[SHAMAN] Shamans....Got any hints.

Lubbock

Fledgling Freddie
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So anyone got any hints for us in RvR, i just dont feel like i do much damage wise, healing is fine, but anyone found some smart tactics and tricks and such and wanna share em ?
 

Overdriven

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Well, looking at every time I go into a scenario, I end up killing like.. 20-30 times (supposedly, according to the stat thing) really use my focus damage and dots. Casted DD when you're not healing too.

But then, I'm only L8 and RR8 :(
 

Afran

Part of the furniture
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:) Should learn to play your char then
Really? Show me a shaman doing even compareable DPS to a DPS class. It's not even a worthy discussion.

They can, but not well.
True but then what do you call DPS? They can get by solo, but if you're spending more than 1% of your time in a scenario DPS'ing then you're doing something wrong.

To the OP: If you rolled a Shaman for doing any real damage, I'd seriously consider a reroll, the only damage you're going to do endgame is the odd DoT where you have a break in healing for long enough to DoT instead of stealing AP/silencing instead in that timeframe or when you use Gork Sez Stop on a newbie :)
 

Hawkwind

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They're not a DPS char but have high survivability thanks to the HOT's etc. I don't usually do much damage in scenarios less than 10k normally. But then my healing is in the 20K-35k range at level 14. Shamens role in RvR is more as an interrupter/healer. Only time I ever kill is when a witchunter jumps me. What pisses me off in scenarios is how clueless people are, running off around corners and complaining about not getting healed. Or people out of group shouting for heals.


You want a DPS caster role a Sorc, I continually top the scenario table on mine, destruction spec (AOE).
 

`mongoose

One of Freddy's beloved
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If you want out and out dps the shaman won't deliver it. They're not (in my experience) built around it.

I made the same mistake btw - in scenarios I found myself behaving like a DAOC Cave Shammy and wondering where my bolts were or my aoe dots ;)

I've since started exploring the other things that shammies get that make them if not "fight winners" certainly pita opponents.

Things like - Gettin Smarter or (my favourite) Yer not so bad are great at removing action points & intelligence from opposing players for brief periods. Nerfing bright wizard intelligence should always be a priority imo especially with their horrifically hard hitting dots.

Stacking hots on tanks is good too - bleed for me & a hot set on a friendly tank will help them survive the quite well against mixed opposition...

You're not (from what I've seen) going to be an amazing solo threat but then the shammy works best in groups and always has done imo. Buffing Attacks and debuffing opponents should keep you more than busy enough on the battlefield. This will be doubly so if you're also trying to heal glass cannons like sorcs or Meatshields.

If you get a spare moment - Yer a weakling is a good dd on enemy tanks - reducing their strength for 20 seconds as a side effect and bunch of waargh is always fun if your team are in the ascendancy and you can stand still for 6s and not need to heal them for this amount of time.

M
 

Lubbock

Fledgling Freddie
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Jan 22, 2004
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Aye i agree, i tried going DPS to start with and must admit that didnt end well.
BUt for specialization, would it be worth going for da green that gives AoE debuffs, that could perhaps be the Shamans force ?
 

`mongoose

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It might well be a good option. I'm currently trying out the gork spec line - mainly because I wanted to see what dps was like at higher lvls :)

Personally I suspect I'll respec to Mork or DaGreen once I've tried all three speclines out at 40.

M
 

Grimlorn

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Here's a tip a shaman in my guild was giving another shaman in my guild. He said that if you run out of action points in a fight after healing and everyone is at full, to not do any damage and just let your action bar recharge and by the time that happens there will definitely be someone to heal. So you'll have a full action bar for healing as opposed to an empty one because you ran out and tried doing damage instead of letting it fill up. You'll probably top the healing charts in scenarios by doing this.
 

Vintersorg

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True but then what do you call DPS? They can get by solo, but if you're spending more than 1% of your time in a scenario DPS'ing then you're doing something wrong.

To the OP: If you rolled a Shaman for doing any real damage, I'd seriously consider a reroll, the only damage you're going to do endgame is the odd DoT where you have a break in healing for long enough to DoT instead of stealing AP/silencing instead in that timeframe or when you use Gork Sez Stop on a newbie :)
If you're spending more than 1% of your time in a scenario DPS'ing, then you're playing the shaman right as you actually have to do damage to increase your healing.
RTFM.
 

Andrilyn

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Here's a tip a shaman in my guild was giving another shaman in my guild. He said that if you run out of action points in a fight after healing and everyone is at full, to not do any damage and just let your action bar recharge and by the time that happens there will definitely be someone to heal. So you'll have a full action bar for healing as opposed to an empty one because you ran out and tried doing damage instead of letting it fill up. You'll probably top the healing charts in scenarios by doing this.
Yer Not So Bad Ailment
Core Ability
40 Action Points 100 ft range
2s cast 20s cooldown
Gork's Waaagh! reduces cast time.
Steals 180 Action Points from your target over 9 seconds.
That combined with the healing tactic that restores 160 AP on direct heal crit should never allow the shaman to go out of AP even when you focus on the DPS a bit when your team is on the offence.
As a healer I found shamans have the best AP management in the game atm, played a 40 AM also and the 50% redux in AP doesn't even come close in most situations.

If you're spending more than 1% of your time in a scenario DPS'ing, then you're playing the shaman right as you actually have to do damage to increase your healing.
RTFM.
On paper yes, in reality? no.
While 1% might be a little steep (as the DoT that heals counts for both healing and damage) I think the better Mork specced shaman's out there won't DPS that much (other than the dot and as far as I've seen "Ere we go" doesn't count towards your own damage also).
Of course it depends on the situation like if your team is not taking damage you assist on the MT but other than that it's pointless to build your waargh or high magic to increase your heals.
The increase on the instant hot is way too low to justify the 5 points, the insta healing of the higher cast time spells is nice but to build up 5 points just to launch an insta big heal is not realistic as I can most of the time cast 2-3 big heals before I can get my 5 points up making it utterly pointless.

Personally I see the Waargh and High magic as a bonus you get at times but I would never focus on getting it high in competitive PvP if your main goal is being the healer anyway.
 

Iceforge

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okay, I feel I can give some advice on how to play a shaman in RvR.

I got a system going and it is working exceptional fine when I play in RvR; Case in point: Yesterday I did around 10 Tier2 scenario's (Mourkain).
1 time I ended up in top 10, about place 8, not 100% sure of renown earned
9 times I ended up top 3, usually 2 or 1st place; out of those 9 times, 5 of them was as number 1 renown earner.

Total healing was about the same; But I focus on renown earn; Why? Well, in Tier 2, if I end up 1st place and destruction side wins the scenario, then I get 600 bonus renown and 7000 experience (iirc) on top of the 600-1.000 renown and 7.000-10.000 experience I made from the fight.

How to do it:

Okay, first off, lets bust some myths and misconceptions some shamans have about how to play their class:

Myth 1:
To maximize my healing pr. second (HPS) I need to do DPS and build up Waagh.

No you don't. Why this isn't the case:
Take your basic healing spell, which should be "Ey, Quit Bleedin" (instant cast Heal over Time (HoT)
Mine currently works like this:
0 Waagh = 173 hp healed periodically
5 Waagh = 203 hp healed periodically
30 hp increase compared to 173 = 17,5% HPS increase
To built up 5 waagh, you need 5 casts with Global Cooldown (GCD) being 1,5 seconds that is 7.5 seconds.
5 damage spells followed by instant HoT = 203 hp healed periodically
6 castings of instant HoT which takes the same time = 6 x 173 hp healed periodically = 1038 hp healed periodically, or a 411% increase compared to if you bothered building up Waagh.

Myth 2:
I should only heal my group!

NO! This cannot be stressed enough; If you only heal your group, then destruction is going to loose the scenario and you will NOT make much renown! This is NOT DAoC, this is NOT a group vs group game, this is a REALM vs. REALM game, heal everybody from your realm in sight or you will NEVER be a successfull shaman in scenarios. No discussion here.

Myth 3.
Then I should focus equally on everybody;

NO! Focus on those in your group that needs special attention, but focus doesn't mean you are the exclusively for them.



How to play the shaman:

You got to lay back; You are not supposed to be running to the front of the line; Do not stay in the far back through as anyone trying to flank will smash you in seconds if they get you alone; Hang out with the casters who are nuking; That way you are near a shitload of DPS in case someone comes to jump you, or able to heal if someone tries to jump them.
Try staying in movement as much as possible; Your main heal is instant cast and you don't need to stop, sometimes you will need to cast Gork will Fix it (quick cast heal with HoT) and some offense (more later), but that is the exceptions to the rule.

Now, which spells to use.

My hotbar when I do RvR looks like this:

1 - Bleed Fer' Me (instant DoT + HoT)
2 - Bunch o'Waagh (focus DPS
3 - Don' Feel Nuthin (instant barrier)
4 - Ey, Quit Bleedin (Instant HoT)
5 - Bigger, Better An' Greener (Slow cast big heal)
6 - Gork'll fix it (quick heal + HoT)
7 - 'Ere We Go! (group melee damage add)
8 - Yet Not So Bad (AP drain)
9 - Gedup! (rezz)
10 - Mork's Buffer (group resistance buff)
+ - Flee

Okay, now, the order is quite unimportant; I got used to playing with them in that position, so they are staying put (for now), althrough I am using 3, 4, 6 and 8 the most.

As I said earlier, cast "Ey, Quit bleedin" all the time on people around you with healthbars (if you don't, switch it so healthbars only show on damaged people, makes it much easier to find a target to heal)

Now, this spends my AP and it builds up Waagh for offense, so I get a offensive target and cast "Yet Not So bad" as often as that spell is ready, just to keep my supply of AP up for casting more heals; While you got an offensive target, you might consider throwing in "Bleed Fer' Me", which will DoT your offensive target and heal your defensive target for the damage done; not that effective, so don't bother doing it all the time.

If someone is getting the beating stick by the enemy, 1 HoT is not going to make a big difference, so give them instant HoT with "Ey, quit bleedin" and then a heal + HoT with "Gork'll Fix it", if they are really getting beat on badly, give them barrier to absorb it; If they outside group, give yourself barrier and give them a big heal; Barrier prevents you from being set back a lot constantly, as "Bigger, Better An' Greener" is a fragile spell.

Now, thats the basics of it; A bit of offense has to be done once in a while; For this I use Bunch o' Waagh and MORALS.

My rank 1 moral is Steal Life, I throw that on low health people running away OR on people trying to flank; Steal Life heals me and damage them, which is great, add a Bunch O'Waagh and some HoT's on yourself, and they are in for a tough battle if you are 1 on 1, often making people run off before your friends can arrive, which is basicly all you need; Killing is not your goal, if it is, reroll to another class; Your goal is to heal as much as possible and die as little as possible.

Now, how to work in the battlefield with other classes:

Other Shamans:
Give them heals too! Shamans work with HoTs, that is heal over TIME, meaning if they are getting spike damage, they need help from others as time is short; HoTs stack when coming from different shamans, so give them your HoT and a Gork'll Fix it when they are in trouble. 90% of all shamans does not heal other shamans, which is a big mistake; It seems the mentality is that "they can heal themselves, so not my problem"

Zealot/DoK's
These guys needs healing too! Don't do the mentality of them not being your problem! Your problem on the battlefield is anybody who got hurt! Give them the love when they need it, but they do not need special attention.

Tanks/melee DPS (Maruder/Chosen/Witch Elf/Black Orc)
Heal tanks who are in view; A group tank who runs over behind a building DESERVES to die; Don't run after them if that puts you in harms way; Don't neglect them either, but if they are out of sight, they are NOT your problem. Time and time again I see shamans running to the front to heal those lone charging tanks, only to see them seconds later with a train of enemy DPS on their back and then they end up dead on the ground; You do NOT want to die. If the tank is in sight, make sure to give him both a instant HoT and Gork'll Fix It, tanks got loads of HP and needs loads of healing.

Magus/Squid Herder
Give them heals when they need it, remember to pay attention to ranged DPS as they can peel off nasty stuff that attacks you like Witch Hunters

Sorcerers
Sorcerers gets their own catagory due to them being your primary heal targets; Yeah, thats right, PRIMARY heal target.
Why?
Dark Magic has backlash which damage the caster; So any sorcerer who is in your group needs to have a HoT on them from the second the scenario starts until the scenario ends; Let them know you will keep them healed and they will build up Dark Magic to 100 and nuke away for damage you would not belive;
Treath Sorcerers outside of group like you do other ranged DPS through; Them being able to nuke hard is not earning you renown, but that sorcerer in your group who is nuking away for several thousand damage is earning you renown, so keep him alive, HoT, Gork'll Fix It, Barrier, Bigger, Better An' Greener, whatever you have to do to make the sorcerer nuke like there is no tomorrow.
Case In Point; If you get to group with a good sorcerer who takes advantage of this, you will easily end up with you and the sorcerer taking the 2 top spots as renown earner (done that a few times), pulling everybody else in your group up with you as well. So if a tank in the group whines about you focusing on the sorcerer in the group, tell him to stop whining and start enjoying the free renown he is getting, for he will be getting loads of them.

I think that covered all I had to say from my experience playing in Tier 2... I know there is room for improvements in my way of playing and that it is not perfect, but it sure seems to beat anything else I've seen shamans doing
 

`mongoose

One of Freddy's beloved
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great guide iceforge.

I often throw in Yer not so smart on casters too - just to drop the int on bright wizards.

I also often steal AP from enemy priests/ arch mages - they're my primary target for that as it nerfs their ability to heal their tanks etc..

M
 

Iceforge

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Forgot to mention, when casting "Yet Not So Bad", do NOT aim for a target which got a train on them; Aim for a target which will likely stay alive for the duration of your spell; Your target dying = end of your AP supply.
 

twix112

Fledgling Freddie
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Great guide Iceforge!
Almost so I got curious to try out a shammy.... =) But will stick with my DoK... Guess the same principles applies there...
 
F

Forest

Guest
Oh rly

shaman cant dps
Shamans can do relativly nice dps if they like.

Playing a Rank 20 shamie myself and I can quite easy make around 60-80k dmg in a temple scenario.
But then again i can also just swap some gear around and make just as mutch healing.

Only requermant to dps is you cba healing while doing it =P.
I agree its a healer class primarly and i play it as one when I play with friends but when I just join a random group i play as solo player easily getting 20k+ xp 1k+ renown / run.

So for all who says than shamans can't dps LEARN YOUR CLASS! and be creative.
 

Eternalist

Regular Freddie
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i think its not shaman cant dps, more like shaman shouldnt dps. i know my class, and i know if i dont heal ppl die, which results in us losing the scenario. leave the dps to the dps classes.
 

Overdriven

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Afran: I may have used the wrong words in my first reponce. I meant the way as in, their DPS is ENOUGH for them. Have to "DPS" to make healing easier, so their DPS isn't totally useless (love the focus DD, is fun way to keep people quiet)

Sorry for the wrong context.

ALSO! Yes :( Cave shammy keeps being annoying. I keep wondering my my insta AoE is :I
 

Afran

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Afran: I may have used the wrong words in my first reponce. I meant the way as in, their DPS is ENOUGH for them. Have to "DPS" to make healing easier, so their DPS isn't totally useless (love the focus DD, is fun way to keep people quiet)

Sorry for the wrong context.

ALSO! Yes :( Cave shammy keeps being annoying. I keep wondering my my insta AoE is :I
DPS'ing for better heals actually works out at less HPS ^^
 

Eternalist

Regular Freddie
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its ok in a small group where not much healing is needed or when you're not the main healer as the built up waagh reduces the cast time of your heals, 5 waagh making the 3 sec heal an instant cast or an instant rez. it is however not something you should rely on and doest really work out well in rvr
 

Hawkwind

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Shamans can do relativly nice dps if they like.

Playing a Rank 20 shamie myself and I can quite easy make around 60-80k dmg in a temple scenario.
But then again i can also just swap some gear around and make just as mutch healing.

Only requermant to dps is you cba healing while doing it =P.
I agree its a healer class primarly and i play it as one when I play with friends but when I just join a random group i play as solo player easily getting 20k+ xp 1k+ renown / run.

So for all who says than shamans can't dps LEARN YOUR CLASS! and be creative.
Yeah Shamens can DPS a bit and kill but just about every scenario I've ever been in there are too few Desctruction Healers. So I always end up as primary or secondary healer. Most Scenarios I do only 10-15k dmg and 30k + healing.

Great guide Ice and agree with everything in it.
 

charl8tan

Fledgling Freddie
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As a healer I found shamans have the best AP management in the game atm, played a 40 AM also and the 50% redux in AP doesn't even come close in most situations.
That would be because the 50% reduced AP cost tactic doesn't actually work. Yes you get the buff icon up, but no, it doesn't affect the cost of your spells.

Apologies for side-tracking a Shaman thread a little there, just think it is relevant in a comparison between the two classes. I personally think the Shaman comes out on top between them due to this tactic not working as well as a few other "slightly" annoying issues that differ between the two classes.
 

charl8tan

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Oh, and also that is a very nice guide Iceforge, the majority of which I sincerely would pray for Order AM's reading as it is (mostly) equally applicable.
 

Andrilyn

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That would be because the 50% reduced AP cost tactic doesn't actually work. Yes you get the buff icon up, but no, it doesn't affect the cost of your spells.

Apologies for side-tracking a Shaman thread a little there, just think it is relevant in a comparison between the two classes. I personally think the Shaman comes out on top between them due to this tactic not working as well as a few other "slightly" annoying issues that differ between the two classes.
I know it didn't work (in the beta anyway) but that doesn't take away a Shaman will still have a better AP management even after they fix that tactic.
With the right gear/renown bonusses and tactics (30%'ish heal crit) a Shaman can't theoretically go oom, a 50% AP redux is nice but doesn't allow you to not go oom it just slows the effect.
I played a 40 AM and always had to carry and mass use AP pots (I know the tactic would reduce the AP cost would decrease the pot usage but it wouldn't remove it) as a Shaman I don't recall ever having to use an AP pot yet.
This could be the case that there's just not many AM's draining atm, either that or the gfx on their drains is bugged.
 

charl8tan

Fledgling Freddie
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We have no AP Drain sadly....but, if Wild Healing (the 50% AP reduction) actually worked, and Restorative Burst functioned whilst casting (currently the AP restored from it only does so if you do not cast anything) AM's would never run out of AP, and most likely would be sitting on max AP nearly all the time.

The sad thing is I think something else needs to be changed in addition to fixing these tactics in order for the AM to be as "good" as a Shaman, but I couldn't say what until these are working properly (or at least Wild Healing if Restorative Burst is working as intended).

Instead of an AP Drain we have "Radiant Gaze" - a dot (craptastic damage) that also reduces the targets damage and crit change by 5%.
 

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