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NightyP
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Zerg Savage grps on sight? in odins or HW, does not really matter in emain.
Discuss
Discuss
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living
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- #2
dont you always?
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Archeon
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- #3
If it makes you feel better, bring a big zerg though cause everyone knows FoTM-random savage groups can pwn 4fg of albis even if they use SoS/BoF 
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NightyP
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- #4
and how would a rr4 alb grp beat a rr4 savage grp? or a rr4 hib grp beat a rr4 savage grp?
or a rr4 hib grp beat a rr4 savage grp?
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congin
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- #5
never zerg any groups anywhere imo... keep trying to beat them, if you can't go away
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Cap'n Sissyfoo
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- #6
Just leave 'em alone. Boycott all the frontier zones until all the savage groups disband and roll another char.
...or something. I don't care really. Would be nice to read something on these forums that isn't a savage whine.
...or something. I don't care really. Would be nice to read something on these forums that isn't a savage whine.
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zelur
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- #7
why do you even ask?.. alb tard.
You guys zerg 7 days / week anyway.
dork.
You guys zerg 7 days / week anyway.
dork.
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NightyP
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- #8
Rich coming from a Red guard player.
Mid tard.
Mid tard.
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zelur
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- #9
& what is that supoused to mean? Are you trying to bring up something that
used to happen like ... 6 MONTHS ago?
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dimerian
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NightP 1 - Phixi 0
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Belomar
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- #11
You're like a broken record, Phixi. Kind of sad to see what has become of you.
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Lumikki
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- #12
I agree with that. Only zerg other zergs.
xx
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-Wedge-
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- #13
Originally posted by dimerian
NightP 1 - Phixi 0
But back on the subject :
Tbh, it depends a bit on the mid-setup... If its only 2 healers and a shaman, you should get pretty far with a good alb/hib setup... Not easy, but you could kill that group if you played well...
If, however, its 3 healers and a shaman... I'd say... Feck um, zerg... There's no way a low-rr alb/hib group can kill that...
You could try a non-zerg way, but it would require a sacrifice group, send 1 group in, let them get killed (mids have used up rr's / power), then finish the job... This worked fine with JH
(ok, the sacrifice group was FC )Why let 1 group spoil everyone's fun in a certain zone, albs/hibs can never match the healing power & damage output of a group like JH...
If its a rr4-alb/hib group vs rr8-9 mid, I'd definitly say get 2FG for them... Heck, with 2FG there's still a possibility you lose... I've seen NP / JH do it several times...
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schinkaar
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- #14
wedge have alot of good points, altho i think sos+2x bof and good play should be enuff (assuming same RR) to beat both JH and NP. Granted this means u can only go head to head with them once every 30 min, but thats just the way it is .
.
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parlain
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- #15
Me 
Mag
Mag
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Rollie
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- #16
And low rr "perfect" setup mid groups cant compete with high rr hib groups, dunno about alb cause not come across high rr alb tank group. IE rr8 mercs/clerics/sorc/minst
Hibby can match healing power, and offensive, hibs can actually field as good tank groups imho, 3 druids, 1 bard, 4 Bm. They have 4 healing classes same as mids and 4 deter tanks which is more than mids, albs do have it harder, but like i said i havent come across a high rr albion tank group, but TB/BF certainly give us a very hard battle.
Our guild group is rr4/5 and we lose many and win many. The fights we lose are too high rr groups and the ones we win are usually against lower rr, which imho sounds kinda right.
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vintervargen
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- #17
no disease, castable or insta.
no interruptable tauntshouts.
no insta interrupt spells on druids.
1 demezzer, not 3.
no insta ae stun.
no PR.
no insta 1800 range root RA.
interruptable end regen.
GP.
3 pets.
maybe insta ae root/ae root.
insta lull.
compared to eachother, hibs dont have a "good" tank grp imho.
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Rollie
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- #18
3xGP making healer CC almost useless, also 3xGp should allow you to purge aoe disease etc something albion doesnt have.
insta root
insta aoe root on a shorter timer than IoTD
3xpets to interupt healers/shammie
insta lull to permanently interupt, thus giving an advantage in the aoe mezz casting battle. Mids might use 150 radius insta stun at times to "get the better mezz off" but this is on a 10 min timer oppose to lulls what 5-10 sec timer?
4 determine tanks not 3 like mids
biggest problem fighting hibs is pets, they interupt so much, as well as casting aoe mezz when the bard is insta lulling, as said before most healers are 44 pac 30 mend, giving a 150 radius aoe stun, it will effects 1-3 chars at most.
Hibs can certainly field more than capable groups vs mids.
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Rulke-RM
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- #19
no disease, castable or insta.
15% disease snare compared to 4xPF which is 50%(?)
no interruptable tauntshouts.
Insta lull, not quite the same but then again amnesia stops _any_ cast, even QC and MoC
no insta interrupt spells on druids.
Lol? 3xpets are pretty darn uber at interupting too, I once saw Ola's pet solo 3fg! (honest)
1 demezzer, not 3.
Yup, bit of a bummer. However 3x GP+purge+DETx4
no insta ae stun.
Bit of a drawback yes, not many healers use this commonly though and in many ways insta root is far superior
no PR.
Woop-de-fecking-do. You cant rezz someone every 30 mins with no buffs, no CC immunity and a life expectancy of 5 seconds.
no insta 1800 range root RA.
<cough>1875<cough> but dont see what advantage ichor would have vs this group. On tanks it lasts about the same as AE stun, i mostly save it for add groups or when theres a fg tanks on a healer who're root immune.
interruptable end regen.
End pots are teh cheap
15% disease snare compared to 4xPF which is 50%(?)
no interruptable tauntshouts.
Insta lull, not quite the same but then again amnesia stops _any_ cast, even QC and MoC
no insta interrupt spells on druids.
Lol? 3xpets are pretty darn uber at interupting too, I once saw Ola's pet solo 3fg! (honest)
1 demezzer, not 3.
Yup, bit of a bummer. However 3x GP+purge+DETx4
no insta ae stun.
Bit of a drawback yes, not many healers use this commonly though and in many ways insta root is far superior
no PR.
Woop-de-fecking-do. You cant rezz someone every 30 mins with no buffs, no CC immunity and a life expectancy of 5 seconds.
no insta 1800 range root RA.
<cough>1875<cough> but dont see what advantage ichor would have vs this group. On tanks it lasts about the same as AE stun, i mostly save it for add groups or when theres a fg tanks on a healer who're root immune.
interruptable end regen.
End pots are teh cheap
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vintervargen
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- #20
no disease, castable or insta.
15% disease snare compared to 4xPF which is 50%(?)
disease also affects healing you know, also snares our support.
no interruptable tauntshouts.
Insta lull, not quite the same but then again amnesia stops _any_ cast, even QC and MoC
gets resisted very often, drains mana, and are on 1 class, not 3. does not work against insta spells.
no insta interrupt spells on druids.
Lol? 3xpets are pretty darn uber at interupting too, I once saw Ola's pet solo 3fg! (honest)
pets are very different from insta attack speed debuff.
1 demezzer, not 3.
Yup, bit of a bummer. However 3x GP+purge+DETx4
healers have purge also afaik. and 3x savages outdmges 3x druids.
no insta ae stun.
Bit of a drawback yes, not many healers use this commonly though and in many ways insta root is far superior
insta stun is very good to use against leader/bard/mincer/sorc, so he stops for a while, and you can land a castable mez.
no PR.
Woop-de-fecking-do. You cant rezz someone every 30 mins with no buffs, no CC immunity and a life expectancy of 5 seconds.
100% power.
no insta 1800 range root RA.
<cough>1875<cough> but dont see what advantage ichor would have vs this group. On tanks it lasts about the same as AE stun, i mostly save it for add groups or when theres a fg tanks on a healer who're root immune.
again, almost always grants a castable mezz/ae disease. if disease is GP'd, just recast it.
interruptable end regen.
End pots are teh cheap
so thats why mid tanks became uber when it came then.
15% disease snare compared to 4xPF which is 50%(?)
disease also affects healing you know, also snares our support.
no interruptable tauntshouts.
Insta lull, not quite the same but then again amnesia stops _any_ cast, even QC and MoC
gets resisted very often, drains mana, and are on 1 class, not 3. does not work against insta spells.
no insta interrupt spells on druids.
Lol? 3xpets are pretty darn uber at interupting too, I once saw Ola's pet solo 3fg! (honest)
pets are very different from insta attack speed debuff.
1 demezzer, not 3.
Yup, bit of a bummer. However 3x GP+purge+DETx4
healers have purge also afaik. and 3x savages outdmges 3x druids.
no insta ae stun.
Bit of a drawback yes, not many healers use this commonly though and in many ways insta root is far superior
insta stun is very good to use against leader/bard/mincer/sorc, so he stops for a while, and you can land a castable mez.
no PR.
Woop-de-fecking-do. You cant rezz someone every 30 mins with no buffs, no CC immunity and a life expectancy of 5 seconds.
100% power.
no insta 1800 range root RA.
<cough>1875<cough> but dont see what advantage ichor would have vs this group. On tanks it lasts about the same as AE stun, i mostly save it for add groups or when theres a fg tanks on a healer who're root immune.
again, almost always grants a castable mezz/ae disease. if disease is GP'd, just recast it.
interruptable end regen.
End pots are teh cheap
so thats why mid tanks became uber when it came then.
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Rulke-RM
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- #21
disease also affects healing you know, also snares our support.
Disease only affects spread heals if the healer is diseased. so omg omg he has to cast one 2sec cast time spell.
gets resisted very often, drains mana, and are on 1 class, not 3. does not work against insta spells
If lull gets resisted it interupts normally, so what was your point again?
pets are very different from insta attack speed debuff.
Pets are very different, dont require LoS and are fire and forget.
3x savages outdamage 3xdruids? get decent druids
insta stun is very good to use against leader/bard/mincer/sorc, so he stops for a while, and you can land a castable mez.
Insta root will do the same thing, for a much longer duration
100% power
PR is only good against noob groups, otherwise the PRed person gets instaganked
if disease is GP'd
There is a cure spell for it you know, and the hib version is longer range than mids version. 4 people can cure in that group, disease has no immunity troo, but the shaman has no immunity to 4 BMs.
so thats why mid tanks became uber when it came then
Erm did they? I wasnt aware there had been much change apart from zerks, and that was a style bonus thing, warriors got more WS too.
Not sure what BaF's group setup is, but their assist team rips my shaman apart in seconds sometimes.
Disease only affects spread heals if the healer is diseased. so omg omg he has to cast one 2sec cast time spell.
gets resisted very often, drains mana, and are on 1 class, not 3. does not work against insta spells
If lull gets resisted it interupts normally, so what was your point again?
pets are very different from insta attack speed debuff.
Pets are very different, dont require LoS and are fire and forget.
3x savages outdamage 3xdruids? get decent druids
insta stun is very good to use against leader/bard/mincer/sorc, so he stops for a while, and you can land a castable mez.
Insta root will do the same thing, for a much longer duration
100% power
PR is only good against noob groups, otherwise the PRed person gets instaganked
if disease is GP'd
There is a cure spell for it you know, and the hib version is longer range than mids version. 4 people can cure in that group, disease has no immunity troo, but the shaman has no immunity to 4 BMs.
so thats why mid tanks became uber when it came then
Erm did they? I wasnt aware there had been much change apart from zerks, and that was a style bonus thing, warriors got more WS too.
Not sure what BaF's group setup is, but their assist team rips my shaman apart in seconds sometimes.
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vintervargen
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- #22
disease also affects healing you know, also snares our support.
Disease only affects spread heals if the healer is diseased. so omg omg he has to cast one 2sec cast time spell.
2sec is alot of time vs savages. btw, your healers only use spreadheal? disease also have no immunity timer as mez have for example.
gets resisted very often, drains mana, and are on 1 class, not 3. does not work against insta spells
If lull gets resisted it interupts normally, so what was your point again?
so my point was it does not always work against QC/normal cast if the caster got alot of dex.
pets are very different from insta attack speed debuff.
Pets are very different, dont require LoS and are fire and forget.
can be mezzed and 1 shotted.
3x savages outdamage 3xdruids? get decent druids
one druid heals for ~500 smth, one savage does also ~500 at the same time.
insta stun is very good to use against leader/bard/mincer/sorc, so he stops for a while, and you can land a castable mez.
Insta root will do the same thing, for a much longer duration
root doesnt prevent mincer/sorc/bard to insta or qc the pac healer.
100% power
PR is only good against noob groups, otherwise the PRed person gets instaganked
still one more man to kill.
if disease is GP'd
There is a cure spell for it you know, and the hib version is longer range than mids version. 4 people can cure in that group, disease has no immunity troo, but the shaman has no immunity to 4 BMs.
you dont have time to cure dis, not when you gotta heal someone with 3 savages on him, or rezz someone that got instakilled, or mezz something, or itnerrupt something.
so thats why mid tanks became uber when it came then
Erm did they? I wasnt aware there had been much change apart from zerks, and that was a style bonus thing, warriors got more WS too.
wonder why there were no mid tank-grps-with-alot-of-end-pots before end regen then.
Not sure what BaF's group setup is, but their assist team rips my shaman apart in seconds sometimes.
they kill a shammy in 2x the time savages kill a druid.
in conclusion - go play hib, and see for yourself
Disease only affects spread heals if the healer is diseased. so omg omg he has to cast one 2sec cast time spell.
2sec is alot of time vs savages. btw, your healers only use spreadheal? disease also have no immunity timer as mez have for example.
gets resisted very often, drains mana, and are on 1 class, not 3. does not work against insta spells
If lull gets resisted it interupts normally, so what was your point again?
so my point was it does not always work against QC/normal cast if the caster got alot of dex.
pets are very different from insta attack speed debuff.
Pets are very different, dont require LoS and are fire and forget.
can be mezzed and 1 shotted.
3x savages outdamage 3xdruids? get decent druids
one druid heals for ~500 smth, one savage does also ~500 at the same time.
insta stun is very good to use against leader/bard/mincer/sorc, so he stops for a while, and you can land a castable mez.
Insta root will do the same thing, for a much longer duration
root doesnt prevent mincer/sorc/bard to insta or qc the pac healer.
100% power
PR is only good against noob groups, otherwise the PRed person gets instaganked
still one more man to kill.
if disease is GP'd
There is a cure spell for it you know, and the hib version is longer range than mids version. 4 people can cure in that group, disease has no immunity troo, but the shaman has no immunity to 4 BMs.
you dont have time to cure dis, not when you gotta heal someone with 3 savages on him, or rezz someone that got instakilled, or mezz something, or itnerrupt something.
so thats why mid tanks became uber when it came then
Erm did they? I wasnt aware there had been much change apart from zerks, and that was a style bonus thing, warriors got more WS too.
wonder why there were no mid tank-grps-with-alot-of-end-pots before end regen then.
Not sure what BaF's group setup is, but their assist team rips my shaman apart in seconds sometimes.
they kill a shammy in 2x the time savages kill a druid.
in conclusion - go play hib, and see for yourself
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Rulke-RM
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- #23
Some folk are just too "glass half empty", instead of working with what you have you whine about what you dont have.
Garba's group used to beat us regulary, BaF and IG are both very tough fights, where we have to be playing well to win. Even the Brethren med-low RR alb group beat us 3 times in a row one night
But then again, they probably levelled all their chars instead of buying them on ebay.
Garba's group used to beat us regulary, BaF and IG are both very tough fights, where we have to be playing well to win. Even the Brethren med-low RR alb group beat us 3 times in a row one night
But then again, they probably levelled all their chars instead of buying them on ebay.
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schinkaar
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- #24
The savage vs bm dmg comparison havent been done afaik, provide data and logs and you can say shit like svg outdamage bm:S 2x. And yea healers have to interrupt, heal, CC kite and whatnot, we still have time to cure disease (if we take us time ofc). Then again if ur busy spamming SH like the uber dr00d u are i guess its hard.
And incase you didnt know,anyone being interrupted is not hindered to just melee interrupt, your pets wont be oneshot if u run with nat druids, id prolly run with 2 but 3 is def an option. And u also forgot to mention tw and flurry, im pretty sure 4 BM:s using this will outdmg 3 svges on the first target. While AM isnt much to cheer for it still ticks up to reasonable amounts if u manage to keep whatever is being hit alive for 10s+ (garbas grp did this with a eld, u cant do it with a dr00d?). Now as rulke pointed out vs 3 svges u face no PF whatsoever, and if u think its hard to get away from 3 tanks without PF then u just suck, or have no clue about teamwork. Also you seem to forget u can just cast a regular ress, granted you have it abit harder (asd/taunt) but most of the mid "PR:s" is just regular resses anyway.
The savage grp is prolly better tho, mainly due to taunt/asd but also the horrible hib endregen. I whouldnt say its more than 20-30% stronger still tho (after asd/taunt fix), while u make it out like its impossible to win. Ive run with high RR "good" people and still lost to a FG hibs, or have had close fights. I have also had good fights vs garba/domain grp that where very even (think it was 50/50 but dont know tbh). So more or less its either all mids suck, and some are "ok". Or all hibs are good and some are so uber they defy the laws of nature (im sure this is what u think). Or theres some mid grps that are "good" as there are some hib groups that are "good" and the ratio is more or less the same.
And incase you didnt know,anyone being interrupted is not hindered to just melee interrupt, your pets wont be oneshot if u run with nat druids, id prolly run with 2 but 3 is def an option. And u also forgot to mention tw and flurry, im pretty sure 4 BM:s using this will outdmg 3 svges on the first target. While AM isnt much to cheer for it still ticks up to reasonable amounts if u manage to keep whatever is being hit alive for 10s+ (garbas grp did this with a eld, u cant do it with a dr00d?). Now as rulke pointed out vs 3 svges u face no PF whatsoever, and if u think its hard to get away from 3 tanks without PF then u just suck, or have no clue about teamwork. Also you seem to forget u can just cast a regular ress, granted you have it abit harder (asd/taunt) but most of the mid "PR:s" is just regular resses anyway.
The savage grp is prolly better tho, mainly due to taunt/asd but also the horrible hib endregen. I whouldnt say its more than 20-30% stronger still tho (after asd/taunt fix), while u make it out like its impossible to win. Ive run with high RR "good" people and still lost to a FG hibs, or have had close fights. I have also had good fights vs garba/domain grp that where very even (think it was 50/50 but dont know tbh). So more or less its either all mids suck, and some are "ok". Or all hibs are good and some are so uber they defy the laws of nature (im sure this is what u think). Or theres some mid grps that are "good" as there are some hib groups that are "good" and the ratio is more or less the same.
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vintervargen
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- #25
you really dont think savages does 2x more dmg then BMs?
watch igrvr for example, alme does maybe ~200 with mainhand using bb's stick (taunt), and perhaps 250-270 with behind or side styles. if offhand swings that would be another 80-100. a singlehit from mumin or sushii would be about 150-200 unstyled. a styled single hit is 200-300. a styled quadhit from behind is 300 + 150 + 150 + 150 = 750.
this is the dmg they do en my bard, cannot speak for other classes.
yes it will be easier when asd/taunt shout gets fixed.
mids cannot loose unless you do a mistake, theres the differance. if you play ok/good/perfect you dont loose, whereas hibs have to play perfect to win.
i would love to see np or jh meet us with 3 healers 1 shammy 3 zerks 1 skald setup, when we have 1 bard 3 druids 4 BM's. would be fun to see the differance, dont you think?
watch igrvr for example, alme does maybe ~200 with mainhand using bb's stick (taunt), and perhaps 250-270 with behind or side styles. if offhand swings that would be another 80-100. a singlehit from mumin or sushii would be about 150-200 unstyled. a styled single hit is 200-300. a styled quadhit from behind is 300 + 150 + 150 + 150 = 750.
this is the dmg they do en my bard, cannot speak for other classes.
yes it will be easier when asd/taunt shout gets fixed.
mids cannot loose unless you do a mistake, theres the differance. if you play ok/good/perfect you dont loose, whereas hibs have to play perfect to win.
i would love to see np or jh meet us with 3 healers 1 shammy 3 zerks 1 skald setup, when we have 1 bard 3 druids 4 BM's. would be fun to see the differance, dont you think?
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Rulke-RM
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- #26
tbh if we beat you with thanes you'd still whine
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belth
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- #27
Would you play in a thane-group? NO zerkers, NO savages, NO warriors.
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Rulke-RM
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- #28
Mjollner assist > VP
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vintervargen
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- #29
i ask you again,
it would be fun to see the differance if you would use zerks instead of savages, dont you think?
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Rulke-RM
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- #30
*really patronising voice, like you would use on a baby*
Yes, it would be weally weally intewesting!
Especially what you would say when they zerked up with 5.5+spd weapons, haste and celerity and starting hitting for 1200+ every 1.5-2.0 seconds.
Seriously though, what does your continuing whining achieve? It's not like mythic read these boards, hell its not like mythic read any boards. You will change nothing, any group in any realm would be stupid to not use the best tools at hand and at the moment the savage is the best light tank.
So please, if you can't just enjoy playing a game, go and join the retards on VNboards
Yes, it would be weally weally intewesting!
Especially what you would say when they zerked up with 5.5+spd weapons, haste and celerity and starting hitting for 1200+ every 1.5-2.0 seconds.
Seriously though, what does your continuing whining achieve? It's not like mythic read these boards, hell its not like mythic read any boards. You will change nothing, any group in any realm would be stupid to not use the best tools at hand and at the moment the savage is the best light tank.
So please, if you can't just enjoy playing a game, go and join the retards on VNboards