Sink or Swim?

[Scouse]

So, same old summer stories about people drowning in the sea / in rivers. Largely Asian families (IIRC it's the third story about an Asian family that have jumped in after one of their kids and, very tragically, drowned). Got lots of Asian mates and probably only 25% of them are competent swimmers beyond doggy paddle for 5 mins.

I'm nagging a mate about learning to swim because, at 52, he's just had his second child. What if Britain sinks? Gotta be able to tread water long enough for the French to save us. They don't call them Frogs for nothing you know.

So: CAN YOU SWIM? 800m minimum. Think you're able to tread water for minimum 30 mins? Maybe float for an hour or two if your life depended on it?

If you can't - never mind the risk - you're missing out on one of life's greatest pleasures.

If you can sort of swim and don't get why swimming is amazing, then you've only ever done it in shit places. Get a mask and snorkel and head to a beach.

 

[SilverHood]

I used to swim 20-30km a week when I was a teenager. Five or six 90-120 minute sessions a week for years. You could be the greatest swimmer in the world but if you get in trouble in the water, you're really in trouble no matter how good you are. The worst thing that ever happened to me was a bad case of leg cramp. I was in the middle lane and had just pushed off the wall when I feel cramp coming on. No biggy, I can make it to the other end in no time. I got calf cramp and foot cramps fairly regularly (every two-three weeks), but this time, my whole leg locked up. Couldn't bend my knee. Then my other leg began cramping hard. Same thing. It was like having two deadweights tied around my waist. I flipped onto my back and tried making my way to the end of the pool, but I was getting dragged underwater between strokes, and I was in the way of other swimmers going full speed. If they colided with me I'd sink. So I had to pull myself onto the lane ropes. Got myself to the end of the pool but struggled to get out on my own. Once I got out, my legs were so stiff that they poked straight out over the pool edge, like some sort of calisthenics exercide. I got some help onto a bench, some water, and after 5 minutes, I was able to force my knees to bend. No more swimming that day. If that had happened in the ocean, ooooof, I don't want to think about it. I might have made it to shore. Maybe not. Even today I am extremely comfortable in water and can probably float / thread water for a few hours if my life depended on it. But if you cramp up, your chances are low. If you're not an experienced swimmer and you get in trouble, you'll panic and drown almost every time. The key to survival is energy conservation. One small arm movement, one small leg movement, just enough to keep you afloat. Ideally you have practised this before you need to know how much movement you need.

 

[Scouse]

Yep @SilverHood. 100% agree with everything you wrote. I've not had cramp that bad (single leg). But I know what you mean.

However. You can swim. The chances of you drowning are really really low. If you got into trouble on the sea (riptide etc.) you'd probably be able to get yourself out of it, or at least be able to keep yourself afloat until a rescue happened.

Maybe I've too high an expectation of average joe. Lifelong kayaker so I have very strong feelings on the subject.

 

[Deebs]

@SilverHood you might be a great swimmer but fuck me I was sinking when reading that wall of text.

 

[Scouse]

I'll admit @Deebs - I was hoping for some paragraphing

 

[Deebs]

I'll admit @Deebs - I was hoping for some paragraphing

Yeh some paragraphing might have helped with your cramping

 

[SilverHood]

Yeh some paragraphing might have helped with your cramping

Well, if I had an edit button I'd go back and reformat. Too late!

 

[Ormorof]

Covid has really done a number on kids ability to swim around here, the kids that were in the 2-4 year age group when it started missed out on years of practice at an age when getting confident in the water is so important for future swimming ability

To add a bit more in an edit - this will have interesting implications when they are adults too, if they have no interest their kids probably won’t either

 

[Scouse]

this will have interesting implications when they are adults too, if they have no interest their kids probably won’t either

This.

If your parents don't swim... this is why I'm in favour of mandatory swimming lessons. Can be extra-curricular, but if we don't want ethnic minorities in the UK drowning at massively elevated rates then we need a cultural shift.

 

[Gwadien]

This.

If your parents don't swim... this is why I'm in favour of mandatory swimming lessons. Can be extra-curricular, but if we don't want ethnic minorities in the UK drowning at massively elevated rates then we need a cultural shift.

There are mandatory swimming lessons, it's just that many schools in the country don't have swimming baths anywhere near them so it's impossible, plus practically every school that did have a swimming pool have lost theirs since Academisation - they're a massive money pit. There's a school near me that had one and the local primary schools used it too, but being businesses they were like 'what the primary schools coming dont cover costs? bin it!'

Plus, dunno about you lot, but the council swimming baths around me are 1960s disgusting places...

 

[Scouse]

Plus, dunno about you lot, but the council swimming baths around me are 1960s disgusting places...

They'll be swimming in shit outside the baths anyway, so they may as well get used to it.

 

[Scouse]

I mean, we could take a more evolutionary angle for this - if you can't be arsed teaching your kids to swim, they'll get removed from the gene pool at a faster rate.

Personal responsibility.

 

[Raven]

There are mandatory swimming lessons, it's just that many schools in the country don't have swimming baths anywhere near them so it's impossible, plus practically every school that did have a swimming pool have lost theirs since Academisation - they're a massive money pit. There's a school near me that had one and the local primary schools used it too, but being businesses they were like 'what the primary schools coming dont cover costs? bin it!'

Plus, dunno about you lot, but the council swimming baths around me are 1960s disgusting places...

The local primary school still goes to a crappy Victorian place in town, that was crap when I went. The upper school I went to has fantastic facilities, mostly because Sharon Davies is/was married to Derek Redmond, who went to the school.

I am a strong swimmer, but my wife is terrified of water after nearly drowning as a child, and cannot swim. I have given up trying to get her to "get over it"

 

[Raven]

Topical. Nobody can swim in these conditions, should never have been in or near the water.

Bystander video shows teen lifeguard's dramatic ocean rescue

The 16-year-old lifeguard rescued a 10-year-old who had been swept offshore at a California beach.

www.bbc.co.uk

I think education about the dangers of water is just as important as learning to swim.

 

[Gwadien]

Topical. Nobody can swim in these conditions, should never have been in or near the water.

Bystander video shows teen lifeguard's dramatic ocean rescue

The 16-year-old lifeguard rescued a 10-year-old who had been swept offshore at a California beach.

www.bbc.co.uk

I think education about the dangers of water is just as important as learning to swim.

Those waves are crazy!

 

[Scouse]

Surf beach.

Love playing in surf

 

[Billargh]

I can't swim, I've never been able to, if the worst happens I'm accepting my fate.

I can barely even float in a swimming pool, in fact I'm pretty convinced I have some biological condition that prevents me from doing so.

 

[Gwadien]

in fact I'm pretty convinced I have some biological condition that prevents my from doing so.

Are you intentionally baiting Scouse or?

 

[Billargh]

Are you intentionally baiting Scouse or?

It's probably been years since doing this and it's no doubt overdue, but nope!

 

[Scouse]

I think you're missing out big time @Billargh. But I get it - I hate swimming pools.

Chlorine in the eyes, loud, boring, nothing to see. They're useful as they're safe places to learn the basics, but swimming is for rivers, lakes and the sea, especially with your mates, where there's stuff to see and do.

Swimming only in a swimming pool is akin to only being allowed to ride your bike in a school playground. It's a fucking yawnfest, but at least you learn the skills you need to start...

 

[Scouse]

E.G.: Went swimming here a couple of weeks ago:

Spoiler

Although, with the current drought, I think this will now be mostly piss.

 

[gunner440]

I've never really thought much about swimming as over here it's kind of the norm in summer whether it's in a pool, lake or the beach. You end up getting a lot of respect for the water from a very young age as well as getting to know the markers / flag colours - red, green, yellow, purple etc.

I guess there's less of a culture over there due to the weather but hey, if you get into the sea and can't swim then maybe getting into the sea / getting in without training wasn't the best idea and maybe that's why those Asian dudes now belong to the ocean.

In hindsight growing up playing with the undercurrents after the waves crash probably wasn't the most sensible thing.

If you can sort of swim and don't get why swimming is amazing, then you've only ever done it in shit places. Get a mask and snorkel and head to a beach.

Agree on this.

Also, I did a freediving course a few years ago. I wouldn't recommend it as I feel the risks are too high. Scuba all the way!

 

[Scouse]

It's been the norm for the 'indigenous' British population for a long while. Bleak, raining, cold beach holidays eating chips out of newspaper and kids shivering in the sea. But they were still IN it - and we didn't care - and when it's baking out, like right now, beaches are rammed. You'd expect that from an island nation

But more recent immigrant populations seem to not have that as part of their culture, hence the increasing number of stories about whole families drowning in rivers and lakes. Seems to fit a pattern - kid jumps in, gets into trouble, whole family jumps in afterwards in an effort to save them, rest of family drowns...

But yeah - swimming is awesome. Being in water is awesome. It's just fucking great.


Anyway - what you been up to @gunner440 ? Keeping well, just lurking?

 

[old.Osy]

I can sort of float for maybe 5-10 minutes.

 

[Embattle]

View: https://youtu.be/3OBCFEEZe1U?si=uvurn-WKSUdz39sF

 

[Gwadien]

View: https://youtu.be/3OBCFEEZe1U?si=uvurn-WKSUdz39sF

'We'll rescue you in a sec, just need to make an advert, sorry about your friend but we needed to make a point'

 

[Scouse]

'We'll rescue you in a sec, just need to make an advert, sorry about your friend but we needed to make a point'

What is it that pisses you off about that?

RNLI - a public donation-funded organisation - rescue people all year round in shocking conditions. They are volunteers - and it's a dangerous job.

Putting out an advert that illustrates that people can help themselves if they get into shit seems eminently sensible. It's pretty clear teachers and parents aren't showing kids how not to drown isn't it. They're probably just sniping at the volunteer organisation from the sidelines.

 

[gunner440]

But yeah - swimming is awesome. Being in water is awesome. It's just fucking great.


Anyway - what you been up to @gunner440 ? Keeping well, just lurking?

The peace and silence you can feel sitting at the bottom of the sea (10-15m) and just looking around at a different world is so surreal. Obviously you need to be in calm waters where sand isn't being swished around but yeah.

And no, I wish I was able to lurk but I believe @caLLous and I have the same(ish) issue as we predominantly access the forums from abroad - Unable to access FH for the last few months

When I lose access it's usually for several months, almost a year in one case! I'm trying to work out what causes it but I need it to happen again so I can send Deebs the data.

'We'll rescue you in a sec, just need to make an advert, sorry about your friend but we needed to make a point'

Energy conservation is the most important thing in these situations. If they find themselves swimming out too far / being carried out too far then the effects of them fighting to get to the surface will just fatigue them and land them in a situation which is comparable to falling down unable to move except they wouldn't be able to breathe. I think it was mentioned above about the ability to tread water. I think it should also be added that people underestimate the amount of energy to tread water for an extended period of time.

Just being able to not panic for 2-3 seconds is enough to save yourself.

Regarding ocean rescue, one of the things we had to do in one of the dive certifications was learn to aid someone that was drowning. I remember thinking "if that happens to some stranger in real life the fuck him he is gonna drown and I'm getting out of here" 'cos the risk for the person helping vs. someone in a panic and drowning is higher for the one helping. For these people to go out rescuing the drowning on a voluntary basis is just mad in my eyes.

 

[Scouse]

For these people to go out rescuing the drowning on a voluntary basis is just mad in my eyes.

RNLI have lifeboat stations dotted all around the country. They do have volunteer lifeguards - but respond to boats that are in trouble - including very stormy waters and are involved in sesrch and rescue. (And in the summer idiots on SUPs and inflatable dinghies that have blown out to sea in an offshore wind).

https://rnli.org/

Shows the power of volunteer charity. If I lived close enough to the sea I'd be doing that in my retirement. (Something adjacent anyway).

 

[Gwadien]

i was joking but ok