Shamans and RvR (only particularly relevant to mids)

[Demrog]

I have a question for those people who play a Shaman in RvR (not bots - actual participating shaman) and a seperate one for those that don't.

For the ones that do, what do you usually find your role to be in RvR? Are you primarily a healer? a "Res Machine"? Combattant/Damage dealer?

For those who don't play a shaman, what do you see a shamans primary role to be?

The reason I ask is that I took one of my shaman into Thid the other day (I know Thid isnt an accurate reflection of "Real RvR" but I want to see if the situation is the same at higher levels), and there were tears, teddies and dummies all over the place when somsone didnt get healed by myself and another shaman within a microsecond of taking damage.

Speaking for myself, I specced higher in cave so I could do damage (I just love those AE Dots) and plan on continuing to having a final spec of 41 cave 32 aug and 14 mend - not great for healing.

What I am dreading happening is that I (finally) get my shaman into Odins/Emain or wherever hoping to dish out some DOTs/Damage etc and suddenly find that all my power is used healing/ressing and having people cry at me when I don't do what they expect of me.

Was th situation in Thid just a one off or is this something all shaman have to deal with all the time?

 

[old.Downanael]

Well on the "real" RvR shammys heal very very very very rare

Usually they tease me with their dots

 

[Damon_D]

Oye depends alot on the team build m8.. if we have healer CC, I hang back heal a little , a little root to peel casters , a dot to harras a healer/caster combined with tactical use of disease ( even a designated healer has a hard time keeping a pbaoe'r who is diseased alive ) If we have no realy healer cc ( good aoe mezz and singel target mezz ) I try to aoe root and then harras with aoe disease to stop casters from casting and mess up the healers healing , combined with a dot here and there...I hardly use the aoe dot...only in mg stand off's and keep situations realy.. and of course when the the root breaks and they still immune to a new one.. aoe dot and aoe disease...I dont heal much unless we dont have a healer, he does it so much better than me.. When I heal its emergency heals to keep a healer or caster alive until he can be " peeled " either by a mezz/stun or by getting his attacker kill'd.. and ofcourse our lousy frig ( for 14 mend u aint getting much ) for when we rest up...Hope this is of any use at all...

 

[mavericky]

With my Shammy I do very similar to Damon, I try as much as possible to interupt the enemy's danger people, CC and nukers primarily. Also if one of our tanks in engaged with theirs then I'll try to Dot/disease to assist. In addition I'll try and help the healer out, try and CC if they are unmezzable. I think shammys have great utility in RvR, but often poor survival as weak defence/lack of instants, we go down almost as quickly as casters

 

[Urgat Rip-Eye]

Aye.

'Lo mate

Damon's post is good.

Still only 45 ATM, but generally - i find myself healing in RvR very rarely.

It's worth noting, mentioning to your group that your heals are unreliable is always wise.

And again, agreeing with damon... Unless you have a lack of CC in your force - the ae DOT is rarely used. (away from keep situations at least)

In recent fights with Kal's Main RvR group, I find my main roles are...

1 - Try and control enemy players that aren't mezzed for whatever reason, By generally spamming AE root till i have got all of em.

2 - Supporting allies in fights, By deseasing/Dotting their opponents.

3 - Picking on casters to interupt, By DOTting/deseasing/ rootspaming to interupt, till a tank can get to em

4 - Aiding the main healer when he is in trouble. By rooting his attackers - the number of times i have vined an enemy who was beating on our healer, enabeling him to move away and mezz/stun is beyond counting.


With these in mind, i always stick within sight of the main healer - and try to stay out of the way so i can disrupt/harass targets that need the "treatment"

 

[scarffs]

Same here, you buff the group up, throw some roots to ppl who resisted mezz or who purge, dots to aid tanks and interrupt casters, and in gate standoffs or keeptakes/defences aoe away.
I'm also 41/32/14 and its the best template imo, good cave and the much needed grp end + nice buffs. Heal sux, but shammy mend line sux so thats normal.

 

[Turamber]

Originally posted by Demrog
there were tears, teddies and dummies all over the place when somsone didnt get healed by myself and another shaman within a microsecond of taking damage.

I love that expression!!! Can I use it, or do you have it copyrighted?


Oh ... and tho saying this from a non-Midgardian point of view ... Shaman's look like a -lot- of fun to play. However, like all hybrid classes, they probably take time to learn how to play - and even when played very well they will not be as effective as a pure healer/crowd controller/caster.

Why not up cave to the max tho? Matter cabs with 46 matter can wipe out full groups in keep defences, but shamans with the lower AE dot ... okay its nasty, but it's not going to kill any yellow cons this year.

 

[Demrog]

heh yeah you can use it

I am glad i asked the question now as the answers were pretty much what I was hoping to hear.

As for not taking cave all the way... 32 aug is just too useful not to have, and 41 cave gets me the best bolt and direct damage spells and 2nd best from all the other spells. The 14 mend....? well the points have to go somewhere, right?

Actually I would ideally like to have mend at 16 but i just dont have enough points.

 

[Turamber]

Originally posted by Demrog
41 cave gets me the best bolt

Sorry, just the idea of someone thinking a bolt was actually useful...

 

[j000 d000d]

End Regen, AE Disease, and some heals.

 

[Cami]

Re: Re: Shamans and RvR (only particularly relevant to mids)

Originally posted by Turamber
Why not up cave to the max tho? Matter cabs with 46 matter can wipe out full groups in keep defences, but shamans with the lower AE dot ... okay its nasty, but it's not going to kill any yellow cons this year.

My shammy have 46 cave, and is pretty nasty in keepdefences, but in groups in general im pretty gimped according to some people since i dont have permasprint and the best buffs.

 

[AzuratMinimus]

Originally posted by Teador
End Regen, AE Disease, and some heals.

Use ichor also and perhaps if healing isn´t that needed use a few single dots.

 

[marathor]

Well healers and shamans are both equally hard to play in rvr. Play for long that is. Try telling someone that Ur a cave spec and all U get is: "So? Heal ffs!" Hehe, not fun even its rare.

Both are revarding to play in a good group. All different specs are usefull for different things. Very seldom now I even think of bringing my healer out to random groups... if I even can get 1 that is.

I hope I have the stomach to farm my shammy to 50 to try out more rvr with it (47 atm). And Im going for 37aug 26mend 29cave. Thats capped buffs with RAs (for now atleast), Heals for 350 and gets the 3rd last ae dot and the dot differance drops a bit. Then again its for farming.

Nothing really to add to Urgat's comment as that sums the rvr pretty well. And plz if theres no cc in try to AE Disease the enemies and all healing classes spammin spread heal will hate U forever.(My healers manapool is gone after hitting spread 6 times in a row with lowest spread.)

And for thid. As full cave that will be the most fun U will ever have for 2 evenings... then you get kicked out for exeeding the rp cap.

 

[Cami]

Originally posted by marathor
And for thid. As full cave that will be the most fun U will ever have for 2 evenings... then you get kicked out for exeeding the rp cap.

Youp, was there until cap, went 4 times in total i think, ae dot owns all of them, soloing stealthers and tanks, even a coupple of casters (nerf necros ) with dot and end regen

Kinda regret i made a full sc'd suit for her capping all stats and resists, hardly used it until i was kicked out

 

[Cush]

spec should be 42 aug 33 mend imo

Heal and disease, Root tanks that use purge from mezz. And after that you tend not to have much time over for else

 

[klavrynd]

do whatever cushy says, best shammy ingame imo

Shammy are doomed to be pseudo-buffbots which is a shame, but nevertheless one of the key-elements in a good-balanced or just any rvr team. (try playing with styles that hog 20% end without end regen)

ps : mach 6 rocks

 

[Damon_D]

I would consider Cush's spec...if they someday fix'd our mend line as is it suck's...And I will hate to give up my aoe's...Mach 6 ..well use one lousy rp on LW and you have it with 32 aug

 

[old.Mu.]

I'm specced 38/27/27, Aug/Mend/Cave. I tend to be primary healer in the majority of groups I get into, simply because there aren't a lot of active healers around I've found. And those healers that are around usually heal for less than me anyway. That's ok, though, because I rolled this character to buff people up and keep them alive. I root people trying to run away, and I disease mainly to interrupt and annoy. I also single-target DoT anybody who is running away and has root immunity But I enjoy the healing aspect of RvR quite a lot, in fact it's the thing I enjoy the most in RvR. I constantly query every single Mid I pass, and if they aren't on full health/are currently losing health, then I will heal them. I don't see why you shouldn't. It doesn't matter that you only have 1 point in Mend, you have the ability to heal people so you should do it whenever you can. That unspecced, high-variance heal that lands for 81 may not mean a lot to you, but it can often mean the difference between life and death for a poor troll.

Well, that's the way I look at it anyway. Far too often I watch other shaman chaincasting their AE DoT, seemingly trying to get every single person in the zone with a crit, whilst I play guessing games and try to keep 7 other complete strangers alive, fully aware that they are all going to die and I have no chance of saving them. Now, fair enough, if you roll a shaman just to DoT; ok, go ahead. But if you never heal (I'm sure you do heal, and I apologise for how condescending this is beginning to sound, it isn't directed at anyone personally) then I think you deserve to be moaned at.

That's how I view it anyway. Have fun DoTing. I know full well that AE DoT and AE Disease is an absolutely horrible combination to have to deal with. I'm fully aware that cave shaman are RP machines and have the ability, at least, to rack up enormous killspam. And good for you, have fun doing it.

Just look at the mini-window from time-to-time, eh?

Like I said, not aimed at individuals. I know some cave shaman who do look after their groups. But I also know some who don't. My advice is to have fun, but help other people out as well.

 

[lok]

Originally posted by klavrynd
do whatever cushy says, best shammy ingame imo

bah not me?

If seriously shammys spec depends from group.
If u r in kick ass group (like mine ) 37aug/39cave spec is the best imo, coz good group must have 2 healers. In that way my heals dont realy needed. I have many things to do like disease, root and ofcourse spam dot/ae dot to interrupt healers/casters

 

[klavrynd]

how am i sposed to know if you never get me in your group ~~

 

[zapzap]

If u r in kick ass group (like mine ) 37aug/39cave spec is the best imo, coz good group must have 2 healers. In that way my heals dont realy needed. I have many things to do like disease, root and ofcourse spam dot/ae dot to interrupt healers/casters
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Yes a pac/mend and a mend/aug healer but when sos is up u need to out heal that means all 3 seers healing.


Zapsis rr7 1110 alchemist
Zapsi rr6
Careless rr 5l2 press moc press pruge find the wanna be hib button and pbae

 

[thorungla]

Split aug cave spec myself. I personally find the DOT's a little low on damage, and the occasioans I get to use an AE are so rare its not even on my main QB, this is because 99% of my rvr is open field combat. Another point of note is that the Ichor RA, is my primary CC due to it being insta cast and on a relatively low 15 min timer. Heres a breakdown of my spec line usage.

Aug: In a full group I'd expect their to be a healer and so only my spec buffs are cast. And of course the indispensible group end regen and resists

Mend: I do throw the occasional heal, however at low spec the results are currently not worth the pow consumption. Rez is of course used even tho its a ghetto rez, still gets the group back on its feet and off somewhere safe to rest and rebuff.

Cave: Occasional use of AE/single root, to help pick off anyone missed by the healers. Lots and lots of AE disease, this does not break mez and is great to cast imediately after the initial CC. Never underestimate the power of disease. A few single line DOT's to hassle people as the real casters and melee do their job.

I am often seen running about on permasprint to avoid melee, throwing in the occasional disease and DOT.

As soon as respec stones are ingame and one finds its way to me, I shall respec to 38/38 aug and mend. Reason for this is I would feel more useful throwing a few more heals in battle, especially group friggs. The loss of cave will only mean I lose AE root and DOT'ing skills (The uber AE disease is baseline so no spec needed) which I would happily exchange for what I beleive would be a far more useful shaman to any group.

 

[Urgat Rip-Eye]

Umm

Lots and lots of AE disease, this does not break mez

Umm, yes. Yes it does break mezz. Though it does not break a root.

 

[chi_]

If I ever get my 14 shammy to 50 I would see it as primarily a damage-dealing character with some backup heal capabilities, and good buffing skills.

Disease/Root/Dot would obviously be used the most

Timer should be taken off DD imo..a 'nuke' with a 20 second timer?

 

[Cush]

Shamans are support chars.. If ppl want to be a nuker why dont they go and make them self a Darkness runie instead?

 

[Biermann]

My shammy is specced:
42aug (for capped buffs incl pie, end regen5 and some nice resistsbuffs)
26mend (for groupfrigg and decent heals)
21cave (for an ok single dot and an ae dot for rp farms in keepdef)

I like this spec alot and in rvr im healing alot when im not tossing ae disease and some singledots.

 

[eynar]

Personally I don't think it's worth speccing augmentation all the way to 42, cuz the only difference is the last end regen (second to last spec buffs get you to cap anyway). Dunno how many times I've said this already, but people should start getting Long Wind 1 ASAP FFS! It costs only one lousy point, but supplies you with perma sprint in combination with end regen 4, so well worth it if you ask me. You can't expect shamans to give up like 200 spec points for something which can be attained by spending a single realm skill point. Tormax spec is 38 aug, 27 mending and 27 cave, but if he still had a respec available I'd prolly go for something like 38 aug, 7 mending and 37 cave. The reason for this is simple: the only "usefull" spell in the mending line are friggs, which don't turn out to be that useful at higher levels anyway, only good to pl alts. Besides that, the last baseline heal heals for 231hp and has 2,75 sec casting time, while the spec heal you get at 33 mending heals for 307hp and has 3,25 sec cast time. Dunno, but this isn't worth spending all those points on imho. The extra points in cave will get you the 2nd to last ae dot, bolt, DD, insta disease etc, and your ae root is a touch higher level, so less resists. Admitted, your heals won"t heal that much, but with some RA's this can be compensated for easily. (Tormax heals well over 300hp with his baseline heal and mast of healing 2.)

Anyway, to the point now
When I play Tormax I heal any team mates in troubles frequently. Besides that, you can root anyone who purges mezz and assist your tanks with single target dot's and diseases. Getting Ichor as a shammy is also a must imo, to compensate for their lack of insta's or quickcast. (Gifv shaman quickcast btw!)

 

[eynar]

Re: Umm

Originally posted by Urgat Rip-Eye
Umm, yes. Yes it does break mezz. Though it does not break a root.

No it doesn't...I tested this extensively some time ago, and mezz was never broken by disease...

 

[scarffs]

argh...shall test it again, but it did break when i did it...
to be continued...

 

[zapzap]

Most healers will have a 313 hp heal cast time 3.31 as there big heal or A baseline mend 231 hp heal cast time 2.75

Shammy with 33 mend will have a 307 hp heal cast time 3.25
the baseline heal a baseline mend 231 hp cast time 2.75.

Some healers will have a 419 hp heal but few.

Healers have instean heals but to play shammy and think no mend is needed is wrong imo.

Zapsi.