

wtf @ PRIVATE CLUBS not being allowed smokers. private doesnt mean public where i live. private is members only. members joining somewhere should know what goes on. if a non smoker applys for a club and they dont research it, how can they complain when they get in that everyone smokes?

what are the landlords gonna do when 30 gypos are sat in a pub all smoking a fag. fuck all is my guess. or the police will come and the gypos will mow them down with shot guns and big 4x4 cars.

and nightclubs, lol at trying to stop smoking in there. people managed to shag each other in a night club. if they cant spot that then how will they spot someone with a fag? what if all the 1000 people in the club lit up in protest. will the 5 bouncers throw them out? ye right.

edit:
while out smoking a fag i thought of some more things. from what i understand it will be police officers dishing fines out. ok here is a scenario for you
a club near me is the biggest one in europe. i dunno how many people it can hold, lets say 3000 to be conservative about it.
i would guess at least half of them smoke. the outside area holds around 500 i would say. so what we will see is maybe 1000 people outside at a time. as you can see that wont fit.
now lets say these 1000 people all smoke inside. the bar person phones the police "OMG MATES, 1000 PEOPLE SMOKING SEND POLICE TO GIVE FINES ASAP".
so how many police are needed to fine that many people at once. well they gotta send about 500 right? i dont think my local force even has 500 officers.
"HELP ME MY HUSBAND IS BEATING ME UP". sorry, all our officers are issuing fines at a club full of smokers.
"OH REALLY, WELL THATS A BETTER USE OF TIME. STUPID SMOKERS, BYE".

 

[Haggus]

I'm disapointed in you for not being called Karl irl makes me sad !

 

[Karl]

I'm disapointed in you for not being called Karl irl makes me sad !

i have a friend called Karl.... does that cheer you up?

 

[Rediknight]

Does he go around trying to get you to say things like, "I AM NATURES GREATEST MIRACLE!!!" and did his mother tell him to never kiss a fool?

 

[Marc]

Stuff...

Youve hit the nail on the head tbh. Whilst im sort of for it, the smoking ban in public, how on earth can it be policed?

 

[tris-]

it cant.
all MPs have seemingly fell onto a giant barbed spike and had their anuses penetrated. this spike then hit the base of the brain and made them make stupid decisions.
because of this, everyone will suffer. including people who actually need police help when they are out dishing fines because OMG SOMEONE SMOKED.

 

[Karl]

it will be policed in the same way that underage drinking is policed i guess?

Its the Landlords responsibility to kick people out who are smoking in his pub... the police will do random walk ins to pubs/clubs if they find people smoking they will tel them of and fine the landlord... who will then very quickly put a stop to it.

 

[Marc]

How long until all pubs have bouncers who search you on entry? Similar to being searched for drugs on entry to clubs? Its easy to conceal drugs but would be more difficult to conceal cigs.

 

[Karl]

Cigs are not illegal you can still take them in.. you just cant smoke them inside

 

[Marc]

Cigs are not illegal you can still take them in.. you just cant smoke them inside

good point!!!!!

 

[Rediknight]

Hmm, i just heard a rumour that smoking WON'T be banned in the House of Commons bar... now this sounds a bit f*cked up... if you'll pardon the flemish...

 

[tris-]

Its the Landlords responsibility to kick people out who are smoking in his pub... the police will do random walk ins to pubs/clubs if they find people smoking they will tel them of and fine the landlord... who will then very quickly put a stop to it.

ah i see, i should of seen it from the start.

rather than having those same police walking outside, they will now instead go in and go through a lengthly process of giving fines to the landlord.

damn, that sure is a better use of police time. just to think, those police persons could of been patrolling the street instead!

yes, this is a much much better use of police time.

and if its not banned in the house of commons, something is fucked.

unless they get the drinks for free. if they had to pay for the drinks then it should be illegal to smoke there.

see this is the thing. i could make a public building, and give beer away for free. people could smoke there.

but no, its not good to give it away. you need to charge for it. thats why a pub is a pub. you cant smoke where you buy a drink.

what about the totally free drinks you get? like BOGOFs. can i smoke with one drink and not the other?

where does the crazyness end!