Should the FA Cup Winners get into the Champions League?(football)

[Thadius]

Mr Platini wants to give the Fa Cup winners the chance to play in the Champions League at the expense of one of the Top 4 clubs.

Naturally, these 4 clubs(Chelsea, Manchester, Arsenal and Liverpool) are moaning about this. But if you look at the league table now for the past 3-4 seasons, the last two in that list(Arsenal and liverpool) always finished 3rd and 4th. Do they play for that finish because they always emss up midseason?

I think its a brilliant idea, gives the teams outside that elite group to show their stuff (even if its the same usual suspects that win the FA Cup)

The FA Cup is (or should be), the biggest thing in English football, more than the Premiership(or should I say the Foreign Owners League)

Anyway, discuss!

 

[gohan]

no because the FA cup can be won by fluke, whereas palying for a top 4 spot show's consistancy, tho tbh the last well...... basicly 10 fa cups have been won by liv/arse/chel/man u so make no diff really


just googled it, last out of the top 4 to win was everton who beat man u in 1995

and the only final not to feature one of those four was back in 1991 when spurs won it v forrest so really not an issue to worry much about

 

[Vladamir]

Wasn't he wanting to do it for all domestic cups? (obv not carling cup etc).

It'll just weaken the competition tbh.

 

[Thadius]

no because the FA cup can be won by fluke, whereas palying for a top 4 spot show's consistancy, tho tbh the last well...... basicly 10 fa cups have been won by liv/arse/chel/man u so make no diff really


just googled it, last out of the top 4 to win was everton who beat man u in 1995

and the only final not to feature one of those four was back in 1991 when spurs won it v forrest so really not an issue to worry much about

Its a bit like saying Champions League final can be won by "fluke" too. Thats how football should be, Greece winning 2004 Championships was a fluke but it was a breathe of fresh air.

You mention Liverpool there, one of the most inconsistant teams in the Premier League. Thought they would lap it up, they are obviously a cup team!

 

[Litmus]

Hmm, i think its abit silly, just imagine if someone like Derby managed to win the FA and got relegated at the same time, a Championship team in the champions league? if that happened i really dont see how it could be called the champions league any more

 

[Jeremiah]

I think 4 teams in the CL from any one nation is a bit much as well. But its all for the money rather than the competition now. I think it should be all league champions get automatic place, then all 2nd place teams go through qualification. But we all know that wouldnt happen hehe =).

 

[soze]

No

The eliet four can be embaressed by teams in the champions league why should a team that could finish in the bottom half or even be in the Chamionship play in europes premier competition. They would not even qualify. I think thats what he wants 1 less serious English team dominating the CL.

Mind you it dose not matter i can't remember a time in the last 5 years a big 4 team have not won it.

I think 4 teams in the CL from any one nation is a bit much as well. But its all for the money rather than the competition now.

If you want more than 1 team from any country then England deserve 4 English teams. English teams have been in the final last 3 years in a row and last year 3 teams out of 4 in the semi final were English

 

[Corran]

Does not matter in the slightest to me. Just have a look at the teams that have won the FA cup in the past. To save you time I give you the list

1988 Wimbledon

1989 Liverpool

1990 Manchester United

1991 Tottenham Hotspur

1992 Liverpool

1993 Arsenal

1994 Manchester United

1995 Everton

1996 Manchester United

1997 Chelsea

1998 Arsenal

1999 Manchester United

2000 Chelsea

2001 Liverpool

2002 Arsenal

2003 Arsenal

2004 Manchester United

2005 Arsenal

2006 Liverpool

2007 Chelsea

You have to go back to 1995 before you find a time someone outside the current top 4 won it, and in the past 20 years only like 3 teams outside this top 4 have won it. Means that it make very little difference.
The only way it make a difference is how they will deal with the spot if the winner qualifies through the league. They could give it to the 4th place as normal (means no difference) or they could give it to the other finalist if they not qualified through the league (which could mean a top 4 club missing Champions league)

 

[Achilles]

What Soze says about the quality of the English league as a whole. I would say its the best league in the world. Furthermore one of Liverpool, Man U, Arsenal and Chelsea generally win the FA cup, so makes this sort of pointless. Platini doesnt have a valid reason for doing it. It cant be he wants to make the CL more competitive because teams like Millwall could have been in the CL 3 years a go if this had been introduced. The CL is not about giving the smaller teams a chance. Thats what the Uefa and Intoto cup is for.

 

[Lamp]

Villa 2....Chelsea 0

Don't know don't care...but LMAO at this result

BBC SPORT | Football | Premier League | Aston Villa 2-0 Chelsea

In your face Mourinho !

 

[Thadius]

But the FA Cup is the oldest cup competition in the world?

And its funny, most of you who say no are all supporters of the big 4

And the comment about teams in the CL who are crap and dont deserve to be there.

The two perenniel Greek teams who always are in it, the two Scottish "giants" who would be midtable at best in the Premiership, hell, Arsenal dont derve to be there this season, they were crap in the league last.

Real hope Man City and Newcastle gatecrash the CL this season and make teams like Liverpool, who always fall off near Christmas and Arsenal play better football. Should be a good year if that happens

 

[soze]

But the FA Cup is the oldest cup competition in the world?

And its funny, most of you who say no are all supporters of the big 4

And the comment about teams in the CL who are crap and dont deserve to be there.

The two perenniel Greek teams who always are in it, the two Scottish "giants" who would be midtable at best in the Premiership, hell, Arsenal dont derve to be there this season, they were crap in the league last.

Real hope Man City and Newcastle gatecrash the CL this season and make teams like Liverpool, who always fall off near Christmas and Arsenal play better football. Should be a good year if that happens

I say no not just as an Arsenal fan but what if Milwall Man U in the FA Cup and Milwall lose. Now because Man U are in the top 3 dose that mean we lose the 4th spot? I think it dose. If not dose that mean a team that did shit in the league and lost the FA Cup are in the Champions League its crap.

 

[Thadius]

I say no not just as an Arsenal fan but what if Milwall Man U in the FA Cup and Milwall lose. Now because Man U are in the top 3 dose that mean we lose the 4th spot? I think it dose. If not dose that mean a team that did shit in the league and lost the FA Cup are in the Champions League its crap.

No, i think if the winner of the cup already qualifies, that place gets reverted to 4th like the Premiershipm is now

 

[cHodAX]

Yep and the league cup winners as well, the champions league should only be for winners from the previous season. Even if that does mean my beloved United miss out.

 

[Thadius]

Yep and the league cup winners as well, the champions league should only be for winners from the previous season. Even if that does mean my beloved United miss out.

Hmm, the Champs League is the old Cup Winners Cup?

 

[Vladamir]

Super cup i think?

 

[MegaMaejter]

Voted Yes because I think more teams should take the cups serious and rewarding the winner with a free spot into the CL qualification rounds is a good treat.

 

[leviathane]

Voted no, yes yes i am a supporter of one of the top 4. But here's the thing like said earlier in the thread the champs league is like the cream of the crop when it comes to eu competition, and I myself like to see English teams competing with the best and actually doing very well. Taken english teams long enough to get to this current situation after they were thrown out of it, and I for one like how well we're doing. Therefor it should be reserved for the best 4 teams in the english leagues.

 

[Thadius]

Voted no, yes yes i am a supporter of one of the top 4. But here's the thing like said earlier in the thread the champs league is like the cream of the crop when it comes to eu competition, and I myself like to see English teams competing with the best and actually doing very well. Taken english teams long enough to get to this current situation after they were thrown out of it, and I for one like how well we're doing. Therefor it should be reserved for the best 4 teams in the english leagues.

Cream of the crop?

Then why have teams like Celtic, Rangers, Olmpycos, Besiktas. The list goes on and on.

 

[cHodAX]

Hmm, the Champs League is the old Cup Winners Cup?

Perhaps I wasn't clear. I firmly believe that the Champions League should only consist of the winners of each nations three domestic competitions from the previous season. If the senario arises where a team wins more than one of those domestic competitions then the remaining places should then be passed on to the second and even third place league teams if the need arises.

The Champions League as it stands rewards failure and mediocrity, any team that finishes fourth in thier own league doesn't deserve to be in the same competition as the champions of Europes top leagues, they haven't earnt that right. They belong in the UEFA cup.

The problem is with the current system is one of greed, it is all about the top clubs grabbing all the TV cash even when some of them have done nothing to deserve it. They hold the smaller countries back by giving the 5 'big' footballing nations extra places in the competition and then force the champions of smaller nations to jump through hoops by having to go through a qualifying system to have a chance at a place they have already earnt.

In short, the current system sucks and it needs to be scrapped. I know people will say that by losing the non-champions (Liverpool and Arsenal this season) will lower the quality of the competition but it will also create an even playing field for all the nations of Europe as well and sharing the money out much more evenly which is something that badly needs to be addressed. Did you know that those top 5 nations I mentioned before end up taking over 80% of the TV revenue even though they only account for less than 40% of the population of Europe? Where is the fairness in that?

 

[Thadius]

Perhaps I wasn't clear. I firmly believe that the Champions League should only consist of the winners of each nations three domestic competitions from the previous season. If the senario arises where a team wins more than one of those domestic competitions then the remaining places should then be passed on to the second and even third place league teams if the need arises.

The Champions League as it stands rewards failure and mediocrity, any team that finishes fourth in thier own league doesn't deserve to be in the same competition as the champions of Europes top leagues, they haven't earnt that right. They belong in the UEFA cup.

The problem is with the current system is one of greed, it is all about the top clubs grabbing all the TV cash even when some of them have done nothing to deserve it. They hold the smaller countries back by giving the 5 'big' footballing nations extra places in the competition and then force the champions of smaller nations to jump through hoops by having to go through a qualifying system to have a chance at a place they have already earnt.

In short, the current system sucks and it needs to be scrapped. I know people will say that by losing the non-champions (Liverpool and Arsenal this season) will lower the quality of the competition but it will also create an even playing field for all the nations of Europe as well and sharing the money out much more evenly which is something that badly needs to be addressed. Did you know that those top 5 nations I mentioned before end up taking over 80% of the TV revenue even though they only account for less than 40% of the population of Europe? Where is the fairness in that?

An example of this, the season Liverpool finished 5th and cried and whinged because they were the champs. They were calls for Everton to be dropped in favour of Liverpool. Where is the fairness in that?

 

[cHodAX]

An example of this, the season Liverpool finished 5th and cried and whinged because they were the champs. They were calls for Everton to be dropped in favour of Liverpool. Where is the fairness in that?

Well you have to look at it this way, Liverpool were useless that year in the league BUT they did win the champions league and so they had actually won something even if you want to argue the point that they shouldn't have been there in the first place. Regardless, they won. Everton on the other hand won nothing and honestly were worthy of nothing more than a UEFA spot for thier efforts. The thing is though according to the rules of the time Everton should have been allowed in and Liverpool should not, it pissed me off that they changed the rules because Liverpool are a massive club and so they had to make an exception. Would they have made the same exception or changed the rules if lets say.... Rosenberg had won the Champions League but not finished in a qualifying spot? Not bloody likely.

The sad fact is that the elite clubs have far to much influence (mine included) and it is killing football.

 

[Thadius]

The sad fact is that the elite clubs have far to much influence (mine included) and it is killing football.

Wonder if the G14 will threaten to boycott the event like they do everytime changes that will effect themselves are suggested.

The English Premier league is becoming like the Scottish Premier, and sad to say, that league is really shit to watch.

Granted, people say well the top 4 usually win the FA Cup so why change it. Well, it means one team gets to gatecrash the party(say Newcastle or Sunderland), the same way that Tottenham and Everton tried (and in Evertons case suceeded) to break into that elite group at the top of the league.

And finally, now that Wembley is finally built, would you rather see your club qualify for the Champions League on the road (say Derby), or in a packed stadium of 80,000 people cheering you on?

 

[soze]

The Man U fan is bang on correct Champions league should be a knock out cup for just the winners of every league not 2nd 3rd 4th.

That would then turn the Uefa into a good cup for the rest of the teams.

Wonder if the G14 will threaten to boycott the event like they do everytime changes that will effect themselves are suggested.

Funny thing is the big four or g14 will not need to get involved as the head bod at the fa stormed out of the meeting about this. It is in the FAs interest to have our best teams in the cup as well not just a lucky cup team.

 

[killerpen9uin]

Its a bit like saying Champions League final can be won by "fluke" too. Thats how football should be, Greece winning 2004 Championships was a fluke but it was a breathe of fresh air.

You mention Liverpool there, one of the most inconsistant teams in the Premier League. Thought they would lap it up, they are obviously a cup team!

Maybe you don't know football as well as you think you do

It's not down to fluke, it was down to good organisation in the defense and hard-working. I wouldn't call it a fluke - I'd just go as far to say that Greece weren't consistent enough to build on that.

Oh, and where are England in your European Champions Qualifying Group? Last time I saw Greece were top of theirs :worthy:

Edit: On topic, Platini is just jelous that English teams are dominating the CL and French teams are shite.

 

[Marc]

Does not matter in the slightest to me. Just have a look at the teams that have won the FA cup in the past. To save you time I give you the list

1988 Wimbledon

1989 Liverpool

1990 Manchester United

1991 Tottenham Hotspur

1992 Liverpool

1993 Arsenal

1994 Manchester United

1995 Everton

1996 Manchester United

1997 Chelsea

1998 Arsenal

1999 Manchester United

2000 Chelsea

2001 Liverpool

2002 Arsenal

2003 Arsenal

2004 Manchester United

2005 Arsenal

2006 Liverpool

2007 Chelsea

You have to go back to 1995 before you find a time someone outside the current top 4 won it, and in the past 20 years only like 3 teams outside this top 4 have won it. Means that it make very little difference.
The only way it make a difference is how they will deal with the spot if the winner qualifies through the league. They could give it to the 4th place as normal (means no difference) or they could give it to the other finalist if they not qualified through the league (which could mean a top 4 club missing Champions league)

But what if a team wins the fa cup and finishes in the top 3. That would mean the runner up in the FA cup would get into europe.

I think its horseshit and Platini is a wanker whos doesnt like english football full stop.

 

[Olgaline]

leave the CL as is imo, messing with it could cause a whole load of changes wich imo be fatal or the national leagues. Last time they talked about changing the CL system the Top14 euro teams threatend to join the "euro super leauge idea"

and yeah the CL used to be the CwC they changed it back in the late 80's early 90's aflik also if memory serves me right they changed the name to CL before they changed the system to include the top2 and later top 4 of the major leagues.

 

[Jeremiah]

I thought there was always one cup competition for league winners, one for Cup Winners and the standerd UEFA cup for teams in 2nd and 3rd place etc... then the CWC was merged with the UEFA cup and the European Championship Cup was changed into the CL?

 

[Olgaline]

I thought there was always one cup competition for league winners, one for Cup Winners and the standerd UEFA cup for teams in 2nd and 3rd place etc... then the CWC was merged with the UEFA cup and the European Championship Cup was changed into the CL?

yes this be true (i think)! my bad
but the CL used to have another name as well, guess thats where my confusion lay

 

[Olgaline]

tbh the only bit about the CL that I'm personaly critical of is this

An association's rank also determines the stage at which the clubs enter the competition. For example, the three highest-ranked associations have two places in the group stage (for champions and runners-up) and two in the third qualifying round (for third and fourth-placed teams), whereas the lowest-ranked associations have only one place in the first qualifying round for their champions. Nine highest-ranked associations have at least one automatic place in the group stage.

To me the name of the league has become misleading at best, and dont get me wrong, I'm all for having more than 1 team from the top leagues, but imo the number 2 from the respective top leagues should not resive an auto qual to the group stage, this should imo fall to the lower associations ranked league champions.